Re: shelled nuts

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply,

Quoted message said:

"I want to eat about 60 grams/2 ounces of nuts each day."

Why the compulsion? Yes, nut eating is associated with good
health, but I suspect mostly because people who eat them pay
attention to their other foods. You should eat them because they
taste super! (I hereby declare a bias - see
http://sankey.ws/crf/)

Well, the reason I want to eat about 2 ounces of nuts is because I like
them and they are a good source of fat/protein. Or so I thought. It is
not that I have to force myself to eat them, far from it.

Quoted message said:

"shelled nuts are already rancid in the store"

Nonsense! If a nut is rancid you can taste it, if it is mouldy
you can see it. You won't find either at a good dealer.

That's what I thought, but I am getting confused after reading so many
pufa = dangerous stories, I guess.

Quoted message said:

"I would buy packaged nuts, not the ones that lay in plastic
boxes in the open air all day."

Packaged nuts can be very old. I always buy from a dealer who
keeps them open so that I can smell them and check their
condition.

That sounds reasonable indeed.

Quoted message said:

Look for a store with high turnover - I get mine at
Canada's Bulk Barn (except for butternuts and black walnuts,
which I collect locally). Of course, don't go near a dealer that
displays them under strong lights that keep them warm.

Unfortunately, I have not found a good dealer yet.

Quoted message said:

"how bad are dry roasted nuts"

It depends on the dealer. Moderate dry-roasting improves flavour
considerably and reduces most phytotoxins (which are chemicals
the plant uses to control seed germination, but some of which
cause problems with our digestion). Over-roasting can damage food
value (as many on this group will tell you very loudly!) Try to
find a raw nut you like - I love almonds and hazels that way.

I now love soaked almonds, and I like raw almonds too. I used to eat oil
roasted almonds, and I recently tasted them again, and found them horrible!

Quoted message said:

"I cannot even buy raw walnuts here, even the ones that you buy
in the shell appear to be roasted (sometimes they are black)."

If walnuts are in the shell, they have not been roasted or the
shell would be split open.

Maybe they are just dried then.

Quoted message said:

If they are black it is because they
are of low quality

I assumed they were burned, and threw them away. And I do not buy again
from a place where there was more than an occassional black nut.

Quoted message said:

- the lighter-coloured a walnut/ butternut/
pecan, the higher the quality of taste. If you are in the USA,
check Hammons Products on the web - they sell top quality
American black walnuts.

I am in Europe. About the only thing I am jealous of Americans for is
the online stores that sell high quality food products.

veggiegirl

Read some of my posts. Search for montygram. I tried the diet you are
thinking about and almost died. My body couldn't digest food. I am
still taking stomach acid and pepsin supplements. Use coconut oil for
a good source of fat, but don't think that you have to eat large
amounts of fat. Also, most natural food has some fat in it.
Unsaturated fatty acids are very dangerous because they go rancid very
quickly, unless protected by very strong antioxidants. Considering
that free radical damage is the root cause of "chronic disease," one
would be wise to go easy with nuts. Walnuts may be the worst nut, in
that it's difficult to get them fresh, at least around here, even if
you buy them in the shell. They smell rancid as soon as you open the
shell, which is as bad a sign as you could get. Don't listen to
nutritionists, listen to biochemists or physiologists. "Nutrition" is
based upon generalizations and statistical studies, not on an
understanding of underlying mechanisms.

montygram said:

Read some of my posts. Search for montygram. I tried the diet you are
thinking about and almost died.

A universe of one lacks a certain universality, I would say. Couple that
with your phobia about fat and rancidity, well, next case...

Pastorio

Quoted message said:

My body couldn't digest food. I am
still taking stomach acid and pepsin supplements. Use coconut oil for
a good source of fat, but don't think that you have to eat large
amounts of fat. Also, most natural food has some fat in it.
Unsaturated fatty acids are very dangerous because they go rancid very
quickly, unless protected by very strong antioxidants. Considering
that free radical damage is the root cause of "chronic disease," one
would be wise to go easy with nuts. Walnuts may be the worst nut, in
that it's difficult to get them fresh, at least around here, even if
you buy them in the shell. They smell rancid as soon as you open the
shell, which is as bad a sign as you could get. Don't listen to
nutritionists, listen to biochemists or physiologists. "Nutrition" is
based upon generalizations and statistical studies, not on an
understanding of underlying mechanisms.

veggiegirl said:

I am in Europe. About the only thing I am jealous of Americans for is
the online stores that sell high quality food products.

Then you need to visit to see what else there is. I loved living in
Europe and stayed in several countries. But there's much to appreciate
here as well.

Let me know when you're coming. My family will welcome you and take you
shopping and sightseeing.

Pastorio

montygram said:

Read some of my posts. Search for montygram. I tried the diet you are
thinking about and almost died. My body couldn't digest food. I am
still taking stomach acid and pepsin supplements. Use coconut oil for
a good source of fat, but don't think that you have to eat large
amounts of fat. Also, most natural food has some fat in it.
Unsaturated fatty acids are very dangerous because they go rancid very
quickly, unless protected by very strong antioxidants. Considering
that free radical damage is the root cause of "chronic disease," one
would be wise to go easy with nuts. Walnuts may be the worst nut, in
that it's difficult to get them fresh, at least around here, even if
you buy them in the shell. They smell rancid as soon as you open the
shell, which is as bad a sign as you could get. Don't listen to
nutritionists, listen to biochemists or physiologists. "Nutrition" is
based upon generalizations and statistical studies, not on an
understanding of underlying mechanisms.

If your body can't digest food, then you do indeed have a unique
problem I'd look for the cause if I were you, rather than diagnosis
myself. I don't think I've ever encountered a rancid smelling nut,
but then I buy them from places with a lot of turnover. I'll also
take the Harvard Nutritional Studies over someone who has an odd
experience with digesting his food. What IS the matter with you?
I've always been able to eat and digest anything I please. I'm
age 75 and never have had a chronic disease. I must be doing
something right🙂

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:20:34 +0200, veggiegirl wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought, but I am getting confused after reading so many
pufa = dangerous stories, I guess.

Do you get more than 10 percent of you daily calories from PUFAs?

Hi Montygram,

Quoted message said:

Read some of my posts.

I did.

Quoted message said:

Search for montygram. I tried the diet you are
thinking about and almost died.

I am glad you recovered.
However: I know lots of people that are on your diet (meat-eating), that
get all kinds of cancers and heart disease.

Now you'll probably say that your diet has nothing in common with
the standard american meat eating diet. Well: I think it is very likely
that my vegan diet is very different from yours as well.

I think a lot of vegans that do not feel well do not eat enough green
vegetables, and often too much grains. (There's an excellent article
about that here: http://www.vegsource.com/harris/ten_categories.htm ,
should there be any other vegans in this newsgroup).

Quoted message said:

My body couldn't digest food.

That sounds serious.

Quoted message said:

I am
still taking stomach acid and pepsin supplements. Use coconut oil for
a good source of fat, but don't think that you have to eat large
amounts of fat. Also, most natural food has some fat in it.
Unsaturated fatty acids are very dangerous because they go rancid very
quickly, unless protected by very strong antioxidants.

Hence my question: how well protected are shelled nuts.

Quoted message said:

Considering
that free radical damage is the root cause of "chronic disease," one
would be wise to go easy with nuts. Walnuts may be the worst nut, in
that it's difficult to get them fresh, at least around here, even if
you buy them in the shell. They smell rancid as soon as you open the
shell, which is as bad a sign as you could get.

I do not smell anything wrong and they taste ok to me. But then I am not
sure, maybe I do not know how they are supposed to smell or taste.

veggiegirl.

Enrico C said:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:20:34 +0200, veggiegirl wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought, but I am getting confused after reading so many
pufa = dangerous stories, I guess.

Do you get more than 10 percent of you daily calories from PUFAs?

Not in general, I think. However, on some days when I eat more
sunflower, sesame and pumpkin seeds I think I do get that. Is
that a problem?

veggiegirl.

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 23:37:22 +0200, veggiegirl wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C said:

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:20:34 +0200, veggiegirl wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

That's what I thought, but I am getting confused after reading so many
pufa = dangerous stories, I guess.

Do you get more than 10 percent of you daily calories from PUFAs?

Not in general, I think. However, on some days when I eat more
sunflower, sesame and pumpkin seeds I think I do get that. Is
that a problem?

I gather the upper limit for PUFAs is still controversial.

The International Society for the Study of Fatty Acids and Lipids (Issfal),
in its latest recommendations, could not arrive to a conclusion!
http://www.issfal.org.uk/PUFA%20intakes.htm

There are, anyway, recommendations about the desirable n6:n3 ratio, and on
a healthy intake of specific n3 PUFAs (ALA, EPA and DHA),

from Issfal
http://www.issfal.org.uk/PUFA%20intakes.htm

and from national health bodies
http://www.issfal.org.uk/Global%20Recommendations.htm

Italian guide lines (LARN), by the way, recommend 2% n6 and 0,5% n3 PUFAs
for adults, with a "usual intake" upper limit of 15% for n3+n6 and 5% for
n3 PUFAs alone.
http://www.sinu.it/larn/lipidi.asp (in Italian)

Besides, according to the Eritsland 2000 study, an upper limit of 10%
energy for n-6 PUFAs should be safe, especially when it comes with adequate
antioxidant protecion ((especially vitamin E), but a daily intake of PUFAs
greater than 10% of total energy is not recommended.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/197S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=Eritsland&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1121094084861_5945&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=ajcn

=====================================================

http://www.issfal.org.uk/PUFA%20intakes.htm

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR INTAKE OF POLYUNSATURATED FATTY ACIDS IN HEALTHY ADULTS

(Revised in accordance with the recommended changes agreed by the ISSFAL
Board at ISSFAL 2004, June 28, 2004)

[...]

A. Specific recommendations about the intake of polyunsaturates (PUFA):

1. An adequate linoleic acid (LA) intake : 2 energy %

2. A healthy intake of a-linolenic acid (ALA): 0.7 energy %

3. For cardiovascular health, a minimum intake of eicosapentaenoic
acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) combined, of: 500 mg/d.

B. A recognition that there may be a healthy upper limit to the
intake of LA

[...]

The current dietary intake of LA in most populations is higher than the 2
energy % that is adequate for health. Questions recently have been raised
about the possible unhealthy effects of high intake of w6 PUFA. Because of
this concern, there is a need to indicate not only what dietary LA intake
is adequate, but also how much can be consumed without undue risk to
health. No conclusive scientific evidence regarding the issue of a safe
upper limit for w6 PUFA is presently available.
[...]
This committee recognises that some national bodies have already taken a
stand and recommended a healthy upper limit for LA intake. At present, this
committee could not reach consensus and has no recommendation to make on
this question.

=====================================================

http://www.issfal.org.uk/Global%20Recommendations.htm

Other International recommendations on dietary polyunsaturate intake

=====================================================

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/197S?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=1&author1=Eritsland&andorexacttitle=and&andorexacttitleabs=and&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1121094084861_5945&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&journalcode=ajcn

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 71, No. 1, 197S-201S, January
2000
© 2000 American Society for Clinical Nutrition
Supplements
Safety considerations of polyunsaturated fatty acids1,2
Jan Eritsland

ABSTRACT

The n–6 and n–3 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) are essential
nutrients; intake of relatively small amounts of these fatty acids prevents
nutritional deficiencies. Replacing dietary saturated fat with PUFAs may
confer health gains. Experimental data support the notion that high intake
of n–6 PUFAs may increase in vivo lipid peroxidation. This effect may be
counteracted by dietary antioxidant supplementation. The influence of a
high n–3 PUFA intake on measures of lipid peroxidation has been equivocal.
In clinical trials, subjects who consumed diets rich in n–6 or n–3 PUFAs
had fewer atherothrombotic endpoints than did control groups. In this
report, data regarding the influence of PUFAs on lipid peroxidation as well
as on cholesterol and glucose metabolism, hemostasis, and other aspects of
interest are reviewed and discussed. Currently, daily intake of PUFAs as

Quoted message said:

10% of total energy is not recommended. Below this ceiling there is little

evidence that high dietary intake of n–6 or n–3 PUFAs implies health risks.

[...]

CONCLUSION

Evidence suggests that dietary PUFAs, when substituted for saturated fatty
acids, will confer net health gains, most notably in cardiovascular
disease. An upper limit of 10% of energy for n–6 PUFAs is presently
recommended by experts, but a palatable and practicable diet will usually
not exceed this limit. It also seems wise to ensure a high dietary intake
of antioxidants. The risk of adverse effects of dietary PUFAs, whether on
cholesterol or glucose metabolism or hemostatic function (except for large
doses of n–3 PUFAs), seems small.

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