Re: Topical Sun Protectives

It should be clarified that by worse, we are viewing this from a cosmetic
standpoint (i.e. skin damage). The face is the prime area of concern here,
and skin cancer of this region is usually not an issue.

poise said:

Furthermore, protecting against UVB while employing faulty UVA filtering
techniques is actually worse than wearing no sunscreen at all, not only
because it encourages more sun exposure, and not only because carcinogenic
(pro-radical) compounds are generally utilized, but perhaps most directly
because it cuts off the body's natural production of protective melanin,
which is dependent upon UVB.

Not true. Some protection is better than none.

See:

Arch Dermatol. 2004 Jun;140(6):745-6.
The end of the sunscreen and melanoma controversy?
Bigby ME.
PMID: 15210469 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Drugs Dermatol. 2004 May-Jun;3(3):323-4.
Does sunscreen cause melanoma? Researchers now strongly say no.
[No authors listed]
PMID: 15176171 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Ann Intern Med. 2003 Dec 16;139(12):966-78.
Sunscreen use and the risk for melanoma: a quantitative review.
Dennis LK, Beane Freeman LE, VanBeek MJ.
PMID: 14678916 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most of the daily sun protectants people use are made of microionized zinc
or titanium, which are quite useless, in my opinion, against the
ever-important UVA rays.

They are very inefficient protectors--even a very high concentration
does not provide much UVA protection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Avobenzone (parsol 1789), like topical PABA,
converts UV to free radicals, which is obviously not good.

So do physical screens, particularly in the UVA range and when
the particles are not coated with silicone or some other similar
substance, but both are orders of magnitude less damaging than UV
radiation striking bare skin.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you use this
ingredient for your UVA protection, it should be in a rich antioxidant

base,

and combined with other UVA screens

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and reapplied each sunshine hour (it breaks down quickly).

and combined with stability enhancers. Many Cosmair formulations
employing avobenzone are quite photostable.

It is incorrect to state that avobenzone is not photostable.
Stability of avobenzone depends on the formulation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Further, there

is

Quoted message said:

some concern that the daily use of chemical screens (especially the
Benzophenones) may pose a real systemic risk.

There is some concern but no real evidence. The smaller, oil-soluble
filters are more likely to be systemically absorbed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mexoryl is a brilliant
innovation.

There are two: Mexory SX and Mexoryl XL. There are also two Tinosorbs
(S amd M) as well as a few other chemical UVA filters on the horizon.
None of these are currently FDA approved.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It should be noted that, as well as being poor UVA protectants,
microniozed/encapsulated physical blocks are effectively absorbed by the
skin. We know that this poses a free radical risk, but conclusive in vivo
study is sparse at this point.

The sunscreens most effective in blocking and/or reflecting UVA
comtain a number of chemical AND physical UVA filters in both the
water- and oil-soluble fractions of the formulation. Some
examples: La Roche Posay Anthelios L, XL, and XL Fluide Extreme,
Bioderma Photoderm Max and Laser, and many others. Look for a very
high PPD (persistent pigment darkening) protection factor, which is
a rough guide to how protective a formulation will be in the UVA
fraction.

You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best.

More on what consitutes superior UVA protection:

Stege H, Budde MA, Grether-Beck S, Krutmann J.
Evaluation of the capacity of sunscreens to photoprotect lupus
erythematosus patients by employing the photoprovocation test.
Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2000 Dec;16(6):256-9.
PMID: 11132128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bernerd F, Vioux C, Lejeune F, Asselineau D.
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately defines broad spectrum
photoprotection: demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro exposed
to UVA, UVBor UV-solar simulated radiation.
Eur J Dermatol. 2003 May-Jun;13(3):242-9.
PMID: 12804982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

acard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

"You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months
later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best."

So do you suggest that I buy these? I have type III skin that rarely
burns. How much more effective are the products you mentioned over the
top-of-the-line $10 SPF 45 you get at US drugstores?

Stobius said:

acard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

"You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months
later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best."

So do you suggest that I buy these? I have type III skin that rarely
burns. How much more effective are the products you mentioned over the
top-of-the-line $10 SPF 45 you get at US drugstores?

According to one of L'Oreal's reports that ended up in an FDA
docket, the maximum allowable FDA concentration of 3% avobenzone
combined with a stabilizer such as 10% octocrylene provides a PPD
of about 8, which is probably as good as it gets in the USA.
You can find such a combination in Ombrelle SPF 40 lotion. Some
of the well-formulated pure mineral or almost pure mineral
screens with very high concentration of actives might also be
competitive at this range, but most probably not, with the
exception of the Fallene Total Block formulations which are
very expensive.

The most protective Anthelios XL (PPD 30) is available at
Beauty Center Europe.

https://www.bce-europe.com/index.php?cPath=22_61&sort=2a&filter_id=14

There is also a cheaper Vichy with PPD 16

https://www.bce-europe.com/index.php?cPath=22_61&sort=2a&filter_id=1

Shipping is between $15-$20 USD so if you go this route it might
be more cost-effective to get 6 or more 100-ml tubes at a time.

You could also try this site, they also sell Bioderma photoderm
products along with La Roche Posay and Vichy, all of which are
excellent. You will have to send them email for USA ordering
instructions, as I have lost their quickbuy link.

http://www.paraformeplus.com/

A cheaper alternative is the Anthelios L formulation (PPD 15), which you
can get for much less in Canada with shipping around $5 USD.

http://www.feelbest.com/sunscreens.cfm
http://www.jandrugs.com/profile/ANTHELIOS%20SPF%2060.asp
http://www.abconlinepharmacy.com/ns/customer/product26383-c67-p1

Or the Ombrelle 60 formulation, which is essentially identical
to Anthelios L but even cheaper:

http://www.feelbest.com/sunscreens.cfm

The Avene 50 is also good, but very whitening.

I notice that they raised the prices considerably from the last
time I checked.

cde said:

According to one of L'Oreal's reports that ended up in an FDA
docket, the maximum allowable FDA concentration of 3% avobenzone
combined with a stabilizer such as 10% octocrylene provides a PPD
of about 8, which is probably as good as it gets in the USA.
You can find such a combination in Ombrelle SPF 40 lotion. Some
of the well-formulated pure mineral or almost pure mineral
screens with very high concentration of actives might also be
competitive at this range, but most probably not, with the
exception of the Fallene Total Block formulations which are
very expensive.

As you seem to be very well informed about the skin products, is there
any sunscreen that tou would recommend for acne-prone skin (it should
not be creamy or oily).

Thanks
Jan

cde <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Stobius wrote:

Thanks for the links. But what do you mean by whitening? It causes
your skin to be white when its on, or that it changes the color of it
white even after you wash it off?

Quoted message said:

The Avene 50 is also good, but very whitening.

I notice that they raised the prices considerably from the last
time I checked.

Stobius said:

cde <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Stobius wrote:

Thanks for the links. But what do you mean by whitening? It causes
your skin to be white when its on, or that it changes the color of it
white even after you wash it off?

It gives you a Kabuki face until you wash it off.

Jan said:

As you seem to be very well informed about the skin products, is there
any sunscreen that tou would recommend for acne-prone skin (it should
not be creamy or oily).

There aren't many. These might work:

Avene oil-free sun cream 20B/20A
ROC Minesol very high protection sun spray SPF 30
Vichy Capital Soleil spray SPF 40/PPD 18
La Roche-Posay Anthelios W SPF 40 gel
Avene Sunblock Spray SPF 60B/60A might work, but it's whitening.
La Roche-Posay Anthelios XL Fluid Extreme SPF 40 might be ok. The
60 has a light texture but it's oilier than you might like.

There are some nice Asian formulations that are even lighter
but they are more expensive and somewhat less protective.

I like these, especially the clear milk 85 PA+++:
http://www.sunkiller.com.sg/products.html

You might find them on Ebay, or in Asian stores if you live in
a big city.

Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:28:57 GMT in article

acard said:

The sunscreens most effective in blocking and/or reflecting UVA
comtain a number of chemical AND physical UVA filters in both the
water- and oil-soluble fractions of the formulation. Some
examples: La Roche Posay Anthelios L, XL, and XL Fluide Extreme,
Bioderma Photoderm Max and Laser, and many others. Look for a very
high PPD (persistent pigment darkening) protection factor, which is
a rough guide to how protective a formulation will be in the UVA
fraction.

You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best.

More on what consitutes superior UVA protection:

Stege H, Budde MA, Grether-Beck S, Krutmann J.
Evaluation of the capacity of sunscreens to photoprotect lupus
erythematosus patients by employing the photoprovocation test.
Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2000 Dec;16(6):256-9.
PMID: 11132128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bernerd F, Vioux C, Lejeune F, Asselineau D.
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately defines broad spectrum
photoprotection: demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro exposed
to UVA, UVBor UV-solar simulated radiation.
Eur J Dermatol. 2003 May-Jun;13(3):242-9.
PMID: 12804982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Green tea or its ingredients administered as a topical cream and/or orally
seem to offer good protection against UV-induced skin damage and skin
cancer. Some health shops sell topical sun creams containing green tea or
its ingredients. Do you have any information/experience about them?

References:

1: Batchelder RJ, Calder RJ, Thomas CP, Heard CM.
In vitro transdermal delivery of the major catechins and caffeine from
extract of Camellia sinensis.
Int J Pharm. 2004 Sep 28;283(1-2):45-51.
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2: Vayalil PK, Mittal A, Hara Y, Elmets CA, Katiyar SK.
Green tea polyphenols prevent ultraviolet light-induced oxidative damage
and matrix metalloproteinases expression in mouse skin.
J Invest Dermatol. 2004 Jun;122(6):1480-7.
PMID: 15175040 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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3: Afaq F, Ahmad N, Mukhtar H.
Suppression of UVB-induced phosphorylation of mitogen-activated protein
kinases and nuclear factor kappa B by green tea polyphenol in SKH-1 hairless
mice.
Oncogene. 2003 Dec 18;22(58):9254-64.
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Monnier VM.
Green tea extract suppresses the age-related increase in collagen
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YJ.
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6: Mittal A, Piyathilake C, Hara Y, Katiyar SK.
Exceptionally high protection of photocarcinogenesis by topical application
of (--)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate in hydrophilic cream in SKH-1 hairless
mouse model: relationship to inhibition of UVB-induced global DNA
hypomethylation.
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7: Chung JH, Han JH, Hwang EJ, Seo JY, Cho KH, Kim KH, Youn JI, Eun HC.
Dual mechanisms of green tea extract (EGCG)-induced cell survival in human
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8: Katiyar SK.
Skin photoprotection by green tea: antioxidant and immunomodulatory
effects.
Curr Drug Targets Immune Endocr Metabol Disord. 2003 Sep;3(3):234-42.
Review.
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9: Trompezinski S, Denis A, Schmitt D, Viac J.
Comparative effects of polyphenols from green tea (EGCG) and soybean
(genistein) on VEGF and IL-8 release from normal human keratinocytes
stimulated with the proinflammatory cytokine TNFalpha.
Arch Dermatol Res. 2003 Jul;295(3):112-6. Epub 2003 Jun 13.
PMID: 12811578 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12871030>

10: Hsu S, Bollag WB, Lewis J, Huang Q, Singh B, Sharawy M, Yamamoto T,
Schuster G.
Green tea polyphenols induce differentiation and proliferation in epidermal
keratinocytes.
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 2003 Jul;306(1):29-34. Epub 2003 Mar 27.
PMID: 12663686 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12663686>

11: Vayalil PK, Elmets CA, Katiyar SK.
Treatment of green tea polyphenols in hydrophilic cream prevents
UVB-induced oxidation of lipids and proteins, depletion of antioxidant
enzymes and phosphorylation of MAPK proteins in SKH-1 hairless mouse skin.
Carcinogenesis. 2003 May;24(5):927-36.
PMID: 12771038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12771038>

12: Afaq F, Adhami VM, Ahmad N, Mukhtar H.
Inhibition of ultraviolet B-mediated activation of nuclear factor kappaB in
normal human epidermal keratinocytes by green tea Constituent
(-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate.
Oncogene. 2003 Feb 20;22(7):1035-44.
PMID: 12592390 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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13: Linden KG, Carpenter PM, McLaren CE, Barr RJ, Hite P, Sun JD, Li KT,
Viner JL, Meyskens FL.
Chemoprevention of nonmelanoma skin cancer: experience with a polyphenol
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Recent Results Cancer Res. 2003;163:165-71; discussion 264-6. Review.
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14: Einspahr JG, Bowden GT, Alberts DS.
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Recent Results Cancer Res. 2003;163:151-64; discussion 264-6. Review.
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15: Tobi SE, Gilbert M, Paul N, McMillan TJ.
The green tea polyphenol, epigallocatechin-3-gallate, protects against the
oxidative cellular and genotoxic damage of UVA radiation.
Int J Cancer. 2002 Dec 10;102(5):439-44.
PMID: 12432544 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12432544>

16: Saito M, Saito K, Kunisaki N, Kimura S.
Green tea polyphenols inhibit metalloproteinase activities in the skin,
muscle, and blood of rainbow trout.
J Agric Food Chem. 2002 Nov 20;50(24):7169-74.
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17: Lu YP, Lou YR, Xie JG, Peng QY, Liao J, Yang CS, Huang MT, Conney AH.
Topical applications of caffeine or (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG)
inhibit carcinogenesis and selectively increase apoptosis in UVB-induced
skin tumors in mice.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Sep 17;99(19):12455-60. Epub 2002 Aug 30.
PMID: 12205293 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/19/12455>

18: Conney AH, Lu YP, Lou YR, Huang MT.
Inhibitory effects of tea and caffeine on UV-induced carcinogenesis:
relationship to enhanced apoptosis and decreased tissue fat.
Eur J Cancer Prev. 2002 Aug;11 Suppl 2:S28-36.
PMID: 12570332 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12570332>

19: An KP, Athar M, Tang X, Katiyar SK, Russo J, Beech J, Aszterbaum M,
Kopelovich L, Epstein EH Jr, Mukhtar H, Bickers DR.
Cyclooxygenase-2 expression in murine and human nonmelanoma skin cancers:
implications for therapeutic approaches.
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<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12126310>

20: Saha P, Das S.
Elimination of Deleterious Effects of Free Radicals in Murine Skin
Carcinogenesis by Black Tea Infusion, Theaflavins & Epigallocatechin
Gallate.
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PMID: 12718579 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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21: Proniuk S, Liederer BM, Blanchard J.
Preformulation study of epigallocatechin gallate, a promising antioxidant
for topical skin cancer prevention.
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PMID: 11782902 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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22: Lu YP, Lou YR, Li XH, Xie JG, Lin Y, Shih WJ, Conney AH.
Stimulatory effect of topical application of caffeine on UVB-induced
apoptosis in mouse skin.
Oncol Res. 2002;13(2):61-70.
PMID: 12392153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12392153>

23: Katiyar SK, Bergamo BM, Vyalil PK, Elmets CA.
Green tea polyphenols: DNA photodamage and photoimmunology.
J Photochem Photobiol B. 2001 Dec 31;65(2-3):109-14. Review.
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24: Hebert JL, Khugyani F, Athar M, Kopelovich L, Epstein EH Jr, Aszterbaum
M.
Chemoprevention of basal cell carcinomas in the ptc1+/- mouse--green and
black tea.
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25: Katiyar SK, Afaq F, Azizuddin K, Mukhtar H.
Inhibition of UVB-induced oxidative stress-mediated phosphorylation of
mitogen-activated protein kinase signaling pathways in cultured human
epidermal keratinocytes by green tea polyphenol
(-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate.
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26: Lu YP, Lou YR, Lin Y, Shih WJ, Huang MT, Yang CS, Conney AH.
Inhibitory effects of orally administered green tea, black tea, and
caffeine on skin carcinogenesis in mice previously treated with ultraviolet
B light (high-risk mice): relationship to decreased tissue fat.
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27: Katiyar SK, Elmets CA.
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28: Katiyar SK, Mukhtar H.
Green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate treatment to mouse skin
prevents UVB-induced infiltration of leukocytes, depletion of
antigen-presenting cells, and oxidative stress.
J Leukoc Biol. 2001 May;69(5):719-26.
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29: Elmets CA, Singh D, Tubesing K, Matsui M, Katiyar S, Mukhtar H.
Cutaneous photoprotection from ultraviolet injury by green tea polyphenols.
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30: Katiyar SK, Afaq F, Perez A, Mukhtar H.
Green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate treatment of human skin
inhibits ultraviolet radiation-induced oxidative stress.
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31: Bhatia N, Agarwal C, Agarwal R.
Differential responses of skin cancer-chemopreventive agents silibinin,
quercetin, and epigallocatechin 3-gallate on mitogenic signaling and cell
cycle regulators in human epidermoid carcinoma A431 cells.
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32: Kim J, Hwang JS, Cho YK, Han Y, Jeon YJ, Yang KH.
Protective effects of (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate on UVA- and
UVB-induced skin damage.
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PMID: 11174086 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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33: Bickers DR, Athar M.
Novel approaches to chemoprevention of skin cancer.
J Dermatol. 2000 Nov;27(11):691-5. Review.
PMID: 11138532 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:50:00 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

Green tea or its ingredients administered as a topical cream and/or orally
seem to offer good protection against UV-induced skin damage and skin
cancer.

Olive oil applied topically _after_ UV-exposure may also protect against
skin cancer:

Budiyanto A, Ahmed NU, Wu A, Bito T, Nikaido O, Osawa T, Ueda M, Ichihashi
M.
Protective effect of topically applied olive oil against photocarcinogenesis
following UVB exposure of mice.
Carcinogenesis. 2000 Nov;21(11):2085-90.
PMID: 11062172 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/11/2085>

Ichihashi M, Ahmed NU, Budiyanto A, Wu A, Bito T, Ueda M, Osawa T.
Preventive effect of antioxidant on ultraviolet-induced skin cancer in mice.
J Dermatol Sci. 2000 Mar;23 Suppl 1:S45-50.
PMID: 10764992 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10764992>

Also, skin wrinkling in a sun-exposed site in older people may be influenced
by the types of foods consumed

Purba MB, Kouris-Blazos A, Wattanapenpaiboon N, Lukito W, Rothenberg EM,
Steen BC, Wahlqvist ML.
Skin wrinkling: can food make a difference?
J Am Coll Nutr. 2001 Feb;20(1):71-80.
PMID: 11293471 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/20/1/71>

--
Matti Narkia

Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:50:00 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:28:57 GMT in article

acard said:

The sunscreens most effective in blocking and/or reflecting UVA
comtain a number of chemical AND physical UVA filters in both the
water- and oil-soluble fractions of the formulation. Some
examples: La Roche Posay Anthelios L, XL, and XL Fluide Extreme,
Bioderma Photoderm Max and Laser, and many others. Look for a very
high PPD (persistent pigment darkening) protection factor, which is
a rough guide to how protective a formulation will be in the UVA
fraction.

You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best.

More on what consitutes superior UVA protection:

Stege H, Budde MA, Grether-Beck S, Krutmann J.
Evaluation of the capacity of sunscreens to photoprotect lupus
erythematosus patients by employing the photoprovocation test.
Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2000 Dec;16(6):256-9.
PMID: 11132128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bernerd F, Vioux C, Lejeune F, Asselineau D.
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately defines broad spectrum
photoprotection: demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro exposed
to UVA, UVBor UV-solar simulated radiation.
Eur J Dermatol. 2003 May-Jun;13(3):242-9.
PMID: 12804982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Green tea or its ingredients administered as a topical cream and/or orally
seem to offer good protection against UV-induced skin damage and skin
cancer. Some health shops sell topical sun creams containing green tea or
its ingredients. Do you have any information/experience about them?

References:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

30: Katiyar SK, Afaq F, Perez A, Mukhtar H.
Green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate treatment of human skin
inhibits ultraviolet radiation-induced oxidative stress.
Carcinogenesis. 2001 Feb;22(2):287-94.
PMID: 11181450 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11181450>

Full text at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/2/287>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

43: Katiyar SK, Challa A, McCormick TS, Cooper KD, Mukhtar H.
Prevention of UVB-induced immunosuppression in mice by the green tea
polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be associated with alterations
in IL-10 and IL-12 production.
Carcinogenesis. 1999 Nov;20(11):2117-24.
PMID: 10545414 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10545414>

Full text at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/11/2117>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

53: Liu Q, [censored] Y, Crist KA, [censored] ZY, Lou YR, Huang MT, Conney AH, You M.
Effect of green tea on p53 mutation distribution in ultraviolet B
radiation-induced mouse skin tumors.
Carcinogenesis. 1998 Jul;19(7):1257-62.
PMID: 9683186 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9719465>

Url was wrong, the correct one is

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9683186>

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/7/1257>

Full text (PDF) at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/19/7/1257>

Quoted message said:

58: Katiyar SK, Mohan RR, Agarwal R, Mukhtar H.
Protection against induction of mouse skin papillomas with low and high
risk of conversion to malignancy by green tea polyphenols.
Carcinogenesis. 1997 Mar;18(3):497-502.
PMID: 9067548 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9067548>

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/3/497>

Full text (PDF) at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/18/3/497>

[snip]

Quoted message said:

64: Katiyar SK, Agarwal R, Mukhtar H.
Inhibition of both stage I and stage II skin tumor promotion in SENCAR mice
by a polyphenolic fraction isolated from green tea: inhibition depends on
the duration of polyphenol treatment.
Carcinogenesis. 1993 Dec;14(12):2641-3.
PMID: 8269639 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8269639>

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/12/2641>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

67: Katiyar SK, Agarwal R, Ekker S, Wood GS, Mukhtar H.
Protection against 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol-13-acetate-caused inflammation
in SENCAR mouse ear skin by polyphenolic fraction isolated from green tea.
Carcinogenesis. 1993 Mar;14(3):361-5.
PMID: 8453711 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8453711>

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/3/361>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

71: Huang MT, Ho CT, [censored] ZY, Ferraro T, Finnegan-Olive T, Lou YR, Mitchell
JM, Laskin JD, Newmark H, Yang CS, et al.
Inhibitory effect of topical application of a green tea polyphenol fraction
on tumor initiation and promotion in mouse skin.
Carcinogenesis. 1992 Jun;13(6):947-54.
PMID: 1600615 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/6/947>

Quoted message said:

[snip}

Quoted message said:

76: [censored] ZY, Khan WA, Bickers DR, Mukhtar H.
Protection against polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon-induced skin tumor
initiation in mice by green tea polyphenols.
Carcinogenesis. 1989 Feb;10(2):411-5.
PMID: 2912593 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2912593>

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/10/2/411>

--
Matti Narkia

Matti Narkia said:

Green tea or its ingredients administered as a topical cream and/or orally
seem to offer good protection against UV-induced skin damage and skin
cancer. Some health shops sell topical sun creams containing green tea or
its ingredients. Do you have any information/experience about them?

If a suncreen has antioxidants in the formulation, you can't count on
the concentrations being high enough or the formulation being effective
to provide additional protection from UV, although they will probably
help to preserve the formulation.

It's probably safer to use a separate antioxidant topical underneath in
most cases, unless the formulation is superior. It's difficult though
because there are pH issues with each active and there may be
incompatibilities with the antioxidant actives vs the sunscreen actives.
So it might be best to use a topical underneath, give it 10-15 minutes
to absorb and penetrate to the deeper parts of the epidermis, and then
apply the sunscreen.

You can make your own topical with various antioxidants to use under your
sunscreen. Make very small quantities and refrigerate.

Green tea extract is cheap and effective, usually used in concentrations
of 1-5%, and can be combined with a number of other antioxidants such
as vitamin C, vitamin E/tocotrienols/coQ10, ALA, grapeseed extract,
silymarin, etc.

These combined probably do not amount to much more than a protective
factor of about 2 and they tend to be more effective for UVB than UVA but
they are a good addition because they will help to protect the skin from
the free radicals produced when UV strikes chemical (and physical) filters
in the sunscreen.

High doses of oral fish oil also add some protection by providing an
oxidizable layer.

Diet is also important. Aside from the Greek/Swedish subject study,
the Robinson squamous cell carcinoma diet experiments on mice showed
a 20-fold variation from diet alone. This is very impressive because
it takes SPF 15 to prevent skin cancer in the mouse via topical only.

The winner in the Robinson study was a raw fruit/vegetable diet with
supplemental vitamin C. The protective effect was lost by the addition
of substantial protein and fat in the form of legumes, nuts, and seeds.

cde said:

The most protective Anthelios XL (PPD 30) is available at
Beauty Center Europe.

Why isn't this available in the United States?
e.g. is the FDA preventing this being sold in the US and, if so, what
are the reasons?

Thanks.

Henry

My understanding is that in areas of Australia where use of sun screen
has gone up so has skin cancers. Which leads me to believe that sun
screen either 1)leads to a false sense of security and sunbathers end
up with way too much sun exposure or 2) sun screen doesn't work or
worse yet, the chemicals in sun screen may encourage skin cancers.

Either way, elevated use of sun screens should lessen the incidence of
skin cancer and not increase them. Something is most definitely wrong
with this picture.

TC

acard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

poise said:

Furthermore, protecting against UVB while employing faulty UVA filtering
techniques is actually worse than wearing no sunscreen at all, not only
because it encourages more sun exposure, and not only because carcinogenic
(pro-radical) compounds are generally utilized, but perhaps most directly
because it cuts off the body's natural production of protective melanin,
which is dependent upon UVB.

Not true. Some protection is better than none.

See:

Arch Dermatol. 2004 Jun;140(6):745-6.
The end of the sunscreen and melanoma controversy?
Bigby ME.
PMID: 15210469 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Drugs Dermatol. 2004 May-Jun;3(3):323-4.
Does sunscreen cause melanoma? Researchers now strongly say no.
[No authors listed]
PMID: 15176171 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Ann Intern Med. 2003 Dec 16;139(12):966-78.
Sunscreen use and the risk for melanoma: a quantitative review.
Dennis LK, Beane Freeman LE, VanBeek MJ.
PMID: 14678916 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most of the daily sun protectants people use are made of microionized zinc
or titanium, which are quite useless, in my opinion, against the
ever-important UVA rays.

They are very inefficient protectors--even a very high concentration
does not provide much UVA protection.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Avobenzone (parsol 1789), like topical PABA,
converts UV to free radicals, which is obviously not good.

So do physical screens, particularly in the UVA range and when
the particles are not coated with silicone or some other similar
substance, but both are orders of magnitude less damaging than UV
radiation striking bare skin.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you use this
ingredient for your UVA protection, it should be in a rich antioxidant

base,

and combined with other UVA screens

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and reapplied each sunshine hour (it breaks down quickly).

and combined with stability enhancers. Many Cosmair formulations
employing avobenzone are quite photostable.

It is incorrect to state that avobenzone is not photostable.
Stability of avobenzone depends on the formulation.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Further, there

is

Quoted message said:

some concern that the daily use of chemical screens (especially the
Benzophenones) may pose a real systemic risk.

There is some concern but no real evidence. The smaller, oil-soluble
filters are more likely to be systemically absorbed.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mexoryl is a brilliant
innovation.

There are two: Mexory SX and Mexoryl XL. There are also two Tinosorbs
(S amd M) as well as a few other chemical UVA filters on the horizon.
None of these are currently FDA approved.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It should be noted that, as well as being poor UVA protectants,
microniozed/encapsulated physical blocks are effectively absorbed by the
skin. We know that this poses a free radical risk, but conclusive in vivo
study is sparse at this point.

The sunscreens most effective in blocking and/or reflecting UVA
comtain a number of chemical AND physical UVA filters in both the
water- and oil-soluble fractions of the formulation. Some
examples: La Roche Posay Anthelios L, XL, and XL Fluide Extreme,
Bioderma Photoderm Max and Laser, and many others. Look for a very
high PPD (persistent pigment darkening) protection factor, which is
a rough guide to how protective a formulation will be in the UVA
fraction.

You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best.

More on what consitutes superior UVA protection:

Stege H, Budde MA, Grether-Beck S, Krutmann J.
Evaluation of the capacity of sunscreens to photoprotect lupus
erythematosus patients by employing the photoprovocation test.
Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2000 Dec;16(6):256-9.
PMID: 11132128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bernerd F, Vioux C, Lejeune F, Asselineau D.
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately defines broad spectrum
photoprotection: demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro exposed
to UVA, UVBor UV-solar simulated radiation.
Eur J Dermatol. 2003 May-Jun;13(3):242-9.
PMID: 12804982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Quoted message said:

Why isn't this available in the United States?
e.g. is the FDA preventing this being sold in the US and, if so, what
are the reasons?

Isn't it traditional for the FDA to wait and let other
countries be the guinea pigs, even when the products have
been thorougly tested? Or is it because USA manufacturers
are loathe to discard their cheap stockpile of ineffective
filters? I am not sure, but I think it may be a little bit
of both. There are many interesting letters to the FDA
from manufacturers in the dockets. The reputable manufactuers
are pushing for approval for more UVA filters and labels
for UVA protection ratings, instead of the "broad spectrum"
term which isn't regulated and doesn't mean anything.

We should see some changes in early-mid 2005.

Charlie Perrin said:

And that's how we didn't get "highly safe" thalidomide before they
learned its teratogenic effects.

Thalidomide was never tested on pregnant animals before
it was used in humans. There was no legal requirement
to do so at the time.

Quoted message said:

If they have a better product, let 'em bring it over.

Tell it to the FDA.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We should see some changes in early-mid 2005.

Interestingly enough, during the Bush Administration: The post of FDA
Commissioner was open until November 2002, then it became open again
in March 2004.

But after November 2004, John Edwards will probably be available to
sue the FDA to speed up their processes. <grin/duck>

It was nearly two years ago that the FDA announced a
hold on decision making for revised sunscreen rules.

They will release a revised monograph in 2005.

We will probably get Mexoryl SX, Mexoryl XL, and the
two Tinosorbs in 2005 along with labels that provide
some measure of UVA protection.

"Matti Narkia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:50:00 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:28:57 GMT in article

acard said:

The sunscreens most effective in blocking and/or reflecting UVA
comtain a number of chemical AND physical UVA filters in both the
water- and oil-soluble fractions of the formulation. Some
examples: La Roche Posay Anthelios L, XL, and XL Fluide Extreme,
Bioderma Photoderm Max and Laser, and many others. Look for a very
high PPD (persistent pigment darkening) protection factor, which is
a rough guide to how protective a formulation will be in the UVA
fraction.

You can order such sunscreens from Europe, pay a small fortune in
shipping, and hope that you do get your package (up to 3 months later).
Or pay 3x retail and order them through USA websites, or write letters
to your congressmen and hope for the best.

More on what consitutes superior UVA protection:

Stege H, Budde MA, Grether-Beck S, Krutmann J.
Evaluation of the capacity of sunscreens to photoprotect lupus
erythematosus patients by employing the photoprovocation test.
Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 2000 Dec;16(6):256-9.
PMID: 11132128 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Bernerd F, Vioux C, Lejeune F, Asselineau D.
The sun protection factor (SPF) inadequately defines broad spectrum
photoprotection: demonstration using skin reconstructed in vitro exposed
to UVA, UVBor UV-solar simulated radiation.
Eur J Dermatol. 2003 May-Jun;13(3):242-9.
PMID: 12804982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Green tea or its ingredients administered as a topical cream and/or

orally

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seem to offer good protection against UV-induced skin damage and skin
cancer. Some health shops sell topical sun creams containing green tea or
its ingredients. Do you have any information/experience about them?

References:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

30: Katiyar SK, Afaq F, Perez A, Mukhtar H.
Green tea polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate treatment of human

skin

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

inhibits ultraviolet radiation-induced oxidative stress.
Carcinogenesis. 2001 Feb;22(2):287-94.
PMID: 11181450 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=11181450>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Full text at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/2/287>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

43: Katiyar SK, Challa A, McCormick TS, Cooper KD, Mukhtar H.
Prevention of UVB-induced immunosuppression in mice by the green tea
polyphenol (-)-epigallocatechin-3-gallate may be associated with

alterations

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in IL-10 and IL-12 production.
Carcinogenesis. 1999 Nov;20(11):2117-24.
PMID: 10545414 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=10545414>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Full text at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/11/2117>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

53: Liu Q, [censored] Y, Crist KA, [censored] ZY, Lou YR, Huang MT, Conney AH, You

M.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Effect of green tea on p53 mutation distribution in ultraviolet B
radiation-induced mouse skin tumors.
Carcinogenesis. 1998 Jul;19(7):1257-62.
PMID: 9683186 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=9719465>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Url was wrong, the correct one is

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&do
pt=Abstract&list_uids=9683186>

Quoted message said:

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/7/1257>

Full text (PDF) at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/19/7/1257>

Quoted message said:

58: Katiyar SK, Mohan RR, Agarwal R, Mukhtar H.
Protection against induction of mouse skin papillomas with low and high
risk of conversion to malignancy by green tea polyphenols.
Carcinogenesis. 1997 Mar;18(3):497-502.
PMID: 9067548 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=9067548>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/18/3/497>

Full text (PDF) at

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/reprint/18/3/497>

[snip]

Quoted message said:

64: Katiyar SK, Agarwal R, Mukhtar H.
Inhibition of both stage I and stage II skin tumor promotion in SENCAR

mice

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by a polyphenolic fraction isolated from green tea: inhibition depends on
the duration of polyphenol treatment.
Carcinogenesis. 1993 Dec;14(12):2641-3.
PMID: 8269639 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=8269639>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/12/2641>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

67: Katiyar SK, Agarwal R, Ekker S, Wood GS, Mukhtar H.
Protection against 12-O-tetradecanoylphorbol-13-acetate-caused

inflammation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in SENCAR mouse ear skin by polyphenolic fraction isolated from green

tea.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carcinogenesis. 1993 Mar;14(3):361-5.
PMID: 8453711 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=8453711>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/14/3/361>

Quoted message said:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

71: Huang MT, Ho CT, [censored] ZY, Ferraro T, Finnegan-Olive T, Lou YR,

Mitchell

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

JM, Laskin JD, Newmark H, Yang CS, et al.
Inhibitory effect of topical application of a green tea polyphenol

fraction

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on tumor initiation and promotion in mouse skin.
Carcinogenesis. 1992 Jun;13(6):947-54.
PMID: 1600615 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/6/947>

Quoted message said:

[snip}

Quoted message said:

76: [censored] ZY, Khan WA, Bickers DR, Mukhtar H.
Protection against polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon-induced skin tumor
initiation in mice by green tea polyphenols.
Carcinogenesis. 1989 Feb;10(2):411-5.
PMID: 2912593 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&d

opt=Abstract&list_uids=2912593>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

An alternative url:

<URL:http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/10/2/411>

--
Matti Narkia

"Charlie Perrin" <c.l.perrin@SPAMBOTS_DIEatt.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And that's how we didn't get "highly safe" thalidomide before they
learned its teratogenic effects.

That was forty years ago!! And represents the choice of
an individual FDA scientist rather than some great institutional
wisdom. They've approved "toxic turkeys" since.