Re: Vehicle assault

Pippen said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.almanacnews.com/morgue/2005/2005_04_13.rage.shtml

This will be an interesting case.

I wonder if she will use the "I was in fear for my life" plea to explain why
she dragged the guy along side of the car in an attempt to flee from danger?
Still would not explain why she did not contact the police when she got to
work unless she knew she had screwed up.

My $0.02,

I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
*big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
have come from that cause.

I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
company is looking at some damage control.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In rec.bicycles.misc Werehatrack said:

I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
*big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
have come from that cause.

I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
company is looking at some damage control.

The police are being criminally negligent if they can't see through
this ruse. If the driver had admitted to physical contact with the
cyclist, she should have remained at the scene. The fact that she
didn't is hit and run at a minimum. Of course, the evidence of the
scraped shoes and car hood should match. The cyclist has already
"hired" the police to investigate this. If she can be shown to have
lied, then filing a false report is another charge.

I'm glad the cyclist is otherwise O.K. But, in my opinion it is
better all around to try to defuse these situations before they get
out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the [censored] driver what
they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it is better
not to let one's temper take over.

Once you start taking matters into your own hands you run the risk of
having the driver accuse you of "threatening" them. This is
especially true with a male cyclist and a female driver. (Sorry
ladies.)

If there's physical contact or a clear case of assault I call the
police and file a report. Otherwise I log a mildly threatening or
dangerous incident with our local Bicycle and Pedestrian Coalition.

http://penbiped.org/incidentreport.html

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

"Bill Bushnell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In rec.bicycles.misc Werehatrack said:

I would not be surprised if this gambit was tried. Her failure to
report the incident *immediately*, however, is telling, and her claim
that he jumped on the hood of her vehicle sounds just a trifle too
easy to disprove. Most hoods are not strong enough anymore to
withstand such loads without deforming, and his cleats would have left
*big* scratches in the paint. Something tells me that *he* knows
this, but *she* doesn't. and even if she figures it out, there's no
way she'll fake the scratches without tripping herself up since they'd
have to match the wear grooves in his cleats in order to be shown to
have come from that cause.

I'd say that if the rider's got the better attorney, her insurance
company is looking at some damage control.

The police are being criminally negligent if they can't see through
this ruse.

The police do see through this ruse. However, the police kiss the butts of
all of the residents in that area. Her story is so wildly improbable that it
would be disproved in a split second. Vehicular assault is a felony. So you
won't see the cops going out of their way to protect a bicyclist unless that
particular cop happens to be a bicyclist himself.

Quoted message said:

If the driver had admitted to physical contact with the
cyclist, she should have remained at the scene. The fact that she
didn't is hit and run at a minimum. Of course, the evidence of the
scraped shoes and car hood should match. The cyclist has already
"hired" the police to investigate this. If she can be shown to have
lied, then filing a false report is another charge.

I'm glad the cyclist is otherwise O.K. But, in my opinion it is
better all around to try to defuse these situations before they get
out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the [censored] driver what
they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it is better
not to let one's temper take over.

Once you start taking matters into your own hands you run the risk of
having the driver accuse you of "threatening" them. This is
especially true with a male cyclist and a female driver. (Sorry
ladies.)

If there's physical contact or a clear case of assault I call the
police and file a report. Otherwise I log a mildly threatening or
dangerous incident with our local Bicycle and Pedestrian Coalition.

http://penbiped.org/incidentreport.html

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Quoted message said:

... in my opinion it is better all around to try to defuse these situations
before they get out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the [censored]
driver what they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it
is better not to let one's temper take over.

=v= You seem to be making presumptions not indicated by the news
story.

=v= Getting the car's license plate is usually a prudent measure. The
fact that she slammed on the brakes right in front of him while he was
doing so is of course a cause of alarm, but not cause to lecture *us*
about temper.

=v= We should all be grateful that he did his civic duty and reported
her license number and behavior.
<_Jym_>

"Tom Kunich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The police do see through this ruse. However, the police kiss the butts of
all of the residents in that area. Her story is so wildly improbable that

it

Quoted message said:

would be disproved in a split second. Vehicular assault is a felony. So

you

Quoted message said:

won't see the cops going out of their way to protect a bicyclist unless

that

Quoted message said:

particular cop happens to be a bicyclist himself.

I'll have to agree, I ride up there a lot. It's a small town and everyone
seems to know everyone, they all look out after eachother. Usually the
people are pretty friendly, but some just don't like cyclist. There's the
noon ride that sort of left a bad taste in that area years ago, and it still
hasn't settled with a few folks.
When I ride up Old LaHonda Rd. there's been a few incidents where drivers
come pretty darn close at a high rate of speed in which I try to pull as far
over to the right. The police do seem to favor the residents. I actually
once had a cop tailgate me down hwy 84 from the junction of 35 to Portola
Rd., didn't pass me, just sat on my tail, and as has he passed me as I made
the right onto Portola, he gave me a dirty look. I thought to myself, "boy,
what was that about?"
-tom

Jym Dyer said:

Quoted message said:

... in my opinion it is better all around to try to defuse these situations
before they get out of hand. Sometimes that means giving the [censored]
driver what they want. No matter how good it might make one feel, it
is better not to let one's temper take over.

Quoted message said:

=v= You seem to be making presumptions not indicated by the news
story.

Jym:

It's helpful to examine dispassionately confrontations like this to
see how they might better be handled or defused. The minute one's
temper has taken over, rational decision making suffers.

The cyclist in question did the right thing by reporting the
incident, but I believe it was a mistake for him to attempt a dialog
with the driver in the heat of the moment. Think about how the
situation might have concluded if after being sideswiped he had
obtained the license plate number and description of the vehicle and
driver as best he could and then stopped and called the police.

While "having a word" with the driver of the car shouldn't hurt his
case, it doesn't help it either. But there is risk. Some drivers
carrying a weapon have used it when confronted about their driving.
Recall the incident in SF last year when a guy ran after a driver who
had struck his parked car, and the driver shot him dead during the
confrontation.

The objective is to win the war not the battle, to see that the
driver is brought to justice with minimal risk to the cyclist. If a
cyclist gives any credibility to a driver's story that the driver
felt threatened, then the cyclist's case is hurt. Many of these
aggressive drivers are insecure.

--
Bill Bushnell
http://pobox.com/~bushnell/

Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:03:50 GMT,
<[email hidden]>,

Bill Bushnell said:

Many of these
aggressive drivers are insecure.

Help them become compost.
--
zk

Bill Bushnell said:

While "having a word" with the driver of the car shouldn't hurt his
case, it doesn't help it either. But there is risk. Some drivers
carrying a weapon have used it when confronted about their driving.
Recall the incident in SF last year when a guy ran after a driver who
had struck his parked car, and the driver shot him dead during the
confrontation.

The objective is to win the war not the battle, to see that the
driver is brought to justice with minimal risk to the cyclist. If a
cyclist gives any credibility to a driver's story that the driver
felt threatened, then the cyclist's case is hurt. Many of these
aggressive drivers are insecure.

I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
that they already have.

I prefer that the public spaces not be handed over to those whose
behavior is the worst. And if everyone cowers in fear of being shot
for showing disapproval, that's what we'll get. Cops can't do it all,
and the laws can't do it all. The public needs to give the yahoos some
negative feedback on occasion.

Maybe someday, politeness and consideration will come back into
fashion. But that can only happen if those who are impolite and
inconsiderate stop getting tacit approval for their behavior.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
that they already have.

I prefer that the public spaces not be handed over to those whose
behavior is the worst. And if everyone cowers in fear of being shot
for showing disapproval, that's what we'll get. Cops can't do it all,
and the laws can't do it all. The public needs to give the yahoos some
negative feedback on occasion.

Maybe someday, politeness and consideration will come back into
fashion. But that can only happen if those who are impolite and
inconsiderate stop getting tacit approval for their behavior.

FINALLY someone expresses some common sense, instead of the
standard "fear of road rage" [censored] so many post here.

We should NEVER let these miscreants think their behavior is OK,
or that no one will ever do anything about it. Remember, if they
assault you again, it only makes it worse for them when the cops
get there.

Drivers also need to think twice about this behavior because more
and more cyclists are carrying and know how to use their weapon
to defend themselves when attacked.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I understand there may be possible downsides to having a word with the
driver; but I hate to see society moving toward a state where nobody
ever says anything to the yahoos, for fear of possible retribution.
When that happens, the yahoos will have won - to an even greater degree
that they already have.

I agree. This is true for more than just within the environment of cycling.
I was at the mall and some teens were goofing off with the mini antique
merry-go-round. It is designed for little kids, and has signs on it saying
not to stand on it, push it, or be over 100 pounds on it. These boys were
being/doing all of these things, while parents with tots were sitting on the
benches around them, not saying or doing anything. In a way and tone that I
hope was friendly, I came up to them and told them to get off and knock it
off and let the little ones get a chance, since the thing was really
designed for kids much younger.

They weren't upset at all, and took off. Maybe young males are supposed to
be intimidating. Yes, there's some gang activity in the neighborhood, but
that doesn't mean that every group of young men (even a group of young men
of color) are going to shoot you when you confront them. And I think it's
the responsibility of every adult to guide young people into civilized
behavior -- in fact, I think they secretly like it.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky

Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky