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Re: Tricks for keeping cadence?

Started by Charles Hizark · · Last activity · 6 posts · 420 views

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01 / Original postRe: Tricks for keeping cadence?Charles Hizark · 25 Oct 2004 02 / This pagePosts 1–6Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #6Blair P. Houghton · 29 Oct 2004

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Original section
Road Cycling
Published
25 October 2004
Last activity
29 October 2004
Original author
Charles Hizark
Posts
6
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Public discussion
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420
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Topics
CadenceAero positionHeart rate trainingTime trialsJan UllrichMiguel Indurain

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  1. Original post
    Charles Hizark
    Archived post
    #1

    Terry Morse <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The "quiet upper body" riding is a development in the pursuit of
    excessive spinning, where saddle bounce becomes a problem. If you
    observe anyone racing you'll notice that riders lunge onto the
    downward stroke if working anywhere near top performance. This is not
    an option but a necessity.

    All out sprinting aside, a lunging upper body is a telltale sign of
    trying to maintain speed in too high a gear. For an experienced
    rider, dropping to a lower gear should make it go away. The notion
    that one must lunge over each pedal to generate high power is old
    school myth and lore. The limit to performance on climbs is the
    heart, not the amount of force once can put into a pedal. Lowering
    the gear ratio reduces the maximum pedal force, removing the need
    for upper body gymnastics.

    If you get a chance to see the 2004 Tour de France DVD, watch
    Armstrong as he climbs l'Alpe d'Huez. His upper body is relaxed and
    virtually motionless -- all the way to the finish (except when he
    sprints to the finish out of the saddle). His cadence appears to be
    80-85, for a full 40 minutes of near maximum effort climbing.

    Another good person to watch is Miguel Indurain. It's really amazing
    to watch Miguel climb almost in saddle while his opponents struggle to
    keep up while climbing out of the saddle.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Riding with no upper body motion is
    possible only when riding at a less than maximum effort where an
    optional style is drawn from extra effort, something riders cannot do
    for long when working hard.

    I don't understand your point. Riders can't maintain a maximum
    effort for long, regardless of their form. I think it's confusing
    the point to bring up maximum effort riding when discussing riding
    style. It should be obvious that a quiet upper body is more
    aerobically efficient than one that's moving "all over the machine",
    as Phil Liggett would say. Throwing upper body weight around is an
    attempt to shove a few more pounds of force into a pedal, which
    should not be confused with power. A low-torque engine that runs at
    high RPMs can put out as much power as a high-torque engine with low
    RPMs.

    Regarding maximum effort, consider the following: Time trial
    specialists can ride for an hour well above their lactate
    thresholds, yet many ride with rock-solid upper bodies. Jan Ullrich
    is a good example.

    Report
  2. Badger South
    Archived post
    #2
    (Charles Hizark) said:

    Another good person to watch is Miguel Indurain. It's really amazing
    to watch Miguel climb almost in saddle while his opponents struggle to
    keep up while climbing out of the saddle.

    Any theories about what's behind Indurain's greatness? Genetics, heritige,
    talent, work ethic?

    I know the position you mean (I think), where he's about 2-3 inches off the
    saddle, but basically in the upper body and elsewhere are still in the same
    aero position as when seated. In fact you have to look closely to see he's
    not -standing- exactly. He is actually off the saddle, a couple inches
    forward an inch or two above it.

    -B

    Report
  3. Charles Hizark
    Archived post
    #3

    Badger South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    (Charles Hizark) said:

    Another good person to watch is Miguel Indurain. It's really amazing
    to watch Miguel climb almost in saddle while his opponents struggle to
    keep up while climbing out of the saddle.

    Any theories about what's behind Indurain's greatness? Genetics, heritige,
    talent, work ethic?

    I am sure that Genetics and talent plays a large role. After all
    Indurain had the 2nd or 3rd lowest heart rate in the world. The thing
    that made Indurain exeptional was that he knew his form so well.
    Indurain knew precisely how much energy and time it would take to
    chase down a rider.

    Quoted message said:


    I know the position you mean (I think), where he's about 2-3 inches off the
    saddle, but basically in the upper body and elsewhere are still in the same
    aero position as when seated. In fact you have to look closely to see he's
    not -standing- exactly. He is actually off the saddle, a couple inches
    forward an inch or two above it.

    -B

    I have used this technique before and it works well when you need to
    accelerate. Another good technique is move back in the saddle when you
    feel your pedaling is becoming uneven.

    Quoted message said:
    Report
  4. remove the polite word to reply
    Archived post
    #4

    One trick I use in my low budget, low talent pursuit of pro-looking
    cadences is to do four pedal revolutions per breath cycle, or some
    variant of that.
    You can adjust it to your particular ability/style.

    If you shift up too much, and adopt a cadence that is too low, you
    won't be able to complete
    the four revolutions before you have to take a breath again, because
    each rev will be too hard, and therefore, too slow.

    This way you can force yourself to keep a high cadence.

    Report
  5. Warren
    Archived post
    #5

    "remove the polite word to reply" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    One trick I use in my low budget, low talent pursuit of pro-looking
    cadences is to do four pedal revolutions per breath cycle, or some
    variant of that.

    If you want to look like a pro then why do you do something they don't do?

    Quoted message said:

    You can adjust it to your particular ability/style.

    If you shift up too much, and adopt a cadence that is too low, you
    won't be able to complete
    the four revolutions before you have to take a breath again, because
    each rev will be too hard, and therefore, too slow.

    This is dumb and does not determine the most efficient cadence to be used at
    any given time.

    Quoted message said:


    This way you can force yourself to keep a high cadence.

    You should not force your breathing to do anything other than what your
    cardiovascular system needs at that time.

    If you can't manage to do a simple thing like maintain cadence then buy a
    cheap cadence sensor and stare at that for awhile.

    -WG

    Report
  6. Blair P. Houghton
    Archived post
    #6
    remove the polite word to reply said:

    One trick I use in my low budget, low talent pursuit of pro-looking
    cadences is to do four pedal revolutions per breath cycle, or some
    variant of that.

    The only problem with that is, the harder you breathe,
    the faster you pedal. The faster you pedal, the harder
    you breathe. Pretty soon you're going the speed of light,
    but you're also using up all the oxygen.

    --Blair
    "And you'll have to suck the air
    out of your tires if you want to
    go any faster."

    Report

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