Re: Scary lunch

Peter Cole said:

kantspel said:

He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
remember that.

Where is it that has that law?

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like
driving your car on the sidewalk....

W

The Wogster said:

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like
driving your car on the sidewalk....

And that's a bad thing /because/...???

The Wogster said:

Peter Cole said:

kantspel said:

He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
remember that.

Where is it that has that law?

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like

Quoted message said:

driving your car on the sidewalk....

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

Peter Cole said:

The Wogster said:

Peter Cole said:

kantspel wrote:

>He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
>on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
>remember that.

Where is it that has that law?

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like

Quoted message said:

driving your car on the sidewalk....

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

Actually, I just wasn't clear. Riding against traffic is bad and riding
on the sidewalk is bad, both together wouldn't produce a double ticket,
i'm sure traffic flow on the sidewalk isn't regulated, but saftey wise
it's a double foux pas. If the guy had been coming from the left there
wouldn't have been a problem, if the guy had been on the road (in the
proper lane) there wouldn't have been a problem.

Bill Sornson said:

The Wogster said:

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like
driving your car on the sidewalk....

And that's a bad thing /because/...???

Pedestrians wear sharp objects like rings or belt buckles that can
scratch your paint.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

kantspel said:

Peter Cole wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

Actually, I just wasn't clear. Riding against traffic is bad and

riding

Quoted message said:

on the sidewalk is bad, both together wouldn't produce a double

ticket,

Quoted message said:

i'm sure traffic flow on the sidewalk isn't regulated, but saftey

wise

Quoted message said:

it's a double foux pas. If the guy had been coming from the left

there

Quoted message said:

wouldn't have been a problem, if the guy had been on the road (in the

Quoted message said:

proper lane) there wouldn't have been a problem.

So it was your invention...

"He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
remember that."

I guess you straightened him out.

Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

The Wogster said:

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's
like driving your car on the sidewalk....

And that's a bad thing /because/...???

Pedestrians wear sharp objects like rings or belt buckles that can
scratch your paint.

That's why you never just sideswipe 'em. They can't scratch much from
/underneath/ the vehicle.

Bill "alignment always off for some reason" S.

kantspel wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

...Riding against traffic is bad and riding
on the sidewalk is bad, both together wouldn't produce a double

ticket,

Quoted message said:

i'm sure traffic flow on the sidewalk isn't regulated, but saftey

wise

Quoted message said:

it's a double foux pas. If the guy had been coming from the left

there

Quoted message said:

wouldn't have been a problem, if the guy had been on the road (in the

Quoted message said:

proper lane) there wouldn't have been a problem.

Seein as how this character rammed the side of your
vehicle, I would say the collision had little to do with
his riding counterflow. He just wasn't looking where he
was going. There is nothing so dangerous about riding
counterflow on the sidewalk that can't be solved with a
little common sense and awareness.

R

kantspel said:

Peter Cole said:

The Wogster said:

Peter Cole wrote:

>kantspel wrote:
>
>
>
>>He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
>>on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
>>remember that.
>
>
>Where is it that has that law?

A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's like

Quoted message said:

driving your car on the sidewalk....

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

Actually, I just wasn't clear. Riding against traffic is bad and riding
on the sidewalk is bad, both together wouldn't produce a double ticket,

I don't beleive you can a ticket for riding against traffic on the
sidewalk are not in 'traffic'. Where I live adults riding on the
sidewalk are against the law but I doubt the cops will give a ticket
to a person riding on the sidewalk with children. I know by age 13 we
were warn by the police not to ride on the sidewalk anymore.

--
Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email hidden]
http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/ My HA Blog

Peter Cole wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

You must live in a different Massachusetts than the one I cycled in for 43
years. Because in the one I rode in it most certainly was illegal
(statewide) to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in a business, commercial, or
industrial district, or in a residential district if the rider was over 16.
IOW, adults on the sidewalk is always a no-no.

Austin
--
I'm pedaling as fast as I durn well please!
There are no X characters in my address

AustinMN said:

Peter Cole wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

You must live in a different Massachusetts than the one I cycled in for 43
years. Because in the one I rode in it most certainly was illegal
(statewide) to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in a business, commercial, or
industrial district, or in a residential district if the rider was over 16.
IOW, adults on the sidewalk is always a no-no.

Thought it high time to end the speculation. Take note of #3. We'll
have to leave it to Kantspel to clarify whether this was or was not
"outside business districts."

If it was *in* a business district, then the cyclist was violating the
law (fault). If it was *not in* a business district, then it's likely
the driver was at fault for failure to yield to the bicyclist.

"Chapter 85, Section 11B.
Bicycles; operation and equipment; regulations; federal product safety
standards, effect; races; violations; penalties
Every person operating a bicycle upon a way, as defined in section one
of chapter ninety, shall have the right to use all public ways in the
Commonwealth except limited access or express state highways where
signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted, and shall be
subject to the traffic laws and regulations of the Commonwealth and
the special regulations contained in the section, except that: (1) the
bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle
which is moving in the travel lane of the way, (2) the bicycle
operator shall signal by either hand his intention to stop or turn,
and (3) bicycles may be ridden on sidewalks outside business districts
when necessary in the interest of safety, unless otherwise directed by
local ordinance. A person operating a bicycle on the sidewalk shall
yield the right of way to pedestrians and give an audible signal
before overtaking and passing any pedestrian."

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm
http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/mass.htm#C85S11B
http://www.danverspolice.com/cps26.htm

Neil Brooks said:

AustinMN said:

Peter Cole wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this are
a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain districts.
I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on the
sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths) are
contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

You must live in a different Massachusetts than the one I cycled in for 43
years. Because in the one I rode in it most certainly was illegal
(statewide) to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in a business, commercial, or
industrial district, or in a residential district if the rider was over 16.
IOW, adults on the sidewalk is always a no-no.

Thought it high time to end the speculation. Take note of #3. We'll
have to leave it to Kantspel to clarify whether this was or was not
"outside business districts."

If it was *in* a business district, then the cyclist was violating the
law (fault). If it was *not in* a business district, then it's likely
the driver was at fault for failure to yield to the bicyclist.

"Chapter 85, Section 11B.
Bicycles; operation and equipment; regulations; federal product safety
standards, effect; races; violations; penalties
Every person operating a bicycle upon a way, as defined in section one
of chapter ninety, shall have the right to use all public ways in the
Commonwealth except limited access or express state highways where
signs specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted, and shall be
subject to the traffic laws and regulations of the Commonwealth and
the special regulations contained in the section, except that: (1) the
bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle
which is moving in the travel lane of the way, (2) the bicycle
operator shall signal by either hand his intention to stop or turn,
and (3) bicycles may be ridden on sidewalks outside business districts
when necessary in the interest of safety, unless otherwise directed by
local ordinance. A person operating a bicycle on the sidewalk shall
yield the right of way to pedestrians and give an audible signal
before overtaking and passing any pedestrian."

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/85-11b.htm
http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/mass.htm#C85S11B
http://www.danverspolice.com/cps26.htm

Found the OP. Quoting:

"Around noon, heading out to get a bite to eat, a old buddy had just
called so against my normal behaviour I'm chatting on the phone while
driving, I was turning right out of our business park on to the main
drag. "

Sounds like the bicyclist was illegally on the sidewalk. IIWWTT (if I
were writing the tickets), I'd give this one to the cyclist.

Bill Sornson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

The Wogster wrote:

> A bicycle is considered a vehicle in many jurisdictions, so it's
> like driving your car on the sidewalk....

And that's a bad thing /because/...???

Pedestrians wear sharp objects like rings or belt buckles that can
scratch your paint.

That's why you never just sideswipe 'em. They can't scratch much from
/underneath/ the vehicle.

Bill "alignment always off for some reason" S.

What I hate is the smell of flesh that gets seared onto the catalytic
converter. Eeeeewwwwww.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Neil Brooks said:

Found the OP. Quoting:

"Around noon, heading out to get a bite to eat, a old buddy had just
called so against my normal behaviour I'm chatting on the phone while
driving, I was turning right out of our business park on to the main
drag. "

Sounds like the bicyclist was illegally on the sidewalk. IIWWTT (if I
were writing the tickets), I'd give this one to the cyclist.

Depends on whether "business district" = "retail business" I suppose
(or whether that business park had retail establishments).

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

AustinMN said:

Peter Cole wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Around here (MA) bicycles are considered vehicles, but there are no
restrictions for riding on the sidewalk. The only exception to this

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a few urban areas that have their own ordinances in certain

districts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've never heard of any law prohibiting riding "against traffic" on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sidewalk. In fact, many of the "cycling sidewalks" (AKA bike paths)

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

contra-traffic (ditto for some lanes).

I wonder if this law was the OP's invention....

You must live in a different Massachusetts than the one I cycled in

for 43

Quoted message said:

years. Because in the one I rode in it most certainly was illegal
(statewide) to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk in a business,

commercial, or

Quoted message said:

industrial district, or in a residential district if the rider was

over 16.

Quoted message said:

IOW, adults on the sidewalk is always a no-no.

I think you're mis-remembering, the entire text of the relevant law:

" bicycles may be ridden on sidewalks outside business districts when
necessary in the interest of safety, unless otherwise directed by local
ordinance. A person operating a bicycle on the sidewalk shall yield the
right of way to pedestrians and give an audible signal before
overtaking and passing any pedestrian."

I don't know what the legality of sidewalk riding is in the OP's state,
neither apparently does he. Didn't stop him from telling the cyclist
they broke the law, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

He didn't know that it is illegal to ride
on the sidewalk and doubly so to go against traffic, he'll probably
remember that.

Where is it that has that law?

Just an example:
In Poland the law states that you are not allowed to ride on the
sidewalk (therefore you must ride on the road alongside with cars) unless
1) there is no road
or
2) the speed limit is over 60kph.

I won't comment on that...

--
______________________________________________________
-=[ ChieftainY2k ]=-

Illinois bicycle law is based on an old standard, but here is
Illinois's text:

(625 ILCS 5/11-1512) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11-1512)
Sec. 11-1512. Bicycles on sidewalks. (a) A person propelling a
bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or across a roadway upon and along a
crosswalk, shall yield the right of way to any pedestrian and shall
give audible signal before overtaking and passing such pedestrian.
(b) A person shall not ride a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or
across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, where such use of bicycles
is prohibited by official traffic-control devices.
(c) A person propelling a bicycle upon and along a sidewalk, or
across a roadway upon and along a crosswalk, shall have all the rights
and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.
(Source: P.A. 82-132.)

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=062500050HCh%2E+11+Art%2E+XV&ActID=1815&ChapAct=625%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=49&ChapterName=VEHICLES&SectionID=59725&SeqStart=143900&SeqEnd=146490&ActName=Illinois+Vehicle+Code%2E