Re: what bottom bracket and gear mech for latest project..

On 13/5/05 9:46 am, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

Deraileurs fail in two ways:

Three ways:

Quoted message said:

they get bent, and the pivots get sloppy.

And they sieze up or fragment. This is usually terminal.

Quoted message said:

If the pivots are sloppy the deraileur is a write off. If the mechanism
is bent it may be hard to straighten but will work fine if
straightened. If it's just cruddy and filthy it will clean up overnight
in a bath of parafin, followed by the gently application of a
toothbrush (but do remember to relubricate it afterwards). The jockey
wheels can be replaced cheaply if worn.

In most cases. Some derailleurs have non-standard jockey wheels that are a
pig to get replacements for (SRAM springs to mind).

Obviously a front derailleur doesn't have jockey wheels to worry about. I
would have had a spare in the bits box but donated it all to the Bike
Station.

I presume you need a BB of the appropriate width and a triple-compatible
front mech, band on narrow (28ish mm). Your existing rear mech, if it works
and isn't a stupidly short cage should work fine with a triple.

Front mechs are either top pull (most MTB), bottom pull (most road) or both.
For a ladies frame you will need a bottom pull front mech. These are cheap -
not much more than a tenner.

Another great investment is a child seat. With appropriate care you can also
get a rear propstand (get one that clamps by the rear axle) that will be
able to suport the bike with the child in the child seat. another option is
a trailer that can also be a pushchair.

...d

David Martin said:

On 13/5/05 9:46 am, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

Deraileurs fail in two ways:

Three ways:

Quoted message said:

they get bent, and the pivots get sloppy.

And they sieze up or fragment. This is usually terminal.

That's four ways. "Dérailleurs fails in four ways, they..."

<cue Monty Python regurgitation>

Colin

On 13/5/05 10:34 am, in article [email hidden], "Colin

Blackburn said:

David Martin said:

On 13/5/05 9:46 am, in article
[email hidden], "Simon Brooke"

Quoted message said:

Deraileurs fail in two ways:

Three ways:

Quoted message said:

they get bent, and the pivots get sloppy.

And they sieze up or fragment. This is usually terminal.

That's four ways. "Dérailleurs fails in four ways, they..."

When they haven't been stolen first. Damn. Make that five ways..

...d

My exisiting rear mech is a really knackered shimano SIS. I'd rather
replace it really.
Here the frame http://www.iknowthe.net/bike/

If I have a triple up front and 5 sprockets on my hub, that make 15
gears - what mech should I be looking for. The Triple is Shimano, the
downshifters suntour - what should I look for in terms of gears on the
mech - (I'm thinking ebay for used deals at the mo 🙂

Thanks a lot,

Emma

On 13/5/05 12:11 pm, in article
[email hidden], "emma"

Quoted message said:

My exisiting rear mech is a really knackered shimano SIS. I'd rather
replace it really.
Here the frame http://www.iknowthe.net/bike/

If I have a triple up front and 5 sprockets on my hub, that make 15
gears - what mech should I be looking for. The Triple is Shimano, the
downshifters suntour - what should I look for in terms of gears on the
mech - (I'm thinking ebay for used deals at the mo 🙂

Doesn't matter. The control of the number of gears is down to the levers,
not the mech. Modern 9-speed will only take a narrow chain which could be
problematic on 5 speed so get a 7 or 8 speed with a medium or long cage.

I thought you were getting nice shiny new wheels for the tourer? If so then
get at least an 8-speed cassette hub and cold set teh frame as necessary..

Other things to check:
1. the OLN distance (over lock nut) for the rear hub, ie how far it is
across the inside of the rear forks. I would expect it to be 120 or 126. 126
will take a 7-speed freewheel with no worries. 120 will be a bit tight but
could be sprung, though you would probably have to change the rear axle. In
any case a 120 will take a 6-speed block.

2. Are your levers indexed? If so, that will determine the number of gears
you get at the back.

So what you need is:

Front mech: cheap is TY22. 28.6 top swing bottom pull. 7.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Front&ProdID=5110000447
&UberCat=0

Better is the Deore M511 21.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Front&ProdID=5360012899
&UberCat=0

Freewheel: HG37 or HG22 should do fine. 14.99

Rear mech (if you really want to change it): ANy non nine-speed should do as
long as it is not 'short cage' (eg not road double)
The Acera is 17.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Rear&ProdID=4000000782&
UberCat=0

Gear levers: Getting harder to find and you probably don't want to shell out
for STI.
Can only see up to 6spd downtube levers there (TY20) so go for the 6-speed
freewheel if you go that route, or put the front mech lever on the downtube
and a 7-speed thumbshifter on the bars.
A good source of these is peoples bits boxes. Someone may have some to go
for a nominal price.

Add cables/chain and you are looking at 40-60 pounds to get on the road.
Plus the bottom bracket (10-20GBP), tools and so on.

...d

emma said:

My exisiting rear mech is a really knackered shimano SIS. I'd rather
replace it really.
Here the frame http://www.iknowthe.net/bike/

Looks like you got a good deal for 20 quid. Raleigh Royales (and the
related Randonneur) were nice bikes in their time, and the 531 frames
are still very worthwhile.

That should build up into a lovely bike that will last you donkeys
years if you choose to keep it. It would come up a treat with a
respray.

It makes me really happy seeing these kind of bikes/frames being given
new life. I want to come around with some spanners and help, hehe.

Quoted message said:

If I have a triple up front and 5 sprockets on my hub, that make 15
gears - what mech should I be looking for. The Triple is Shimano, the
downshifters suntour - what should I look for in terms of gears on the
mech - (I'm thinking ebay for used deals at the mo 🙂

As others have said, if you are going to be using friction shifters
instead of indexed, then you can use almost any good condition rear
derailleur.

Friction shifters move smoothly through their full range of motion, so
you yourself manually move the rear mech up and down the rear gear
cluster. Index shifters move in small, clicky, notches; one step at a
time. Each notch produces exactly the right amount of cable movement
to shift the rear mech one gear position up or down the matched rear
cluster.

I would expect the Suntour donwtube levers to be friction shifters,
have a play with them to confirm this. Are they smooth, or clicky? 🙂

In friction mode any derailleur will play happily with them, the only
thing you need to avoid is one of the current, very short road
mech's. You intend to run a triple front chainset, and this requires
the mech to have a certain amount of capacity in order to cope with
chain slack as you shift between your high and low gear combinations.

So, if you are running friction shifters (which I think your Suntours
will be) then any good condition, medium to long cage rear mech should
do you just fine.

Err, just in case.. the "cage" is the part of the rear mech that
hangs vertically downwards, holding the two jockey wheels and the
chain threaded between them.You can see the difference in rear mech
cage lengths by looking at the pictures on the Shimano, or Campag
sites, or an online shop.

"Bob"

--

Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

David Martin said:

On 13/5/05 12:11 pm, in article
[email hidden], "emma"

Quoted message said:

My exisiting rear mech is a really knackered shimano SIS. I'd rather
replace it really.
Here the frame http://www.iknowthe.net/bike/

If I have a triple up front and 5 sprockets on my hub, that make 15
gears - what mech should I be looking for. The Triple is Shimano, the
downshifters suntour - what should I look for in terms of gears on the
mech - (I'm thinking ebay for used deals at the mo 🙂

Doesn't matter. The control of the number of gears is down to the levers,
not the mech. Modern 9-speed will only take a narrow chain which could be
problematic on 5 speed so get a 7 or 8 speed with a medium or long cage.

I thought you were getting nice shiny new wheels for the tourer? If so then
get at least an 8-speed cassette hub and cold set teh frame as necessary..

Other things to check:
1. the OLN distance (over lock nut) for the rear hub, ie how far it is
across the inside of the rear forks. I would expect it to be 120 or 126. 126
will take a 7-speed freewheel with no worries. 120 will be a bit tight but
could be sprung, though you would probably have to change the rear axle. In
any case a 120 will take a 6-speed block.

2. Are your levers indexed? If so, that will determine the number of gears
you get at the back.

So what you need is:

Front mech: cheap is TY22. 28.6 top swing bottom pull. 7.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Front&ProdID=5110000447
&UberCat=0

Better is the Deore M511 21.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Front&ProdID=5360012899
&UberCat=0

Freewheel: HG37 or HG22 should do fine. 14.99

Rear mech (if you really want to change it): ANy non nine-speed should do as
long as it is not 'short cage' (eg not road double)
The Acera is 17.99
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/Default.aspx?Main=ProductDetail.aspx&W=0&Manufacture
r=&UberCatName=&Cat=cycle&CategoryName=Derailleurs%20Rear&ProdID=4000000782&
UberCat=0

Gear levers: Getting harder to find and you probably don't want to shell out
for STI.
Can only see up to 6spd downtube levers there (TY20) so go for the 6-speed
freewheel if you go that route, or put the front mech lever on the downtube
and a 7-speed thumbshifter on the bars.
A good source of these is peoples bits boxes. Someone may have some to go
for a nominal price.

Add cables/chain and you are looking at 40-60 pounds to get on the road.
Plus the bottom bracket (10-20GBP), tools and so on.

...d

Alternatively you could get a Tiagra front mech from Settle cycles for £!5.99 and a Sora rear mech for 12.99 (www.settlecycles.co.uk). You will need a triple specific front mech, which will affect your bb length, your best bet is to get advice form the LBS, go for a sealed one, they are pretty much fit and forget now. the ebst deals I've found recently are on www.chainreactioncycles.com 16.99 for a UN73, or 11.99 for a UN53.

Bryan

in message <[email hidden]>, emma

(') said:

My exisiting rear mech is a really knackered shimano SIS. I'd rather
replace it really.
Here the frame http://www.iknowthe.net/bike/

It's very similar to my little sister's Royale of about the same date -
a lovely bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; killing [afghan|iraqi] civilians is not 'justice'

Call me Bob said:

Friction shifters move smoothly through their full range of motion, so
you yourself manually move the rear mech up and down the rear gear
cluster. Index shifters move in small, clicky, notches; one step at a
time. Each notch produces exactly the right amount of cable movement
to shift the rear mech one gear position up or down the matched rear
cluster.

I would expect the Suntour donwtube levers to be friction shifters,
have a play with them to confirm this. Are they smooth, or clicky? 🙂

if they are indexed (Suntour calls this accushift) they can probably
revert to friction by turning a ring.

Older Suntour shifters might have a micro ratchet not to be confused
with indexing. These only click in one direction

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl

Quoted message said:

it would come up a treat with a respray.

I think so too and It seems my very optimistic suggestion of this to
the other half has been readily accepted! Any suggestions of where to
go? Bob Jackson (inc. courier) is cheaper than my local powder coaters
- any thoughts on powder coating v. respray..

Quoted message said:

It makes me really happy seeing these kind of bikes/frames being given

new life. I want to come >around with some spanners and help, hehe.

Bob, You are more than welcome - where do you live 🙂

Quoted message said:

Older Suntour shifters might have a micro ratchet not to be confused

with indexing. These only >click in one direction

These are the babies, thanks for all the help!

emma said:

I think so too and It seems my very optimistic suggestion of this to
the other half has been readily accepted! Any suggestions of where to
go? Bob Jackson (inc. courier) is cheaper than my local powder coaters
- any thoughts on powder coating v. respray..

There's been plenty of discussion on this topic in the past, google
groups will give you plenty to read through. I think the general
consensus is that powder coating gives a more durable, but less fine
finish than a good paint job

Another thing to consider is that most local powder coaters will have
a more industrial type workload, and may not do that many bike frames.
They might not be set up for removing and refitting headsets, masking
threads etc. This isn't a problem if you are happy to do it yourself,
but not everyone is. That stuff should be par for the course for a
specialist bike sprayer, although they may charge extra of course.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It makes me really happy seeing these kind of bikes/frames being given

new life. I want to come >around with some spanners and help, hehe.

Bob, You are more than welcome - where do you live 🙂

Heh, well, I'm in Derby, but it's not an offer made out of altruism,
it's my selfish instinct to hog all the fun for me.

I'm sure you'll cope with this work admirably, and it's so satisfying
learning to look after and upgrade your own bikes. I view it as
Meccano for older kids. 🙂

"Bob"

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Email address is spam trapped.
To reply directly remove the beverage.

Quoted message said:

Heh, well, I'm in Derby, but it's not an offer made out of altruism,
it's my selfish instinct to hog all the fun for me.

I'm sure you'll cope with this work admirably, and it's so satisfying
learning to look after and upgrade your own bikes. I view it as
Meccano for older kids. 🙂

Ha, yes well think I'm ok - and it is fun. Am reassured by lots of
reading of Sheldon Brown 🙂