Re: stop all bike paths etc please!!

OK, I'm outta this!

"Prisoner at War" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Papa Tom said:

Oh. So why didn't he just say that? 🙂

He's from the Bronx. ;-)

As a lifelong resident of a town that has gone from "country" to urban-like
suburb in less than fifty years, I've been torn about bike paths for some
time myself. Yeah, I wish the roads would go back to the way they were when
I was a kid and I was able to ride them anywhere I wanted to go. And I wish
drivers and cyclists could figure out how to live together and share the
pavement. But that isn't going to happen around here anytime soon.

Meanwhile, fewer and fewer people here are allowing their kids to even own
bicycles, let alone ride them anywhere. And I understand why. As an
experienced cyclist who has ridden the same roads on a regular basis for the
past 35-40 years, I find I'm constantly in life-threatening situations when
I get out on the road. So more and more, I'm packing my bike into the car
and driving to bike paths in Westchester, in New Jersey, and right here on
Long Island. A lot of other Long Islanders are doing the same. For me,
sometimes it's either that - or leave the bike in the garage and go eat a
sandwich.

Regarding this problem with the police and the laws of the road, I think
there needs to be better education all around. I ran bicycle safety
programs in our local schools for a number of years and always tried to
involve the police. Sadly, I never found one who understood the basic
bicycle laws.

Likewise, I am constantly frustrated by how little people know or CARE to
know about how to ride a bicycle safely in traffic. And why should they,
when the rules of safe automobile driving are so universally ignored?

The problems between cops and cyclists can be broken down to the basic
components of a fist fight: When two people are arguing and both run out of
intelligence, the fists inevitably start flying. Similarly, when neither
the cops nor the cyclists know what the hell they are talking about, the
bullying begins...and the cops usually win.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
>disappears.<<<<

Good point, but it's not going to happen. Not where I live, anyway.

Just recently, I sent two letters to the Majority Leader of the Nassau
County Legislature. She's a local resident whom I have known personally and
respected for many years. The subject of the letter was the rebuilding of a
major road that runs through our downtown area. The road is to be
straightened and widened. In the letter, I urged this usually sensible
county leader to require that the designers of the new road investigate the
possibility of either a bike lane in each direction or replacement of the
sidewalks with multi-use paths, the way I've seen it done in counties in
upstate New York.

Right now, we've got cyclists riding against traffic, on sidewalks that end
suddenly and dump them into car lanes...all kinds of dangerous stuff. As I
said in an earlier e-mail, the roads have even become scary for me, a very
experienced cyclist.

My letters were apparently discussed at a very high level meeting, to which
I was not invited to support my point. Days later, I ran into this county
leader at an event and she rushed toward me as if to report something I
really wanted to hear. Unfortunately, her news was that the issue of the
bike lanes had been discussed and it was decided that, if the county built
any kind of bicycle right-of-way in OUR community, then ALL local
communities would start asking for them.

Of course, I held my tongue because I've known this person for so long and
she has been very helpful to me in my past bicycle-related projects. But
what I wanted to say was "Duuuh! Perhaps everyone would want this because
it's THE RIGHT THING TO DO?????"

Ozark Bicycle said:

Papa Tom said:

I guess the reason I'm not "getting" this is that the bike paths here are
always empty. As cool as they are, they're just too far from anywhere to
attract a lot of people -- especially since most would have to buy racks for
their cars. I say, in New York, we don't need anymore paths. We just need
safe biking roads that lead to them.

If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Hmmm, like in the Netherlands?

JFT

Ozark Bicycle said:

Papa Tom said:

I guess the reason I'm not "getting" this is that the bike paths here are
always empty. As cool as they are, they're just too far from anywhere to
attract a lot of people -- especially since most would have to buy racks for
their cars. I say, in New York, we don't need anymore paths. We just need
safe biking roads that lead to them.

If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Hmmm, like in the Netherlands?

JFT

I agree again. However, the attitudes toward cycling have deteriorated far
quicker here in New York than they have out where you are. I travel a lot
for a living and the things I've seen in the midwest and the south make me
really envious.

People out here will never sit through a class on the rules of safe cycling.
Aren't you aware that all of us New Yorkers (especially Long Islanders)
already know everything there is to know about everything?

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Papa Tom said:

Quoted message said:

>>>If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
>>>disappears.<<<<

Good point, but it's not going to happen. Not where I live, anyway.

IMO, the path to "safe biking roads" begins thus:

1) Driver education: teach the rights of cyclists and the
responsibilities of drivers

2) Cyclist education: teach both the rights and the *responsibilities*
of cyclists

3) Police education: teach the police the law

4) Make cycling mainstream and accepted: work for cyclists rights to
the road, *not for bike paths*(which marginalize cyclists).
Discourage, loudly if necessary, those cyclists who ride on the
sidewalk, ride against traffic, blow through stop signs/red lights,
etc. Commute, shop and do errands on your bike.

Quoted message said:

<remainder snipped>

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Ozark Bicycle said:

Papa Tom said:

I guess the reason I'm not "getting" this is that the bike paths here are
always empty. As cool as they are, they're just too far from anywhere to
attract a lot of people -- especially since most would have to buy racks for
their cars. I say, in New York, we don't need anymore paths. We just need
safe biking roads that lead to them.

If there are enough "safe biking roads", the need for bike paths
disappears.

Hmmm, like in the Netherlands?

In more of the NL than you might like to think...
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/pix/ddbb3-3.jpg and
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/pix/ddbb5-1.jpg are pictures
taken on rural roads in NL, no fietspad in sight, no need for one
either. We'd meet cars on these roads and were treated with the sort of
courtesy that's typically what makes riding in NL safe.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Meanwhile, fewer and fewer people here are allowing their kids to even
own
bicycles, let alone ride them anywhere. And I understand why. As an
experienced cyclist who has ridden the same roads on a regular basis for
the
past 35-40 years, I find I'm constantly in life-threatening situations
when
I get out on the road. So more and more, I'm packing my bike into the
car
and driving to bike paths in Westchester, in New Jersey, and right here
on
Long Island. A lot of other Long Islanders are doing the same. For me,
sometimes it's either that - or leave the bike in the garage and go eat
a
sandwich.

I sympathise with your post.
We ranters must stick together.
A few years ago I flew into Orlando airport to trike around Florida camping.
After 400 miles I gave up and got a rental car.
My experience of triking on the roads and paths was stressfull and
dangerous-to me.
You should move over to Europe or holiday here especially in Holland or
Germany--East Germany has lots of space and brand new cycle facilities.
Ive triked in
Spain-France-Luxemburg-Switzerland-Belgium-Denmark-Holland-Poland-the Canary
Islands and dangerous Crete.
Only Crete is on a level with Florida.
Tam

I'm getting the impression that you're just trolling now, dude. Have I been
had?

"Prisoner at War" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Papa Tom said:

I'm not sure what that means, but it seemed worth repeating.

I just meant to applaud your efforts at bicycling advocacy, while
noting that my cruder efforts -- as would be apparent from my vitriol
when talking about such matters -- complement yours in the "bigger
picture" sense of things.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I understand your frustration and anger. However, I don't think
we
can overlook cyclists' responsibilities if we're going to trash auto
drivers
that way.

I was also obliquely questioning what "responsibilities" we truly
have. Not to cause accidents, sure, but simply being on the road --
even a highway, for whatever reason -- is not irresponsible of us as
bicyclists. I know that's a radical notion, and I'm not saying that
bicycles should be on highways, but to me it's the kind of violation
that's like jaywalking: no big deal.

Basically, aside from doing what we can to ensure our own safety as
cyclists, I think the onus should be on motorists to exercise the vast
majority of any responsibility involved in safety issues...they're the
ones with the power, as measured by horse-engine, and with greater
power goes greater responsibility, naturally....

Quoted message said:

I see plenty of cyclists causing situations where they - and
other people on the road - can get seriously hurt because of stupid,
irresponsible behavior.

I'm not sure what irresponsible behavior you might be referring to.
Cycling the wrong way, or on the wrong side of the road? Come on!
That's no big deal; not a crime at all -- the whole point of using a
bicycle for getting around, in fact: freedom!

If you mean sudden turns and swerves, well, motorists do that too --
but motorists should be driving so fast that they can't brake for a
sudden turn or stop. If the rider was a driver in a car, it would
still be the same thing; there's nothing particular to a bicycle or
being a bicyclist involved here.

Frankly, I just don't see how a bicyclist could ever be a fault. I
know it sounds really radical, but my attitude is the road belongs to
pedestrians -- and then bicyclists and skaters -- first and foremost.
Cars are -- should be -- an after-thought. Unfortunately, everything
is organized around cars -- whole neighborhoods are demolished for the
sake of cars being able to speed along on a highway -- such that we
can imagine such a ridiculous notion as "bicyclist responsibility."

The only responsibility a cyclist has is to pedestrians and him or
herself (and other cyclists). Motorists ought to be the ones on the
look-out. The same way most traffic laws assign a much greater
responsibility, if not total responsibility outright, to the motorist
on the "driver's side of an accident," so too should motorists bear
the vast majority of the burden for traffic safety all-around!

Quoted message said:

If we look at this issue as one that can only be
black or white, things will just go on the same way forever, and cyclists
and peds will continue to lose.

I don't see that we're continuing to lose at all. Indeed, bike paths
are all the rage in urban planning! Drivers are certainly much more
aware of us, and it seems that more and more people are actually
bicycling in the cities. There are many reasons for all these happy
developments, but I don't think being a "radical bicyclist" has hurt
the cause at all. Again, a fighter fights with both arms: the
radicals like me make the respectable get-along types like you seem a
bargain to deal with.

Quoted message said:

Have you noticed that those Critical Mass things never accomplish
anything?

I don't know how you measure their actions. It took Al Gore many
years before he got his Oscar and Nobel, after all.

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like
to at least /think/ my attitude to how I drive is similar to my attitude
to how I ride.

I'm sorry to hear that you are depressed

I find that for depression NOTHING works better than gardening. And in the
winter I
peruse books and catalogs and make plans/designs and lists of plants
I'll buy in the spring. Works like magic. Though I personally don't see
the appeal of bonsai, vegetable gardening, drying flowers, or hostas...
all very popular forms, totally boring to me.

Quoted message said:

I find if I treat other road users with consideration, whether I'm on a
bike or in the car, I typically get consideration back.

that's a good idea, give them flowers .

I like big, fluffy, colorful flowers... the kind that make cars slow
down in front of my house. Poppies, roses, delphiniums, tulips....

mk5000

"And sometimes it helps spark
my interest in things, allowing me to enjoy things much more than before.
But remember, I am a voracious reader, who REALLY enjoys this. Also note
the idea of listening to stories on tape. "--mary j biship

"Ozark Bicycle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you need to lower yer tension
levels, try a girly mag, AstroGlide and a quiet room.

some of them really do look in bad shape - really underweight.
mk5000

"We have a responsibility to secure our borders. We take this
responsibility seriously," --bush

In article <[email hidden]>,

marika said:

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I like
to at least /think/ my attitude to how I drive is similar to my attitude
to how I ride.

I'm sorry to hear that you are depressed

I find that for depression NOTHING works better than gardening.

One of the fellows where I work is tickled pink by the
Mr Magoo DVD he just acquired.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find if I treat other road users with consideration, whether I'm on a
bike or in the car, I typically get consideration back.

that's a good idea, give them flowers .

Or show 'em snapshots, embellished with lengthy, interesting
historical & background narration about the circumstances
of the pix.

Quoted message said:

I like big, fluffy, colorful flowers... the kind that make cars slow
down in front of my house. Poppies, roses, delphiniums, tulips....

And phlox, and *mums. And a good mix of grandiflora and
floribunda petunias (they're not just for windowboxes &
hanging baskets & confined planters.) I like it when
people purposely stick anomalies that aren't supposed to
aesthetically fit-in in their gardens, like a couple of
those humungous sunflowers towering over their dahliettas
and salvia. Of course to grow colourful flowers it helps to
be blessed with good, southern exposure and all-day sunlight.

I dunno why so many people are scared of a little colour.
"Oooh, I mustn't be noticable." Pffft.

Most of the cars people drive in Vancouver are grey or blue.
Most of the clothes people wear in Vancouver are grey or blue.
Sometimes, renegades dare to go with teal, or white, or black,
or even an unintrusively dull red. Depressed people tend to
bring everybody around them down with them. I guess some folx
are predilected to step up to the plate and apply the highlights
that cheer people up again.

Some day I must post pix of the polka-dot house (& garage)
and its adjacent natural garden I pass by on one of my
favourite urban routes.

Y'know what the biggest prob with the current trendy
Euro-style, so-called "city bikes" is? They're painted
flat black. They look as bleak as a Northern Temperate
Zone winter. They need some bright orange/solar pink/
Phoenician purple highlights.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One of the fellows where I work is tickled pink by the
Mr Magoo DVD he just acquired.

I love that actor, he is sort of good looking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find if I treat other road users with consideration, whether I'm on a
bike or in the car, I typically get consideration back.

that's a good idea, give them flowers .

Or show 'em snapshots, embellished with lengthy, interesting
historical & background narration about the circumstances
of the pix.

Quoted message said:

I like big, fluffy, colorful flowers... the kind that make cars slow
down in front of my house. Poppies, roses, delphiniums, tulips....

And phlox, and *mums. And a good mix of grandiflora and
floribunda petunias (they're not just for windowboxes &
hanging baskets & confined planters.) I like it when
people purposely stick anomalies that aren't supposed to
aesthetically fit-in in their gardens, like a couple of
those humungous sunflowers towering over their dahliettas
and salvia. Of course to grow colourful flowers it helps to
be blessed with good, southern exposure and all-day sunlight.

I dunno why so many people are scared of a little colour.

nobody should be> "Oooh, I mustn't be noticable." Pffft.> > Most of the
cars people drive in Vancouver are grey or blue.> Most of the clothes people
wear in Vancouver are grey or blue.
It sounds like the Soviet Union

Quoted message said:

Sometimes, renegades dare to go with teal, or white, or black,
or even an unintrusively dull red. Depressed people tend to
bring everybody around them down with them. I guess some folx
are predilected to step up to the plate and apply the highlights
that cheer people up again.

Some day I must post pix of the polka-dot house (& garage)
and its adjacent natural garden I pass by on one of my
favourite urban routes.

Y'know what the biggest prob with the current trendy
Euro-style, so-called "city bikes" is? They're painted
flat black. They look as bleak as a Northern Temperate
Zone winter. They need some bright orange/solar pink/
Phoenician purple highlights.

I shall read this poem over and over many times. It makes me smile every
time I read it

mk5000

"It's red berry is considered a Christmas token, giving us a natural
clustered native red berry on our doorsteps each year. This bush can be
manicured and shaped to produce interesting configurations of green clumps
in our yards. There are poodle shapes, ball shapes and even animal shapes
produced with this plant."--on the yaupon tree
http://woodlandstrees.blogspot.com/2007/11/test-posting.html

"tam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A few years ago I flew into Orlando airport to trike around Florida
camping.

wow that's commitment.
What would you do if you called ahead to make sure the flight is not
delayed

and it was

mk5000

"For example a download
speed test for my isp which is SBC/Yahoo DSL is at
http://support.sbcglobal.net/dsl/speedtest/ . This sort of speed test
often uses JAVA. "--cwdjrxyz

In article <[email hidden]>,

marika said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Y'know what the biggest prob with the current trendy
Euro-style, so-called "city bikes" is? They're painted
flat black. They look as bleak as a Northern Temperate
Zone winter. They need some bright orange/solar pink/
Phoenician purple highlights.

I shall read this poem over and over many times. It makes me smile every
time I read it

Tony Vaughan was my mentor.
http://www.sfheart.com/sfpoets/tony_vaughan.html

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony Vaughan was my mentor.
http://www.sfheart.com/sfpoets/tony_vaughan.html

nice

🙂

In article <[email hidden]>,

marika said:

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony Vaughan was my mentor.
http://www.sfheart.com/sfpoets/tony_vaughan.html

nice

🙂

He provided me with some pretty good inputs about
writing, and using/applying words & phrases and
imagery that seeps like ink into other people's
brains.

Getting into people's eyes & ears is one thing.
Getting intimately into their hearts & minds is
quite another.

Words can be very powerful when they're properly
fletched and well-aimed. Words can also be softened
so they're like marshmallows. That's whatcha call:
"diplomacy". It's a subtle art that eludes those
who haven't yet outgrown puerile, ham-fisted expression,
and invade & occupy foreign countries and then complain
about "insurgents."

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tony Vaughan was my mentor.
http://www.sfheart.com/sfpoets/tony_vaughan.html

nice

🙂

He provided me with some pretty good inputs about
writing, and using/applying words & phrases and
imagery that seeps like ink into other people's
brains.

Getting into people's eyes & ears is one thing.
Getting intimately into their hearts & minds is
quite another.

Words can be very powerful when they're properly
fletched and well-aimed. Words can also be softened
so they're like marshmallows. That's whatcha call:
"diplomacy". It's a subtle art that eludes those
who haven't yet outgrown puerile, ham-fisted expression,
and invade & occupy foreign countries and then complain
about "insurgents."

sign, indeed

I like that fletched and aimed part

milk is to cream is to buttermilk is as to butter
is as to

larve is as to pupa is to caterpillar as is as to butterfly

mk5000
"If I wasn't so busyI might buy a clock
I'd stop to smell roses,And frolic on docks...
That is, if I only had time.
If I wasn't so busy
I'd brew up time-stew
Then I'd serve up a bowl"-- a children's poem
Sylvia C hall

"Papa Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

People out here will never sit through a class on the rules of safe
cycling.

usually the classes are too far

ok if it is right across the street that is good. At least I won't have to
worry about driving in evening or night light.
I would mapquest the trip and see if there are any alternatives , although I
am doubtful.

Quoted message said:

Aren't you aware that all of us New Yorkers (especially Long Islanders)
already know everything there is to know about everything?

One of the definite options is you pick a mentor and I know that you have to
figure out a plan of action.

mk5000

"And when the movie starts, it's deceptively quiet. Philip Seymour Hoffman
plays Andy, a relatively successful accountant whose desperately in love
with Gina, his wife, played by Marisa Tomei. While on vacation in Brazil,
they seem to reconnect, to discover what's important, even if it soon
becomes apparent that they're both moving in different directions.
Once home, Andy feels that getting back to Brazil and starting all over
again will save their marriage. He sets out on a dangerous course to try and
get them there, involving his younger brother Hank (Ethan Hawke) in a plot
meant to knock off their parents jewelry store"--
http://tragicrighthip.blogspot.com/2007/11/trh-movie-before-devil-knows-youre-dead.html