One query about Cadair Idris, when I was younger it was spelt Cader Idris, then it changed to Cadair Idris, I noticed today that on the information boards it's now spelt Cader Idris again! Does anyone know why it seems to have changed back again ?
I always thought that Cader was an anglicisation, until I was there a few weeks ago and noticed that spelling used on signs in Welsh! As a linguist I'd hazard a (very ill-informed) guess that 'cader' is a the modern Welsh form of the word, and 'Cadair' is an archaic form that has survived in the place name. Are there any Welsh speakers out there who can confirm/deny this?
Sorry but as a welsh speaker I can tell you that cadair is very much in current use as the welsh word for chair.
Gerald
"David Gruar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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(Greetings from a lurker)
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One query about Cadair Idris, when I was younger it was spelt Cader Idris, then it changed to Cadair Idris, I noticed today that on the information boards it's now spelt Cader Idris again! Does anyone know why it seems to have changed back again ?
I always thought that Cader was an anglicisation, until I was there a few weeks ago and noticed that spelling used on signs in Welsh! As a linguist I'd hazard a (very ill-informed) guess that 'cader' is a the modern Welsh form of the word, and 'Cadair' is an archaic form that has survived in the place name. Are there any Welsh speakers out there who can confirm/deny this?
I'd hazard a (very ill-informed) guess that 'cader' is a the modern Welsh form of the word, and 'Cadair' is an archaic form that has survived in the place name. Are there any Welsh speakers out there who can confirm/deny this?
The Welshish for chair is cadair. I have no idea what 'cader' might mean - AFAIK it's not Welsh.
-- If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation.
"Idris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Sorry but as a welsh speaker I can tell you that cadair is very much in current use as the welsh word for chair.
Hmm, thanks for putting me right. Presumably the people who wrote the information boards can't spell and/or have been corrupted by anglicisations. One more question though, could cadair be pronounced as cader, at least locally? As a non-Welsh-speaker that strikes me as possible, especially in relaxed speech - it's a lot less effort to say 'Caderidris' than 'Cada-ir Idris'.
David
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"David Gruar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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(Greetings from a lurker)
Quoted message said:
One query about Cadair Idris, when I was younger it was spelt Cader Idris, then it changed to Cadair Idris, I noticed today that on the information boards it's now spelt Cader Idris again! Does anyone know why it seems to have changed back again ?
I always thought that Cader was an anglicisation, until I was there a
few
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weeks ago and noticed that spelling used on signs in Welsh! As a
linguist
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I'd hazard a (very ill-informed) guess that 'cader' is a the modern
Welsh
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form of the word, and 'Cadair' is an archaic form that has survived in
the
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place name. Are there any Welsh speakers out there who can confirm/deny this?
One more question though, could cadair be pronounced as cader, at least locally?
Oh yes, easily. There are nearly as many differences in Welsh as there are in English. Or at least it seems so to me. -- If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation.
As has been said the word CADAIR means SEAT in Welsh ( this is a better translation than Chair!) It is the SEAT of (the giant called) Idris.
Dolgellau is in an area where there is some local variation of Welsh pronunciation, and CadAIR is indeed pronounced CadER there ((rhymes with "there" actually!!!)
The correct spelling of chair/seat is cadAIR but local pronunciation is cadER
Hence the confusion.
Incidentally the local secondary school takes the cadER name - Ysgol y Gader
The message <1109095353.8207ee89529c906e199caab3620d9a0c@teranews> from Gareth Jones <[email hidden]> contains these words:
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Dolgellau is in an area where there is some local variation of Welsh pronunciation, and CadAIR is indeed pronounced CadER there ((rhymes with "there" actually!!!)
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The correct spelling of chair/seat is cadAIR but local pronunciation is cadER
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Hence the confusion.
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Incidentally the local secondary school takes the cadER name - Ysgol y Gader
I am sure the early 7th Series 1" map No 117 was labelled Dolgelley rather than Dolgellau but that changed long before the OS transmogrified Cader into Cadair.
-- Roger Chapman so far this year 17 summits New - 11 (Marilyns 0, Sweats 1, Outlying Fells 10) Repeats - 6 (Marilyns 1, Sweats 2, Wainwrights 6, Outlying Fells 0)
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:16:07 GMT, Roger <[email hidden]>
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The message <1109095353.8207ee89529c906e199caab3620d9a0c@teranews> from Gareth Jones <[email hidden]> contains these words:
Quoted message said:
Dolgellau is in an area where there is some local variation of Welsh pronunciation, and CadAIR is indeed pronounced CadER there ((rhymes with "there" actually!!!)
Quoted message said:
The correct spelling of chair/seat is cadAIR but local pronunciation is cadER
Quoted message said:
Hence the confusion.
Quoted message said:
Incidentally the local secondary school takes the cadER name - Ysgol y Gader
I am sure the early 7th Series 1" map No 117 was labelled Dolgelley rather than Dolgellau but that changed long before the OS transmogrified Cader into Cadair.
So it looks as though the locals call it Cader. I find that quite amusing! Any chance of reverting to Wrexham too? I notice they reverted a few years ago to the nice traditional counties - tourists love 'em!
I notice they reverted a few years ago to the nice traditional counties - tourists love 'em!
If only. What we've got now are Unitary Authorities. Some areas struck lucky and were able to reclaim their 'proper' names - others were not so fortunate. I'd far rather live in Mid Glamorgan or Canol Morgannwg than Rhondda Cynon Taff. -- If you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation.
I notice they reverted a few years ago to the nice traditional counties - tourists love 'em!
If only. What we've got now are Unitary Authorities. Some areas struck lucky and were able to reclaim their 'proper' names - others were not so fortunate. I'd far rather live in Mid Glamorgan or Canol Morgannwg than Rhondda Cynon Taff.
The South Walian authorities haven't yet cottoned on to the potential then. Last couple of years our tourism brochures have been full of nice names like Montgomeryshire and Denbighshire - not a Powys or Dyfed to be seen!
