Re: red meat and longevity??

RBR said:

Actually, in a centenarian study where approximately 1,300
centenarians were studied, they found all types of diets were
followed. Only four of the centenarians were vegetarians.

Newsflash: Diet, and therefore nutrition, is not very important when
it comes to longevity.

Jack LaLanne said this some 50 years ago, without the benefit of any
research study. Exercise is King. Nutrition is Queen. And, together
they make a Kingdom.

Just thought that the 'One Knee Wonder' might want to know.

WHO HAS THE SHORTEST LIFE EXPECTANCY IN THE WORLD?
The Inuit of Alaska, Greenland, Iceland have the shortest life
expectancies in the world and have had for over 150 years. It is rare
for an Inuit male eating only animal protein and fat to live over the
late 50's. Conversely the longest life expectancies are in the
centenarian vegetarian tribes
(Villcabamba of Ecuador, Hunzas of Tibet, Azerbaijans of the Caucusus,
monasteries in India). (Source: National Geographic Jan 73)
http://www.veganmd.org

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

Quoted message said:

WHO HAS THE SHORTEST LIFE EXPECTANCY IN THE WORLD?
The Inuit of Alaska, Greenland, Iceland have the shortest life
expectancies in the world and have had for over 150 years.

There are mo Inuit in Iceland and there never were.

RBR said:

Jerry Story said:

Here you can download 6 free mp3s. Dr. Wallach is a fast smooth speaker
with lots of information. Or is it mis-information?
http://www.american-longevity.net/freetape.htm
He says that veg*nism doesn't work.
He says that a study showed that all the very old people ate red meat
at least twice a day.

What's with the red meat?

Actually, in a centenarian study where approximately 1,300
centenarians were studied, they found all types of diets were
followed. Only four of the centenarians were vegetarians.

Also, below is an excerpt from an article I found at the BBC site on
the subject of the benefits of less meat in our diet:

"But completely avoiding meat was not the healthiest diet, the
researchers found.

For every 100 deaths among vegans, there were 66 among vegetarians and
60 among occasional meat eaters."

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2838083.stm

Vegetarianism is not conducive to longevity despite what the
vegetarian animal rights activists tell you. A healthy omnivorous diet
is much more conducive to a long and healthy life however.

RBR

Wow.

This is good stuff!!!!! Thanks. Now I have some real numbers that are
simple to understand when I have this talk with people over and over
again through the years.

Just don't share this information with women you are trying to get in
bed because telling them the truth about the world will always turn
them off. Instead, ask them about their experiences with ghosts and
tell them you are not so sure if they exist or not but this one time
....

William

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RBR said:

Jerry Story said:

Here you can download 6 free mp3s. Dr. Wallach is a fast smooth speaker
with lots of information. Or is it mis-information?
http://www.american-longevity.net/freetape.htm
He says that veg*nism doesn't work.
He says that a study showed that all the very old people ate red meat
at least twice a day.

What's with the red meat?

Actually, in a centenarian study where approximately 1,300
centenarians were studied, they found all types of diets were
followed. Only four of the centenarians were vegetarians.

Also, below is an excerpt from an article I found at the BBC site on
the subject of the benefits of less meat in our diet:

"But completely avoiding meat was not the healthiest diet, the
researchers found.

For every 100 deaths among vegans, there were 66 among vegetarians and
60 among occasional meat eaters."

Link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2838083.stm

Vegetarianism is not conducive to longevity despite what the
vegetarian animal rights activists tell you. A healthy omnivorous diet
is much more conducive to a long and healthy life however.

RBR

Wow.

With regard to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2838083.stm
read the whole thing, William, especially the first part. Note
the headline: Less meat 'means a longer life' Try a little wine
and sweet talk for your next seduction.

Less meat 'means a longer life'
Eating little or no meat can help people live longer, researchers have
found.
Their lives are "significantly longer" than the general population,
researchers have found, according to German scientists.

It has been suggested that eating a balanced vegetarian diet could reduce
the risk of developing certain cancers and heart disease, cut cholesterol
levels and the chances of suffering from kidney and gall stones,
diet-related diabetes and high blood pressure.

A team from the Centre of Cancer Research in Germany monitored almost 2,000
people aged between 10 and 70, who ate either no meat, or less than average
between 1978 and 1999.

Essentially, the key issue here is having a properly balanced diet
Dr Jenny Chang-Claude, Centre of Cancer Research

Those studied were either vegans, who eat no meat, fish, eggs or dairy
products, vegetarians, who eat eggs and dairy products, but no meat or fish,
and occasional meat eaters.
Across the group, there was an average of 59 deaths for every 100 deaths in
that age range in the general population during that period.

Exercise

But completely avoiding meat was not the healthiest diet, the researchers
found.

For every 100 deaths among vegans, there were 66 among vegetarians and 60
among occasional meat eaters.

Amongst smokers, the mortality rate was 70% higher than non-smokers, while
those who took the most exercise reduced their mortality rates by more than
30%.

Moderate alcohol made no discernible difference to lifespan, the researchers
concluded.

Dr Jenny Chang-Claude, of the Centre of Cancer Research, said: "Essentially,
the key issue here is having a properly balanced diet."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/2838083.stm

Published: 2003/03/10 18:42:02 GMT

© BBC MMV

George Cherry said:

M1TE&.#EAHP`B`+,``/___RHJ*@```(Z.CA04%&UM;41$1,C(R.SL[*6EI;N[
MN]W=W?/S\PH*"OCX^/S\_"'Y! ``````+ ````"C`"(```3_$,A)J[TXZ\V[
M_V HCF1IGFBJKFSKOG LSW1MWS.A[WSOZX&#)/$K&A.20\#(Y UP4(!@2JU:
MK].&8HCM>I^ @W=L+41QY#1!"$BDT^ #X3TVGVW61L# YP?&:UQ6>WT&?V-Q

I would add:
M<UT$A(8-6'85"PH+&PH*"!,'EYR=`)-;&😉-L%YND``H#JID7@PL.#+$,"PD%
MBVQN50T)L+*3MEV)6 8)!PP3"*D&91<#`@25&5.A`,M=85-(%X?1%0AS8 F'
M5)$4@ZP5#LY7@6UYVA4/`X]7PE4$`^@/#Q0(XP+E)JP+@,["M G6L$CX$S )

And, do not forget that:
M%3 5UF520(6/HE95`E1:4*!C@F,(_Q)2:9>+RBX`#CH6R"<!F!5[4PB$2E;
MD($"F #\:PA@G8 `T@106V8@@T0++H%:8"AAF4:!!#!2>2KG(3^?(W&]`X"@
MB@%^"NA5@7DRC,BIXJKPQ,I3BE"$`HIB^"8`H@2ZP. Y?.M6;QBI4Z@JBGL,

Montygram wrote:
M:TRMNI PR)CI@-B'2087<!!F<😉JU<8'Q/-@TK@9;2@5.">F9`N@)4^P&G5JI
MZI0"^UQF%6022=>*E VGCDS%]EDRF(M:4^UV:&D,8O@N!-AS2C<`X."VT^#J
MD\T"F1(\/DP[B^(^!5K_@UPY<&LZY)IY]I>M`N=JQS$PW1LJNH2C>^L6-)@Q

But he don't know what he is talking about because obviously:

M6BQ^GXS'G?\[B4D@RUV_[59>7/R41$=P=\TQ77'2%<😉'.?B=UM)/< 6D@"(!
M^&5.?Q+L\P!ER?Q&TE8`F$B9`PH4L%U=O)6F&W#JR54>`>B\EV!\=#T1I";M
M+?#>! LDU%9U"*BT4B6DW8-8;[email hidden] E#,BFH&L&4$81>LQ9X(R.!!(D@8\_

Just my opinion, but try to prove me wrong. :

Mr-Natural-Health said:

RBR said:

Actually, in a centenarian study where approximately 1,300
centenarians were studied, they found all types of diets were
followed. Only four of the centenarians were vegetarians.

Newsflash: Diet, and therefore nutrition, is not very important when
it comes to longevity.

Jack LaLanne said this some 50 years ago, without the benefit of any
research study. Exercise is King. Nutrition is Queen. And, together
they make a Kingdom.

Just thought that the 'One Knee Wonder' might want to know.

Damnit. Something is wrong. I have to agree with you.... 🙂

Mirek

This study is not taking into consideration the percentage of
vegetarians and vegans in the population, which is only a minority. You
should expect them to be only a very small part of centarians. Also 100
years ago vegetarians were really oddballs whereas they have become
much more common in the past 20 years.

Angie

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Did he preach vegeterianism , if so why the christains
are basically meat lovers ?

Kam

--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG

Only 4? That is 40%, and vegetarians don't make up anywhere near 40%
of the population. But it's a good point, namely, that avoiding
oxidative stress is the key, so you can eat meat, espeically if you
boil it, don't eat too much of it, and eat it with antioxidants (such
as herbs and spices).

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only 4? That is 40%, and vegetarians don't make up anywhere near 40%
of the population. But it's a good point, namely, that avoiding
oxidative stress is the key, so you can eat meat, espeically if you
boil it,

Boil it? Now that's a nice back door approach to get people to give up
meat. Yes Ms. Waittress I'll take the 12 Oz. NY cut and boil it for a
hour. Spock, beam him up!

-DF

Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:08:08 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

7 Sep 2005 19:48:12 -0700 in article
<[email hidden]>

Quoted post said:

WHO HAS THE SHORTEST LIFE EXPECTANCY IN THE WORLD?
The Inuit of Alaska, Greenland, Iceland have the shortest life
expectancies in the world and have had for over 150 years.

Please provide some references to support this claim. You must have some
statistics about the life expectancy of inuit to make such a claim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is rare
for an Inuit male eating only animal protein and fat to live over the
late 50's. Conversely the longest life expectancies are in the
centenarian vegetarian tribes
(Villcabamba of Ecuador, Hunzas of Tibet, Azerbaijans of the Caucusus,
monasteries in India). (Source: National Geographic Jan 73)
http://www.veganmd.org

There are no inuit in Iceland. Traditional inuit's leading causes of death
were accidents and infectious diseases. Their life was full of dangers and
medical care was poor. But they had less chronic degenerative diseases such
as coronary heart disease, cancer and diabetes than any other tribe or
country.

According to the page

Leading Cause of Death for Inuit (Percentage) 1988-1993
<http://www.itk.ca/health/cancer-registry-graph01.php>

the most common cause of death for inuit in 1988-1993 was accidents (28%).
In earlier times, when life was even more dangerous, the percentage could
have been even higher.

Information about the health of inuit can be found for example from the
following web pages and references:

ScienCentral: Native Diet
sciencentral.comview.php3Open ↗

"... Scientists studying the Inuit in the 1970s found that
as a group, they suffered much less than their European
counterparts from certain diseases, such as coronary heart
disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and diabetes mellitus. Yet
their diet was very high in fat from eating foods like
whale, seal, and salmon. Discover Magazine called this the
"Inuit Paradox."

The solution to the paradox may lie in the fact that not
all fat is created equal. "[The Inuit] ate a lot of marine
animals, like walruses and seals, whales and so forth, and
the blubber of these animals is a very high source of
monounsaturated fat,"says Cordain. "So if you contrast the
Inuit diet to the Western diet, it actually turns out to
be lower in saturated fat— very high in fat, but high in
healthful fat, monounsaturates and polyunsaturates, high
in a specific type of polyunsaturates called omega-3 fatty
acids that come from the marine food chain."

Cordain says that while the Inuit diet is not optimal,
there are a few things we can learn from it. "Let's take
the good of the Inuit, the lean protein, the good
fats…minimize refined cereal, the refined sugars, and
increase the fruit and vegetables in our diet," he says,
adding that the single most important thing we can do in
our diets is increase the omega-3 fatty acids, which are
found in many oily fish. ..."

The Inuit Paradox
How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a vegetable be healthier than
we are?
By Patricia Gadsby
Photography by Leon Steele
DISCOVER Vol. 25 No. 10 | October 2004 | Biology & Medicine
<http://www.discover.com/issues/oct-04/features/inuit-paradox/>

Orsoq
Eat Meat and Blubber from Sea Mammals and avoid Cardiovascular disease.
<http://www.highnorth.no/Library/Culture/or-ea-me.htm>

O'Keefe JH Jr, Harris WS.
From Inuit to implementation: omega-3 fatty acids come of age.
Mayo Clin Proc. 2000 Jun;75(6):607-14. Review.
PMID: 10852422 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10852422>

"During the past 25 years, the cardiovascular effects of
marine omega-3 (omega-3) fatty acids have been the subject
of increasing investigation. In the late 1970s,
epidemiological studies revealed that Greenland Inuits had
substantially reduced rates of acute myocardial infarction
compared with Western control subjects. These observations
generated more than 4,500 studies to explore this and
other effects of omega-3 fatty acids on human metabolism
and health. From epidemiology to cell culture and animal
studies to randomized controlled trials, the
cardioprotective effects of omega-3 fatty acids are
becoming recognized. ..."

Bjerregaard P, Mulvad G, Pedersen HS.
Cardiovascular risk factors in Inuit of Greenland.
Int J Epidemiol. 1997 Dec;26(6):1182-90.
PMID: 9447397 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9447397>
<http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/26/6/1182>

"... CONCLUSIONS: In spite of an increased westernization of the
Greenlanders' lifestyle and a high prevalence of several cardiovascular
risk factors, mortality from IHD is still low. ..."

Henzen C.
[Fish oil--healing principle in the Eskimo diet?]
Schweiz Rundsch Med Prax. 1995 Jan 3;84(1):11-5. German.
PMID: 7839038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7839038>

"The low incidence of coronary heart disease among Eskimos
is related to their diet rich in marine fatty acids, which
contain large amounts of polyunsaturated omega-3 fatty
acids, mainly eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids.
The beneficial effects on atherosclerotic vascular disease
result from favorable influence on
prostaglandin/thromboxane metabolism. Clinical studies
have also reported antiinflammatory effects."

Feskens EJ, Kromhout D.
Epidemiologic studies on Eskimos and fish intake.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1993 Jun 14;683:9-15. Review.
PMID: 8352476 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8352476>

"Chronic diseases such as coronary heart disease and diabetes mellitus
are uncommon in Eskimos. ..."

Dyerberg J.
Coronary heart disease in Greenland Inuit: a paradox. Implications for
western diet patterns.
Arctic Med Res. 1989 Apr;48(2):47-54.
PMID: 2736000 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2736000>

"Epidemiologic examinations of Greenland Inuit have
disclosed a connection between high seafood intake
containing a high level of n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids
(PUFAs) and a low coronary heart disease (CHD) morbidity.
Other epidemiologic studies have confirmed this
interrelation, and a biological substrate for a causal
relationship has been established. This includes a lipid
lowering effect of n-3 PUFAs and a modulatory effect on
eicosanoid metabolism, shifting platelet vessel wall
balance in an antithrombotic direction. Other metabolic
effects of n-3 PUFAs are an altered inflammatory response
to proinflammatory stimuli and a modest hypotensive
effect. These findings create a basis for controlled
clinical studies and justify, in the author's opinion,
both a mass strategy of advocating that a well-balanced
diet should include a higher use of seafood in Western
diets, and a more intensive recommendation of n-3 PUFAs in
certain high-risk patients with a heterogeneous risk-
factor profile. Among these, patients with essential
hypertension and patients undergoing reconstructive
coronary intervention are obvious candidates. A major
outcome of the research, stemming from the epidemiological
studies, is establishment of the fact that separate
attention should be paid to both the n-6 and the n-3 fatty
acids."

--
Matti Narkia

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:45:44 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only 4? That is 40%, and vegetarians don't make up anywhere near 40%
of the population. But it's a good point, namely, that avoiding
oxidative stress is the key, so you can eat meat, espeically if you
boil it,

Boil it? Now that's a nice back door approach to get people to give up
meat. Yes Ms. Waittress I'll take the 12 Oz. NY cut and boil it for a
hour. Spock, beam him up!

-DF

I love fondue steak. Just boil it in some peanut oil, can't beat the
taste.

jt said:

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:45:44 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Only 4? That is 40%, and vegetarians don't make up anywhere near 40%
of the population. But it's a good point, namely, that avoiding
oxidative stress is the key, so you can eat meat, espeically if you
boil it,

Boil it? Now that's a nice back door approach to get people to give up
meat. Yes Ms. Waittress I'll take the 12 Oz. NY cut and boil it for a
hour. Spock, beam him up!

-DF

I love fondue steak. Just boil it in some peanut oil, can't beat the
taste.

and it cooks in 1-2 minutes not an hour.

Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:05:30 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

Sat, 10 Sep 2005 16:08:08 +0300 in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

7 Sep 2005 19:48:12 -0700 in article
<[email hidden]>

Quoted post said:

WHO HAS THE SHORTEST LIFE EXPECTANCY IN THE WORLD?
The Inuit of Alaska, Greenland, Iceland have the shortest life
expectancies in the world and have had for over 150 years.

Please provide some references to support this claim. You must have some
statistics about the life expectancy of inuit to make such a claim.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It is rare
for an Inuit male eating only animal protein and fat to live over the
late 50's. Conversely the longest life expectancies are in the
centenarian vegetarian tribes
(Villcabamba of Ecuador, Hunzas of Tibet, Azerbaijans of the Caucusus,
monasteries in India). (Source: National Geographic Jan 73)
http://www.veganmd.org

There are no inuit in Iceland. Traditional inuit's leading causes of death
were accidents and infectious diseases. Their life was full of dangers and
medical care was poor. But they had less chronic degenerative diseases such
as coronary heart disease, cancer and diabetes than any other tribe or
country.

According to the page

Leading Cause of Death for Inuit (Percentage) 1988-1993
<http://www.itk.ca/health/cancer-registry-graph01.php>

the most common cause of death for inuit in 1988-1993 was accidents (28%).
In earlier times, when life was even more dangerous, the percentage could
have been even higher.

The link

<http://www.prcdc.org/summaries/amindiansaknatives/amindiansaknatives.html>

provided by Dr. Harris tells, among other things, that U.S. overall
mortality due to accidents is only 4%. So inuit are 7 times more likely to
die in accident than an average American citizen.

--
Matti Narkia

"jt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love fondue steak. Just boil it in some peanut oil, can't beat the
taste.

and it cooks in 1-2 minutes not an hour.

Hmm, boil in oil. Other than a few degrees difference in temp, what is
the difference between deep frying or boiling in oil. My narrow
definition of "boiling", especially with food, is with water, which
sounds from a flavor aspect, gross. Is there some real or imagined
health difference/benefit between boiling vs frying in oil?

-DF

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 16:37:21 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"jt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I love fondue steak. Just boil it in some peanut oil, can't beat the
taste.

and it cooks in 1-2 minutes not an hour.

Hmm, boil in oil. Other than a few degrees difference in temp, what is
the difference between deep frying or boiling in oil. My narrow
definition of "boiling", especially with food, is with water, which
sounds from a flavor aspect, gross. Is there some real or imagined
health difference/benefit between boiling vs frying in oil?

-DF

Well fondue sounds more sophisticated I suppose and the food is done
with a fork not just thorwing a whole turkey or whatever in the pot.
frying means to cook food (non-submerged) in hot fat or oil over
moderate to high heat, very similar to sauteing. Fodue is submerged
so is deep frying.

I am hoping when he was referring to boiling a steak he did not mean
water.

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On 7 Sep 2005 15:36:38 -0700, "Mr-Natural-Health"
<[email hidden]> babbled on:

Quoted message said:

RBR said:

Actually, in a centenarian study where approximately 1,300
centenarians were studied, they found all types of diets were
followed. Only four of the centenarians were vegetarians.

Newsflash: Diet, and therefore nutrition, is not very important when
it comes to longevity.

Perhaps if you would concentrate ... :o(

Vegetarians and vegans in particular make rash claims that their diet
is conducive to longevity. That has yet to proven. Vegetarian
religionists sometimes need to slapped upside the head to bring them
back to reality. You, on the other hand, need to be slapped upside the
head simply because you are you .... :o)

Quoted message said:

Jack LaLanne said this some 50 years ago, without the benefit of any
research study. Exercise is King. Nutrition is Queen. And, together
they make a Kingdom.

Jack is your hero? Does Jack know you're a major [censored]? I don't
think Jack would like to be associated with a major dumbass like you
Mr. "Health". It would not be good for business.

Just thought you would want to know, since you know I *am* right. :o)

Quoted message said:

Just thought that the 'One Knee Wonder' might want to know.

So sayeth the American Dental Association spokesman.

RBR