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Re: Updated Mountain Biking FAQ

Started by Jeff Strickland · · Last activity · 9 posts · 865 views

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Mountain Bikes
Published
8 May 2005
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Jeff Strickland
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  1. You are so out of touch with reality. How do you even perform the most basic
    of social functions?

    In my 50+ years, I have never seen or heard of anybody that is so totally
    and utterly out of touch with reality. Your arrogance and ignorance combine
    to make you completely unsuitable to render an opinion on anything. You
    presume to suggest that the motivations of all persons that ride bikes are
    the same as one person that rides a bike. That is the same as the ugliest of
    views that fueled racial discrimination for so many decades -- if one person
    is like this, then everybody that share the external qualitiy must be like
    this. This is the height of absurdity.

    Perhaps we shoulud assume that all PhD's are as stupid as you, or as narrow
    minded, and we should make sure we don't spend any public money on PhD
    programs anywhere in the country. Indeed, maybe we should look at suspending
    any and all public funding for education beyond high school. Idiot.

    "Mike Vandeman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Frequently Asked Questions about Mountain Biking
    Michael Vandeman, Ph.D.
    March 5, 2004

    1. Why do people mountain bike?
    a. They say that using a bike allows them to get much farther, in the same
    amount of time, than they can by walking. They also maintain constant
    pressure
    on land managers, to open more and more trails to bikes. Of course, all of
    these
    trails are already open to them, if they choose to walk. They also
    frequently
    claim that closing trails to bikes "excludes" them from the parks. This
    could
    only be true if they were unable to walk. Of course, they are able to
    walk.
    There's nothing inherently wrong with bicycling instead of walking; we all
    like
    to save energy, when it's appropriate. Use of a bicycle to replace
    automobile
    use is obviously beneficial. However, by the same token, replacing hiking
    with
    mountain biking is obviously not beneficial.
    b. They are interested in the quantity of nature they can see, rather than
    the
    quality of their experience. While riding a bike, especially over terrain
    as
    rough as a trail, one has to be constantly paying attention to not
    crashing.
    That make it almost impossible to notice much else. By contrast, a hiker
    feels
    the ground, hears all the sounds and smells all the odors of nature and
    can stop
    instantly, if he/she finds something interesting. The brain thrives on
    stimulation. A biker has to travel several times as far as a hiker, to get
    the
    same stimulation as a hiker. (And, by the same token, motorcyclists have
    to
    travel several times as far as a bicyclist, and an auto user several times
    as
    far as a motorcyclist, since they are enclosed in a metal box.)
    c. They are interested in thrills. Riding a bike on a trail, especially a
    trail
    containing many obstacles, or a trail one is not familiar with, is very
    challenging. (But if mountain biking is the high point of your week, as it
    seems
    to be for many mountain bikers, you must be leading a pretty dull life,
    off of
    the bike!)
    d. They are interested in building mountain biking skills and competing
    with
    other mountain bikers. The thrill of racing drives people to spend more
    money on
    their bike, and ride it harder and more often. Racing, up to and including
    the
    Olympics, drives a lot of mountain biking. Of course, it is also extremely
    harmful to the parks and natural areas that are used for practice! It is
    hard to
    think of any other (legal) use of public lands, other than hunting, that
    is as
    harmful as mountain biking.

    2. What is driving the sport of mountain biking? Besides the attraction
    for
    participants, manufacturers and retailers of mountain bikes and mountain
    biking
    accessories, as well as "adventure" travel guides, make a lot of money
    from
    promoting mountain biking. Even some auto manufacturers (e.g. Subaru)
    promote
    and sponsor mountain biking, and try to use its popularity to sell more
    cars.
    The tourism industry also promotes mountain biking, among other
    attractions.

    3. What harm does mountain biking do?
    a. Most obvious is the acceleration of erosion. Knobby tires rip into the
    soil,
    loosening it and allowing rain to wash it away. They also create V-shaped
    grooves that make walking difficult or even dangerous. The mechanical
    advantage
    given by the gears and ball bearings allow a mountain biker to travel
    several
    times as fast as a hiker. Given their increased weight (rider plus bike),
    this
    results in vastly increased momentum, and hence much greater horizontal
    (shearing) forces on the soil. (Witness the skid marks from stops, starts,
    and
    turns.) According to Newton, every action has an equal and opposite
    reaction.
    Mountain bikes were built much stronger than other bikes, so that they
    could
    withstand the greater forces they were subject to on rough trails. These
    same
    forces, therefore, are being applied to the trails! To give a definite
    number,
    the winner of a 20-mile race here in Briones Regional Park averaged 13 MPH
    (the
    speed limit is 15 MPH -- where were the park rangers?).
    b. A hiker must be very careful not to accidentally step on small animals
    and
    plants on the trail. For a mountain biker, it is almost impossible to
    avoid
    killing countless animals and plants on and under the trail. They have to
    pay
    attention to controlling the bike, and can't afford to look carefully at
    what is
    on the trail, especially when travelling fast. And even if they happen to
    see,
    for example, a snake, it is hard for them to stop in time to avoid killing
    it. A
    hiker, when crossing a creek, will try to avoid getting wet, by crossing
    on
    stepping stones or logs. Mountain bikers, on the other hand, simply ride
    right
    through the creek bed, crushing any animals or plants that happen to be
    there.
    Mountain biking magazines are full of photos of mountain bikers throwing
    up
    spray, as they barrel through creeks. Not only do bikes destroy animals
    and
    plants as they ride across streams, they ride through streams stirring up
    sediment. The sediment in the water interferes with the oxygen uptake by
    aquatic
    life, for example, killing fish- and frog eggs. Young fish, insects,
    amphibians,
    and aquatic microorganisms are extremely sensitive to sediment in water.
    c. Bikes also allow people to travel several times as far as a hiker. This
    translates into several times the impacts, both on the trail and on the
    wildlife
    (to say nothing of the other trail users). Existing parklands are already
    inadequate to protect the wildlife that live there. When they are
    crisscrossed
    by mountain bikers and legal or illegal trails, their habitat becomes even
    more
    inadequate. Mountain bikers frequently advertise rides of 20-50 miles or
    more.
    Have you ever tried to walk that far in a day? In other words, allowing
    bikes in
    a park greatly increases human presence in that park and drives wildlife
    further
    from the resources that they need to survive, including water, food, and
    mates.
    d. Due to their width and speed, bikes can't safely pass each other on
    narrow
    trails. Therefore, policies that permit mountain biking also result in
    more
    habitat destruction, as trails are widened by bikers (or by hikers and
    equestrians jumping out of their way).
    e. Knobby mountain bike tires are ideal for carrying mud, and consequently
    exotic plants, fungi, and other organisms from place to place, resulting
    in the
    spread of exotic invasive species, such as weeds and Sudden Oak Death.
    f. Mountain biking is driving the very young and old off of the trails and
    hence
    out of the parks. Even able-bodied hikers and equestrians fear for their
    safety,
    and don't enjoy sharing the trails with bikes. (The mountain bikers claim
    that
    they are simply being selfish and "unwilling to share", but actually they
    have
    no problem sharing trails with mountain bikers; it is only their bikes
    that are
    a problem!)
    g. Mountain bikes, which are obviously built to go anywhere, teach
    children and
    anyone else who sees them that the rough treatment of nature is
    acceptable. This
    undoubtedly has a negative effect on people's treatment of nature.
    h. In order to mitigate bike-caused erosion, park managers have been
    resorting
    to extreme measures -- even in some cases putting a plastic matrix or
    other
    exotic material under the trail (e.g. in Pleasanton Ridge Regional
    Preserve,
    near Pleasanton, California)! It's hard to imagine that this will have a
    beneficial effect on the park and its wildlife..
    i. Allowing mountain bikes in a park greatly increases the damage to the
    trails,
    damage from "bootleg" (illegally created) trails, and the problems of
    conflicts
    between trail users, and hence the cost of maintaining the park.
    Considering how
    tight park budgets are, we can't afford the extra costs of policing, and
    repairing the damage from, mountain biking.
    j. For the science on mountain biking and its impacts on wildlife and
    people,
    see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7.htm.

    4. Mountain bikers claim that their sport has no greater environmental
    impact
    than hiking. Is that true? If you read the "studies" that make that claim,
    you
    find that they don't really compare the impacts of hiking and mountain
    biking,
    but only the impacts per foot. If, for a moment, we assume that the
    studies are
    correct in their having equivalent impacts per foot, it would still follow
    that
    mountain biking has far greater impact per person, since mountain bikers
    typically travel so much farther than hikers. Besides overlooking
    distances
    travelled, those "studies" almost all ignore impacts on wildlife. And they
    don't
    study mountain biking under normal conditions -- only at a very slow
    speed.
    Actually, the comparison with hiking is irrelevant. It would only be
    relevant if
    we planned to allow only one of the two, and were considering which of the
    two
    is more harmful. In fact, no one is considering banning hiking. We are
    only
    considering adding mountain biking. Therefore, the only relevant question
    is,
    "Is mountain biking harmful"? (Of course, it is!) There is only one truly
    scientific study that I know of that compares the impacts of hiking and
    mountain biking. It found that mountain biking has a greater impact on elk
    than
    hiking (Wisdom, M. J., H. K. Preisler, N. J. Cimon, B. K. Johnson. 2004.
    Effects
    of Off-Road Recreation on Mule Deer and Elk. Transactions of the North
    American
    Wildlife and Natural Resource Conference 69: in press.)

    5. Where should mountain biking allowed? A couple of role models for
    wildlife
    protection are Yosemite National Park and East Bay Municipal Utility
    District
    (in Alameda and Contra Costa counties, California). They both restrict
    bicycles
    to paved roads, where they can't do much harm. Somehow bicyclists have
    managed
    to enjoy their sport for over a hundred years, without riding off-road.

    6. What should the policy be on trails? Closed to bikes, unless marked
    open.
    Signs that say "No Bikes" are quickly and repeatedly ripped out of the
    ground by
    mountain bikers.

    7. Isn't it discriminatory to allow hikers and equestrians on trails, but
    not
    mountain bikers? Mountain bikers love to say this, apparently because they
    think
    it will gain them some sympathy. The truth is that mountain bikers have
    exactly
    the same access to trails that everyone else has! It is only their bikes
    that
    are banned. If mountain bikers were really being discriminated against,
    they
    could easily go to court to gain access. However . they already have
    access to
    every trail in the world!

    8. Don't I have a right to mountain bike on all public lands? I am a
    taxpayer!
    The public has the right, through its elected representatives, to restrict
    how
    land is used. A federal court has already ruled that there is no right to
    mountain bike. It is a privilege, and any land manager who gives a good
    reason
    (such as safety or protecting the environment) can keep bikes off of
    trails (see
    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/mtb10.htm).

    9. Don't mountain bikers do some good things, like trail construction and
    trail
    maintenance? Trail construction destroys wildlife habitat both directly
    (by
    killing plants and animals) and indirectly (by reducing the size of the
    intervening "islands" of habitat). Moreover, mountain bikers favor trails
    that
    are "twisty" (sinuous), bumpy, and full of obstacles that provide thrills
    for
    mountain bikers. Such designs increase habitat destruction (by lengthening
    the
    trail) and make the trails less useful for hikers and equestrians. Trail
    maintenance sounds good, until you realize that it would hardly be
    necessary, if
    bikes weren't allowed there. The mountain bikers are the main reason why
    trail
    maintenance is necessary! Trails used only by hikers require hardly any
    maintenance. Therefore, admitting bicycles to a park greatly increases its
    cost
    of maintenance. Nothing is really "free", including trail construction and
    maintenance. (How does the saying go? "Beware of Trojans bearing gifts"?)

    10. But don't mountain bikers provide added safety, by being able to
    quickly
    summon help in the event of an emergency? I would rather trust in a cell
    phone,
    than a speeding mountain biker. Besides, natural areas are already one of
    the
    safest places you can be. In over 50 years of hiking and backpacking, I
    have
    never witnessed any situation requiring emergency aid. Most people go to
    natural
    areas partly for solitude. If we wanted to be around large, fast-moving
    pieces
    of machinery, we would stay in the city!

    11. Can't mountain biking help get our overweight kids off the couch?
    Hiking can
    already do that, without causing extra harm to wildlife and people.
    Mountain
    biking downhill provides zero exercise benefit. Mountain biking on level
    ground
    provides minimal exercise benefit, much less than walking. Since it's
    impossible
    to pay any attention to your surroundings while mountain biking (or you
    will
    crash), there's no reason to promote mountain biking. It benefits only
    those who
    stand to make money off of it, such as bike manufacturers, retailers, and
    tour
    companies.

    12. Doesn't mountain biking get people out of their cars? So do walking,
    road
    cycling, and transit use, without harm to the natural environment. Since
    very
    few mountain biking opportunities are within easy bicycling distance, the
    vast
    majority of mountain bike trips require transporting the bike in a truck,
    SUV,
    or car. If mountain bikers cared about the environment, they would bicycle
    to
    the park, lock their bike at the trailhead, and hike. Or simply bicycle on
    paved
    roads, as bicyclists have for the past century.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  2. Jeff Strickland said:

    You are so out of touch with reality. How do you even perform the
    most basic of social functions?

    Jeff, you top-posting moron. You left *17 KBs* of Vandedrivel below your
    POINTLESS WASTE OF TIME [censored].

    If you insist on arguing endlessly with the lunatic troll, for the love of
    all that's sane in this world PLEASE TRIM YOUR FRIGGING POSTS.

    TYVM.

    BS

  3. Bill Sornson said:

    You left *17 KBs* of Vandedrivel below your
    POINTLESS WASTE OF TIME


    'Ya notice those who feed the troll the most trim the least? This is
    almost pot 'n' kettle.

    Pete H

    --
    A person is free only in
    the freedom of other persons.
    W. Berry

  4. On Mon, 09 May 2005 02:28:02 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    ..Jeff Strickland wrote:
    ..> You are so out of touch with reality. How do you even perform the
    ..> most basic of social functions?
    ..
    ..Jeff, you top-posting moron. You left *17 KBs* of Vandedrivel below your
    ..POINTLESS WASTE OF TIME [censored].
    ..
    ..If you insist on arguing endlessly with the lunatic troll, for the love of
    ..all that's sane in this world PLEASE TRIM YOUR FRIGGING POSTS.

    Mountain bikers are stupid, but ORV drivers are even stupider. QED

    ..TYVM.
    ..
    ..BS
    ..

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  5. On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:49:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Mountain bikers are stupid, but ORV drivers are even stupider. QED


    Huh?

    QED is the common abbreviation for the Latin phrase "quod est
    demonstratum" roughly meaning "which is proven or demonstrated".

    All you have done is state your opinion, with zero supporting
    evidence. You have proven nothing, and demonstrated nothing, in
    support of your OPINION, which is supposed to be taken as absolute
    truth and fact. In fact, you do NOTHING other than repeat your
    opinion.

    All you demonstrate is your massive ego, and your minimal intellect.
    Or maybe you are too lazy to get involved in an actual exchange of
    ideas. Or maybe you are afraid someone might convince you that one of
    your OPINIONS is not the absolute TRUTH.

    Using "QED" the way you do is a feeble attept at intellectual
    bullying. No one can disagree with YOUR TRUTH after you say "QED"?

    But your condition prevents you from acknowledging other people as
    real, or caring about anything outside yourself.

    How many acres of wilderness are destroyed each day in the US alone,
    while you do nothing, and say nothing, about those causes?

    It has never been about the environment with you. It is a desperate
    attempt to be perceived as important and useful by others. Your ego
    runs your life.

    Thank you for amusing us today.

    Happy trails,
    Gary (net.yogi.bear)
    --
    At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

    Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
    Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

  6. On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:49:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>

    wrote in message : said:

    Mountain bikers are stupid, but ORV drivers are even stupider. QED

    Really? QED? Cite the evidence for this claim. Show, with figures,
    that mountain bikers have significantly below average intelligence.
    Vague assertions, single data points and arm-waving are not
    sufficient, you need specific measurements of decent sized groups from
    credible sources. Otherwise this goes down as one more example of
    your bigotry.

    You might find it difficult to actually prove your case there, by the
    way - surveys of bike riders in Britain found that they scored higher
    than average for educational attainment, income, wealth, car
    onwership, house ownership and every other measure apart from
    satellite/cable TV subscriptions, where they were less likely than
    average to be subscribers. All of which makes it look as if perhaps
    your assertion is inverted, and mountain bikers may be at or above the
    51st centile of ursine intelligence. Trolls, of course, typically
    score low, mainly as a result of having rocks in their heads.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  7. Guy:

    Normally I do not condone feeding trolls, but you have me LMAO!!!

    You have MV dancing around like a toy poodle in a skirt and looking just as
    silly. He has been in my killfile for years, but some of the replies to his
    lies are hysterical.

    THANKS for laughs!

    eric

  8. On Mon, 09 May 2005 19:41:27 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:

    ..On Mon, 09 May 2005 14:49:53 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>
    ..wrote in message <[email hidden]>:
    ..
    ..>Mountain bikers are stupid, but ORV drivers are even stupider. QED
    ..
    ..Really? QED? Cite the evidence for this claim. Show, with figures,
    ..that mountain bikers have significantly below average intelligence.

    Read alt.mountain-bike for a day.

    ..Vague assertions, single data points and arm-waving are not
    ..sufficient, you need specific measurements of decent sized groups from
    ..credible sources. Otherwise this goes down as one more example of
    ..your bigotry.
    ..
    ..You might find it difficult to actually prove your case there, by the
    ..way - surveys of bike riders in Britain found that they scored higher
    ..than average for educational attainment, income, wealth, car
    ..onwership, house ownership and every other measure apart from
    ..satellite/cable TV subscriptions, where they were less likely than
    ..average to be subscribers. All of which makes it look as if perhaps
    ..your assertion is inverted, and mountain bikers may be at or above the
    ..51st centile of ursine intelligence.

    None of that proves anything about INTELLIGENCE. DUH! Thanks for proving my
    point.

    Trolls, of course, typically
    ..score low, mainly as a result of having rocks in their heads.
    ..
    ..Guy

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
    humans ("pure habitat"😉. Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

  9. On Tue, 10 May 2005 01:52:56 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    .Really? QED? Cite the evidence for this claim. Show, with figures,
    .that mountain bikers have significantly below average intelligence.

    Quoted message said:

    Read alt.mountain-bike for a day.

    Like I said, vague assertions, single data points and arm-waving are
    not sufficient. You need specific measurements of decent sized groups
    from credible sources. Otherwise this goes down as one more example
    of your bigotry.

    Specifically with reference to alt.mountain-bike, you have not
    demonstrated that what goes on there is any different to hundreds of
    other similar newsgroups and web forums covering other activities,
    particularly once age profile is taken into account. As ever you fail
    to demonstrate relevant difference.

    Quoted message said:

    .surveys of bike riders in Britain found that they scored higher
    .than average for educational attainment, income, wealth, car
    .onwership, house ownership and every other measure apart from
    .satellite/cable TV subscriptions, where they were less likely than
    .average to be subscribers. All of which makes it look as if perhaps
    .your assertion is inverted, and mountain bikers may be at or above the
    .51st centile of ursine intelligence.

    Quoted message said:

    None of that proves anything about INTELLIGENCE. DUH! Thanks for proving my
    point.

    Which is why I said it /makes it look as if/ your assertion is wrong,
    rather than stating that it was conclusive evidence. DUH!

    You are the one making a claim, it is up to you to provide evidence
    for it. Cite concrete proof from reputable sources or stand convicted
    of bigotry. Again.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

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