Ron Ritzman said:On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 02:20:33 -0500, Bob Pastorio <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:>Exempting special cases where one would have an abnormally high (or
>abnormally low) calorie requirement, do you believe that your average
>adult living an average lifestyle' fat or thin, should be eating no
>more then two pounds of "normal food" per day?
No need for more.
Hey Ron. Notice how they forget which one is talking? And which is
supposed to answer which question?
But really notice the information-free reply.
No, it's not "information free". I suspected for quite some time that
Mu's promotion of the 2PD is as much as a moral crusade against
overconsumption as it is the promotion of a weight control diet. That
statement reconfirms it.
I gently disagree. Given the normal ratio of content to noise that Mu
posts, you can't infer that. If morality of any rational were truly an
issue with Mu, that whole posting history would be very different.
Given that he implies with that statement that a single quantity of
food, essentially irrespective of content, is "correct" for everybody,
all the time, it's absurd on the face of it. He hasn't ever talked
about any other overconsumption (energy, raw materials, space, SUV's,
etc.) and generally comes across too self-involved and self-satisfied
to consider externals like that. His generally juvenile style offers
rather the opposite sense of him. That he knows THE TRUTH and no proof
or reason or demonstration is necessary. Notice how many times he's
been critical of other people's credentials while offering none of his
own. Notice how often he denigrates others rather than to offer any
constructive information. He claims to be a counselor who, by
inference, should be helpful, yet spends a great deal of online time
merely demonstrating malice. No, I can't buy any sort of morality from
Mu.
Quoted message said:The weight control part I agree with. If you're overweight and have
made the decision to lose weight, then you must eat less then your
body needs. The 2PD is a good simple way to do that and a good simple
way of keeping it off. There is nothing more or less dangerous about
it then any other low(er) calorie diet involving "normal food". That's
where I take issue with some of Dr. Chung's critics who claim that his
diet will kill people
A few things:
1) for weight loss, that amount of food will likely cause people to
lose weight. But I maintain that in the case of those who need to lose
more than a trivial amount, the long-term implications are too vague.
The only real admonition is to use "common sense" as though it somehow
confers knowledge about nutritional information. People who eat badly
and become obese are told to merely scale back the amount and not
concern themselves with content. They've said to worry about that
after the weight is gone.
2) And after they've lost their weight, he says they should continue
at that level forever. We're way past that initial concept of weight
loss now and heading into insufficient nutrition.
3) I haven't seen any serious assertion that the diet would kill
people. The people who asked questions back at the beginning and were
turned away with cryptic and unusable answers, mocked and derided,
have become scoffers as the claims from Chung and Mu have evolved from
the level of suggestion to sheer braggadocio. They talk about 100%
efficacy and hundreds of patients doing it and offer nothing beyond
their demonstrably unreliable words. As they have accelerated the
rhetorical level and proclaimed utterly absurd claims, they've been
met with the sort of scorn that mountebanks and malicious clowns deserve.
Quoted message said:I disagree with his position that people have a moral obligation to
eat only what they "need" however. As long as one's consumption is not
taking food out of anybody else's mouth ("lifeboat" situations, food
shortages, famine etc.) then it's none of anybody else's business how
much one eats.
I think you offer him a morality that he himself doesn't demonstrate.
Never have I seen anything from Mu to corroborate your sense of his
having taken a moral stance about consumption. He will, of course, now
say it was part of his concern all along and try to claim some new
ascendancy over his legion of critics.
In any event, the whole crippled and insufficiently considered concept
of the "diet" is the central issue. Chung and Mu say everybody should
eat no more than an average of two pounds of food per day. All the
time, no matter what their weight. No matter their size. No matter
their activity level. And use common sense to shape the program as
they each interpret it. Whatever that could mean with no science
behind it.
Neither Chung nor Mu are overly concerned with morality. They're both
motivated by "winning" the pseudo-contests in usenet. Somehow they
think that their OCD will be rewarded by conquest. Neither seems to
recognize that there are no prizes except the approval of each other
and the contempt of the rest. Disciples of *Bill Palmer* who can't
recognize the difference between dismissal and approval.
Pastorio
