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Re: Sharpening knives

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01 / Original postRe: Sharpening knivesMark D · 8 Jun 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–7Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #7JimLane · 9 Jun 2005

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
8 June 2005
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9 June 2005
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Mark D
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  1. Original post
    Mark D
    Archived post
    #1

    Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
    the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

    Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
    one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
    is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
    stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
    over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.

    When using a stone, the proper method is to draw the knife across the
    stone in an X pattern from heel to tip, flipping, and alternating sides,
    and in effect simulate trying to cut a very thin slice off the stone,
    like you're slicing off a paper thin slice off a Roast Beef. The
    incorrect way, is to drag the knife across the stone in a similar
    fashion that a Barber wipes a straight razor across a Leather Strop.

    Sharpeners like the Lansky duplicate the exact same angle on every
    stroke, as the blade is clamped in a vise jig, achieving a perfect
    factory type edge every time. The one I have came with 5 stones from
    Extra Coarse to Fine ($30 from a Sportmart in Chicago)
    I then touch up with the Spyderco Sharpmaker, and assure you, they will
    shave without cream!

    Once an established 20 degree angle is set on your knife, they only need
    periodic touch up with medium, and fine stones from time to time, to
    bring them back to razor sharpness, so you won't have to repeatedly have
    to use either the coarse, or extra coarse stones, and be removing a lot
    of metal from the blade. (Also 25, or 17 degree selection is achievable
    on the Lansky but the former is good for camp knifes, and the latter for
    straight razors)

    I typically use my Spyderco Sharpmaker (Ceramic Crock Sticks with
    medium, and fine grit rods) for touch up, after the intial sharpening
    with the Lansky Sharpener.

    By using these manual Sharpeners I mention above, or some type of manual
    Ceramic Crock Sticks, you will never damage a good knife blade due to
    generated heat. Definitely, the Chef's Choice Grinders are not the way
    to go for fine, expensive knifes. For the Pakistani Imitation Buck
    Knifes, sure go ahead! lol

    As for water stones, I've noticed the Japanese Sushi Chefs use these
    with great success, and in many cases, these sushi knifes are extremely
    expensive, exceeding the cost of even a Henckle's Chef Knife. Thier
    knifes need to be straight razor sharp to effectively work. Mark

    Report
  2. Peter Aitken
    Archived post
    #2

    "Mark D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
    the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

    Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
    one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
    is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
    stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
    over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.

    <snipped>

    And hence the beauty of the Edgepro. It sets and holds the precise angle for
    you while giving you the choice of various stones.

    --
    Peter Aitken
    Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

    Report
  3. Sheldon
    Archived post
    #3
    Peter Aitken said:

    "Mark D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Hi All, I'll also second the recommendation for the Lansky Type, and
    the Spyderco Sharpmaker, I use them both.

    Yes, Stones both artificial, and natural can be used in conjunction with
    one another to develop a razor sharp edge, but the problems with stones,
    is that most inexperienced people do not know how to properly use a
    stone, and even the adept-experienced cannot repeatably slide a knife
    over a stone at the exact same angle for every stroke.

    <snipped>

    And hence the beauty of the Edgepro. It sets and holds the precise angle.

    There is no "the precise angle"... do you really think a carrot cares
    if it's sliced with the potato blade? duh

    Blade geometry is theoretical and at best is theory within tolerance...
    +/- 3º is perfectly acceptible and most anyone can learn to work
    within a few degrees, a skilled person can easily maintain .5º with
    unfailing repeatability... no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry
    and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
    haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
    the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
    learning to sharpen. To maintain *meaningful* precise geometry with
    metal configuring one would need to invest many tens of thousands of
    dollars in professional precision grinding/honing machinery, a few
    hundred bucks gets you mere toys... and all for naught when after all
    is done one puts the blade to a *hand held* burnishing steel (yes,
    burnishing, that's the correct nomenclature for what is performed with
    a knife steel). Skilled craftsmen sharpen all their single point
    cutters themselves and with whetstones... do you really think a skilled
    cabinetmaker sharpens a plane blade or chisel at the same "the precise
    angle" for every application/every wood.... and if they're truly
    skilled they'd never trust their personal hand tools to someone else to
    maintain, let alone some fercocktah gadgetry.

    My personal opinion is that if one hasn't the skill to properly sharpen
    a blade freehend with a whetstone then they certainly haven't the skill
    to wield said blade properly. Anyone with a bit of practice can learn
    to achieve superiour results sharpening kitchen cutlery by hand with a
    whetstone, certainly far better results than with any of those
    fercocktah gadgets. And if you're a cheap [censored] and don't want to
    invest the $20-$30 for a decent whetstone than go to the auto parts
    store and buy a few sheets of wet/dry paper (240, 320, 400 grit is a
    good assortment). Next visit your local glass shop and ask if they'll
    sell you a scrap of 3/8" plate glass, about 8" x 10" is fine... the
    glass becomes your flat surface. With ordinary masking tape affix the
    oxide paper to the glass... spritz with a little water and you're in
    business for under $5. To hold your grinding plate firmly make a
    little jig, simply hammer a couple of nails into a scrap of lumber so
    their heds are slightly below your work surface and clamp it to a work
    table. I prefer to use kerosene instead of water (actually I use
    diesel fuel)... regardless, sharpening can get messy, so I do my
    sharpening outdoors... real daylight is the best kind of light for
    doing this type of work anyway. Anyone who says they do sharpening on
    their kitchen counters has to have some really fercoctah counters...
    makes me really wonder what those pinheads call sharp.

    Sheldon

    Report
  4. JimLane
    Archived post
    #4

    Sheldon wrote:

    no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry

    Quoted message said:

    and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
    haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
    the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
    learning to sharpen.

    Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?

    jim

    Report
  5. Sheldon
    Archived post
    #5
    JimLame said:

    Sheldon wrote:

    no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry

    Quoted message said:

    and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
    haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
    the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
    learning to sharpen.

    Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?

    I made no contradiction, you functionally illiterate Jim Lame [censored].

    Sheldon

    Report
  6. Mark D
    Archived post
    #6

    Sheldon, Your last post, although lengthy, and thorough didn't make
    much sense to me, and I doubt anyone else.

    I myself would NEVER take a good blade to sandpaper, and suggesting that
    someone else should is bad advice IMO.

    My suggestions, and recommendations for both the Lansky, and Spyderco
    Sharpeners were sound, and these shapeners will permit anyone to become
    an instant professional. Not everyone has the ability to shapen a blade
    like a butcher who's been in business for years, nor do they really care
    to learn either.

    If you've never tried the two sharpeners I mentioned above, maybe you
    should. Neither are "gadgets" as you describe, and your suggested
    methods using kerosene, sandpaper, and a glass plate are poor at best.

    Maybe, this method would be suitable for cheap, disposable knifes, but
    doubtful if you'd have any success with a blade with a high Rockwell
    Hardnes. My best friend ruined the edge of his Western Westmark Hunting
    Knife using this method, a knife no longer made, and pretty valuable
    also. I have the set of 3. With a value at about $600 for the set.

    Also, it's doubtful, that anyone can repeatedly make a pass within 1/2
    degree freehand without some sort of aid. I've seen cabinet makers
    sharpen thier chisels with the aid of a coin to support the blade. I'll
    agree with your statement though, that an all purpose knife will work
    just fine, if the blade is at 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, and even out to say 25
    degrees. Nothing states a blade "Has' to be at an exact 20 degrees to
    be shaving sharp.

    Use whatever methods you feel work for you.
    Mark

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  7. JimLane
    Archived post
    #7
    Sheldon said:


    JimLame said:

    Sheldon wrote:

    no amount of justifying micky mouse gadgetry

    Quoted message said:

    and its associated hyperbole can negate the fact that some folks simply
    haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone, so they are who buy
    the fercocktah gadgets and then spend more effort justifying than
    learning to sharpen.

    Which of your contradictory statements do you not understand?

    I made no contradiction, you functionally illiterate Jim Lame [censored].

    Sheldon

    Yes you did you moronic mentalmidget:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    some folks simply haven't the skills/dexterity to use a whetstone

    The key word is dexterity, moron, then couple that with:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than learning to sharpen.

    Some may never have the dexterity to approach the use of a gadget.

    Any words go over your head?

    jim

    Report

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