Re: Tipping in the US

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]

Quoted message said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
people line up at the door for those jobs...

Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
job.

Quoted message said:

a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

Quoted message said:

a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

-aem

aem said:

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]

Quoted message said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
people line up at the door for those jobs...

Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for

another

Quoted message said:

job.

Quoted message said:

a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles,

a

Quoted message said:

county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

Quoted message said:

a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh

no,

Quoted message said:

that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it

applies

Quoted message said:

to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

-aem

Nothing you claim is true. Wait people don't share their tips with
other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.

And wait staff definitely does make good bucks, unless they're
incompetent, and then they're canned their first day on the job anyway.
I don't know where you live but the waitstaff at an average (so-so)
NYC restaurant often takes home more than the cooks, often a lot more.

I lived in LA during the 1960s, and yes, Angelenos gotta be the
cheapest tippers on the planet. However, I had a good friend who
during the warm months worked valet parking at Harrahs, Lake Tahoe...
even back then he netted better than a Grand a week in tips... just
jockying cars. Those willing to hustle their butts and have a pleasant
disposition can make a very good living just from tips.... but a lot
depends on location... I'm probably the only one in this hillybilly
burg who tips my barber $5 for a $12 haircut... but in NYC a haircut
can easily cost $30+ and for a $5 tip they'd spit on you. You must
live in some cave in North Dakota.

Sheldon said:

Nothing you claim is true.

Aren't you the one who rips others for not backing up their assertions
with facts and references? My post, like your opinions, is based on my
experiences and what I've learned from people in these businesses.
What makes your experiences universal and mine not?

Quoted message said:

Wait people don't share their tips with
other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.

No, I have friends who worked as servers in Las Vegas and in South Lake
Tahoe and they told me they pooled their tips in the casinos, just as
the dealers did. Other friends who have worked as servers in
restaurants have said they share their tips with the bussers.

Quoted message said:

And wait staff definitely does make good bucks,

Again, some can and do, but I know of no nationwide statistics that
rank wait staff, on average, high on any income comparisons. Do you?
It's the whole range of income levels that are impacted by this kind of
legislation, and that's the problem with simply pointing to the few who
do well.

Quoted message said:

[snips]
You must live in some cave in North Dakota.

Well, North Korea, North Dakota, Southeastern Alaska, Southern
California, Boston, NYC--wherever there's an internet connection will
do.

-aem

Sheldon said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait people
line up at the door for those jobs... a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easly earn six figures just from tips... a good
drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs, and I mean
from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

True. I know bartenders that quit professional jobs (attorneys, CPA's,
actuaries, etc.) to tend bar...some have invested wisely, they have bought
shares in a bar, retired early, etc....

A guy I know is a waiter at the Four Seasons, he makes well over 100K...he
has a lucrative dog - walking bizness on the side, too. He lives better
than pretty much anyone I know...

--
Best
Greg

Sheldon said:

Kathy said:

A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes to
remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which employees
can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff for
nothing but the tips they hope to make.

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.

They're required to pay a minimum fixed amount which varies from state
to state. The assumption being that tips will make up the difference.

Quoted message said:

Many restaurants pay no wage at all

And if they do that, they're in violation of the law in every state in
the US.

Quoted message said:

yet highly experienced wait people
line up at the door for those jobs...

Sure. And then they file a class action suit like happened in NYC and
California and they beat the owners and got back pay with penalties.

Pastorio

Sheldon said:

aem said:

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]

Quoted message said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
people line up at the door for those jobs...

Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
job.

Quoted message said:

a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

Quoted message said:

a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

It's not 99% or very near it, but, yes, the attrition rate in
foodservice is horrifying.

Quoted message said:

Nothing you claim is true.

Bwah... LIke Sheldon would know sitting up there on his farm what goes
on in the real world...

Quoted message said:

Wait people don't share their tips with
other wait people, they often share a small percentage with the
bussers... you must be posting from North Korea.

Sheldon, tip pooling is *common* in foodservice. How about if you make
an effort to post about what you know? Oh, wait... it's Sheldon.

You've never been in the restaurant business and it's stunningly
obvious. Yet you pontificate as though you had even the remotest clue.

Quoted message said:

And wait staff definitely does make good bucks, unless they're
incompetent, and then they're canned their first day on the job anyway.
I don't know where you live but the waitstaff at an average (so-so)
NYC restaurant often takes home more than the cooks, often a lot more.

Waitstaff money is predicated on what kind of place it is, how
prosperous it is, how good they are and a lot of other variables. As
for who makes the most money in restaurants, often the best of the
servers will make more than the average cook, but it's by no means the
standard.

Here comes the nice lady with pills for you...

Idiot.

Pastorio

In article <[email hidden]>,

Sheldon said:

Kathy said:

A new twist on a well-worn subject - Senator Rick Santorum proposes

to

Quoted message said:

remove all state requirements for a minimum wage for jobs in which

employees

Quoted message said:

can expect tips. Restaurant owners could then "hire" serving staff

for

Quoted message said:

nothing but the tips they hope to make.

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait people
line up at the door for those jobs... a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easly earn six figures just from tips... a good
drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs, and I mean
from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

How many four star restaurants do you think there are? They are few and
far between. Most restaurants are the greasy spoon mom and pop type.

Santorum is a world class idiot. Speaking as a born and raised
Pennsylvanian, I am shamed that enough people in PA vote for this
idiot that he can retain political office in Washington.

Also, don't some people have to "buy" their jobs. Years ago there
was a documentary that told of Matre d's in Vegas who paid up to 50,000.
for the position.....Sharon

aem said:

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]

Quoted message said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
people line up at the door for those jobs...

Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
job.

Quoted message said:

a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

Quoted message said:

a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

-aem

"aem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon wrote:
[snip preceding]

Quoted message said:

Huh? Employers are not required to pay waitstaff minimum wage now.
Many restaurants pay no wage at all yet highly experienced wait
people line up at the door for those jobs...

Yes, it would be nice if industry practices rewarded those highly
experienced people enough so they wouldn't have to line up for another
job.

Quoted message said:

a good wait person in many four
star restaurants can easily earn six figures just from tips...

Yes, but there are only 1 or 2 four star restaurants in Los Angeles, a
county of more than 10 million people and thousands of eating places.

Quoted message said:

a good drink server in Vegas can easly do better than many CEOs,
and I mean from legitimate tips, not on their knees.

Yes, many small businesses fail and their CEOs make no money -- oh no,
that's not you meant -- well, in the casinos in Vegas and many of the
clubs, drink servers pool their tips so the good servers make no more
than the bad servers, and it certainly isn't as much as you seem to
think it is.

I've worked for various Casinos in Vegas over the years. Mostly dealing
with payroll systems and I can say that servers generally don't pool their
tips. Dealers pool tips based on game and shift. The IRS came up with a
"Tip Compliance" program some years ago with the ideal of guarenteeing
tipped employees that they wouldn't get audited due to tip issues if they
would promise to declare so much per job per area per shift. There is no
way in hell a coctail waitress working swing shift in the dollar+ slots area
would pool their tips with another coctail waitress working day shift in the
nickel slots area.

Here's the kicker. The IRS negotiated each rate for job/area/shift with
each casino so you could be a coctail server in the dollar+ slots area
working a the swing shift at two different casino and have to declare a
different amount.

Also, as far as I've seen, the casinos all pay at least minimum wage. I
freaked out when I moved to Nebraska and found out a friend was only making
2 something an hour.

Quoted message said:

The less than minimum wage + tips system results in good compensation
for a few very skillful servers at high-priced eating and drinking
places. The trouble with stingy federal legislation is that it applies
to the vast majority who do not do so well. 99% or so of new
restaurant ventures fail in less than a year, but it's not because
paying $2.13/hour tipped them into red ink.

-aem

Bret

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Maverick said:

"aem" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I've worked for various Casinos in Vegas over the years. Mostly

dealing

Quoted message said:

with payroll systems and I can say that servers generally don't pool

their

Quoted message said:

tips. Dealers pool tips based on game and shift. The IRS came up

with a

Quoted message said:

"Tip Compliance" program some years ago with the ideal of

guarenteeing

Quoted message said:

tipped employees that they wouldn't get audited due to tip issues if

they

Quoted message said:

would promise to declare so much per job per area per shift. There

is no

Quoted message said:

way in hell a coctail waitress working swing shift in the dollar+

slots area

Quoted message said:

would pool their tips with another coctail waitress working day shift

in the

Quoted message said:

nickel slots area. [snip the rest]

Thanks for that info, it makes sense. My friends worked at relatively
small casinos, so maybe the differentiation between the gaming areas
wasn't as large. They did say that their pools were within their own
shift.

-aem