Re: Scary lunch

maxo said:

kantspel said:

Anyway, I probably could have been paying more attention but this guy
made a major contribution to causing the incident.

No, he caused the accident by clearly violating the law.

You should be glad that he's OK and that ya'll aren't hurt worse. What you
shouldn't have done is get him a new wheel--I don't care how nice he was.
That somehow legitimizes him being a moron.

Would you be cordial if you wrecked with a car driving on the wrong side
of the road? I think not.

He needs to reimburse you for the wheel and any bodywork on the car.

Again, glad everybody's OK, but riding a bike takes responsibility.

As does driving a car.

Mr./Ms. Kantspel has already owned up to not paying full attention--in
part because of cell phone use; in part because we all tend to pay
less than full attention once a route becomes familiar.

[rant] We pilot these 1,500 to 7,000 pound vehicles blithely unaware
of the damage we can do to others. We readily eat, read, shave, apply
makeup, yak on the phone, etc., etc., though engaging in those
activities clearly devotes our attention from the *safe* navigation of
these lethal weapons. There's an old legal principle: Your right to
swing your fist ends where my face begins. When you're on the road
with other people, you have a responsibility to those other people,
too [/rant]

I *don't* know about the laws where this happened, but in my little
narrow view of the world, the cyclist shouldn't have been there *and*
Mr./Ms. Kantspel should have seen him nonetheless. IOW, this one
should not have happened.

Neil Brooks said:

maxo said:

kantspel said:

Anyway, I probably could have been paying more attention but this guy
made a major contribution to causing the incident.

No, he caused the accident by clearly violating the law.

You should be glad that he's OK and that ya'll aren't hurt worse. What you
shouldn't have done is get him a new wheel--I don't care how nice he was.
That somehow legitimizes him being a moron.

Would you be cordial if you wrecked with a car driving on the wrong side
of the road? I think not.

He needs to reimburse you for the wheel and any bodywork on the car.

Again, glad everybody's OK, but riding a bike takes responsibility.

As does driving a car.

Mr./Ms. Kantspel has already owned up to not paying full attention--in
part because of cell phone use; in part because we all tend to pay
less than full attention once a route becomes familiar.

[rant] We pilot these 1,500 to 7,000 pound vehicles blithely unaware
of the damage we can do to others. We readily eat, read, shave, apply
makeup, yak on the phone, etc., etc., though engaging in those
activities clearly devotes our attention from the *safe* navigation of
these lethal weapons. There's an old legal principle: Your right to
swing your fist ends where my face begins. When you're on the road
with other people, you have a responsibility to those other people,
too [/rant]

That should have been, " . . . clearly diverts our attention . . . . "
I got distracted ;-)

Quoted message said:

I *don't* know about the laws where this happened, but in my little
narrow view of the world, the cyclist shouldn't have been there *and*
Mr./Ms. Kantspel should have seen him nonetheless. IOW, this one
should not have happened.

maxo said:

kantspel said:

Anyway, I probably could have been paying more attention but this

guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

made a major contribution to causing the incident.

No, he caused the accident by clearly violating the law.

Apparently, he didn't. OP invented the law breaking part.

The OP, on the other hand, did by stopping in the crosswalk (at least
in my state). If the OP started forward, and the cyclist hit at the
passenger side window (as described), how far way could he/she have
possibly been? This is a very common type of crash where there are
riders on sidewalks or sidepaths, the motorist making a right turn
concentrates on oncoming traffic from the left and doesn't really check
the right. This can be exacerbated by staring left, waiting for an
opening in traffic, then proceeding without checking right again after
an arbitrary length of time.

Quoted message said:

You should be glad that he's OK and that ya'll aren't hurt worse.

What you

Quoted message said:

shouldn't have done is get him a new wheel--I don't care how nice he

was.

Quoted message said:

That somehow legitimizes him being a moron.

Would you be cordial if you wrecked with a car driving on the wrong

side

Quoted message said:

of the road? I think not.

He needs to reimburse you for the wheel and any bodywork on the car.

Again, glad everybody's OK, but riding a bike takes responsibility.

Driving a car takes more. Remember, sidewalks are frequently used by
elderly and child riders, and, in the case I had, by joggers travelling
at a similar speed. It's impossible to assign blame without knowing
more of the details, but on the balance now, I'd put it on the OP.

Peter Cole said:

maxo said:

kantspel said:

Anyway, I probably could have been paying more attention but this

guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

made a major contribution to causing the incident.

No, he caused the accident by clearly violating the law.

Apparently, he didn't. OP invented the law breaking part.

The OP, on the other hand, did by stopping in the crosswalk (at least
in my state). If the OP started forward, and the cyclist hit at the
passenger side window (as described), how far way could he/she have
possibly been? This is a very common type of crash where there are
riders on sidewalks or sidepaths, the motorist making a right turn
concentrates on oncoming traffic from the left and doesn't really check
the right. This can be exacerbated by staring left, waiting for an
opening in traffic, then proceeding without checking right again after
an arbitrary length of time.

Quoted message said:

You should be glad that he's OK and that ya'll aren't hurt worse.

What you

Quoted message said:

shouldn't have done is get him a new wheel--I don't care how nice he

was.

Quoted message said:

That somehow legitimizes him being a moron.

Would you be cordial if you wrecked with a car driving on the wrong

side

Quoted message said:

of the road? I think not.

He needs to reimburse you for the wheel and any bodywork on the car.

Again, glad everybody's OK, but riding a bike takes responsibility.

Driving a car takes more. Remember, sidewalks are frequently used by
elderly and child riders, and, in the case I had, by joggers travelling
at a similar speed. It's impossible to assign blame without knowing
more of the details, but on the balance now, I'd put it on the OP.

I'm not really looking to defend myself, more interested in yalls take
on the situation. But I'll fill in some more detail on the matter.

The light was red and I was taking a right. I had checked the sidewalk
area to the right for peds while approaching the intersection, but
because of a decorative wall that abuts the sidewalk you can't see all
that far down the sidewalk during the approach. That wall was a
contributer to me not seeing him, if I had looked down the sidewalk
after I stopped I probably would have seen him but it's never crossed my
mind to look that far down the walk, there is plenty of visibilty to see
an approaching walker or jogger but a quickish bike would be outside
that range. I came to a stop, probably slightly inside the crosswalk,
legal, no, but for a right turn at this intersection it's normal or else
you can't see down the road for oncomming traffic.

As soon as I started to accelerate he smacked into me.

kantspel said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not really looking to defend myself, more interested in yalls

take

Quoted message said:

on the situation. But I'll fill in some more detail on the matter.

The light was red and I was taking a right. I had checked the

sidewalk

Quoted message said:

area to the right for peds while approaching the intersection, but
because of a decorative wall that abuts the sidewalk you can't see

all

Quoted message said:

that far down the sidewalk during the approach. That wall was a
contributer to me not seeing him, if I had looked down the sidewalk
after I stopped I probably would have seen him but it's never crossed

my

Quoted message said:

mind to look that far down the walk, there is plenty of visibilty to

see

Quoted message said:

an approaching walker or jogger but a quickish bike would be outside
that range. I came to a stop, probably slightly inside the crosswalk,

Quoted message said:

legal, no, but for a right turn at this intersection it's normal or

else

Quoted message said:

you can't see down the road for oncomming traffic.

As soon as I started to accelerate he smacked into me.

One question: if you had been taking your driving test, do you think
you would've passed?

kantspel said:

hat wall was a contributer to me
not seeing him, if I had looked down the sidewalk after I stopped I
probably would have seen him but it's never crossed my mind to look that
far down the walk, there is plenty of visibilty to see an approaching
walker or jogger but a quickish bike would be outside that range.

Exactly--not only was he breaking the law he was violating common sense by
using excessive speed in a low visibility situation. It's Darwinism at
work. If you'd written that you'd killed him, I'd still think you were
innocent and he was a dumbass committing suicide.

Driving does involve defensive skills to avoid the stupids, but there's a
limit to how far you can take that--you can't see through masonry, and
adults shouldn't ride bikes on sidewalks--but IF they do--they're pretty
stupid to not slow down for an intersection.

The cell phone is not the issue--perhaps you would have noticed him w/o
it, but that does not make it your fault. I used to be a raging anti
cell-phone guy, then I had to drive a lot in the city, and started using
it in very slow stop and go where my concentration was not needed, or out
on lonely empty stretches of interstate, where there's nothing to hit. I
don't listen to music or do a second distracting activity while using it.
Yeah, it's a risk factor--but so's changing the radio station--you need to
put it down when your focus is needed, but few folks do so. What I do hate
are those hands-free people, that are a lot like the cyclists that think
that helmets *prevent* accidents.

Oops, that'll cause some fallout. :P