Re: Recovery Times

Blair P. Houghton said:

Steve Freides said:

"Jerry K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have recently started riding a road bike. I am following a regimen
of a "hard" week followed by a recover week. Hard week is currently 3
days of 15-20 miles and one day of around 25 miles. I use a HRM to
control my peed -- average 85-90% max. Easy weeks run 3 days of
10-15 miles at a more moderate 75-85% max.

Do you really need the HRM to tell you if you are at the right speed?
I usually can tell when I am just too wiped to go faster, which is
usually about 90%.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After a month and a half of this, my legs are constantly feeling
tired. Interestingly, they usually feel better after a ride then they
do the next morning. No pain, just tired. I am thinking about
inserting a second week of recover time.

It's not your workout. It's your diet.

Are you eating a fairly large amount of carbs and protein after the
workout?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

QUESTIONS:

Is this retained lactic acid? If so, are there any diet things I can
do to speed up its elimination?

You can eliminate it by stretching and massaging after
a ride.

Or by just riding real slow around the neighborhood for a bit, letting
the movement of the legs at low stress work things out.

Quoted message said:

BTW, if it's hanging around it's not lactic acid; it's
lactate; lactic acid is intracellular, carefully regulated,
and very short-lived. It's a noodling technical point,
but that's what you get.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any training techniques? Will this
just get better as I continue to ride?

OTHER: Age 57. Just had a stress test and physical. Doctor said to
watch out for the cars.

Yep, at 57, 56 for me, cars are now more dangerous than heart attacks.
We have already outlived all the statistical 'normal' stuff.

Quoted message said:

Mine always says "you're as healthy as a horse." But I
don't know many 41-year-old horses who ride a bike, so I
think she's nuts. Cute, but nuts.

Quoted message said:

I suggest you ask on one of the rec.bicycles newsgroups, e.g.,
news:rec.bicycles.tech. But while you're here, I'll attempt an answer:

xposted to rec.bicycles.misc; the people on r.b.t will just
tell you to adjust your Q-factor and weld your sprocket...

Quoted message said:

Most people do best taking a cyclic approach to training. That means
not just one week hard followed by one week easy but instead a varying
but generally increasing effort over the course of a few weeks up to a
few months. When the cycle is over, you back way off for a few days or
even longer, then you start a new cycle.

If I were you, I'd start over, riding just however far, hard, and often
as feels comfortable rather than following a planned training routine -
let yourself get used to riding the bike. Once you feel you've
established some sort of baseline for yourself, try planning to
gradually increase for 3 weeks of each month then taking 4th week at
about half effort of the previous week. You will do best, in the long
run, if you avoid any feeling of burnout but try to find a program you
can do comfortably for a while - push yourself only after you've gotten
a solid foundation.

Technique matters, too. Most good cyclists are able to spin a fairly
high cadence comfortably, say 90-100 rpm. If that doesn't describe you,

Most "good" cyclists can spin 120-130 for a mile or two,
which really burns my shorts.

Quoted message said:

work on that aspect of your cycling by using a slightly lower gear.
Make sure you're comfortable on your bike as well. All other things
being equal, I see more people with their saddle too low than too high -
maybe raise your saddle 1/8-1/4" and see how it feels, or have someone
from a good bike shop give you their opinion on how your bike fits you.

Get a shop to help fit you. There are more variables than
you think, and your goals and riding style affect them.

What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle up far
enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes as I ride
for best efficiency. When I come to a complete stop I either have to get
off the saddle or stop next to a curb, or pull an Arte Johnson laugh in
move.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As to diet, consider a post-ride drink like Endurox R4 that contains
some protein, or at least read their web site to be up on the latest in
recovery nutrition, which basically means 1 part protein for 4 parts
carb. Adding protein post-ride made a big difference for me.

I exercise first thing in the morning, and breakfast is
about 45% carbs, 45% protein, and 10% fat, (and my daily
diet is targeted to be 45/40/15) and I'm pretty impressed
with how little soreness I ever feel.

Except today, but I think I woke up with the flu.

Quoted message said:

Hope that's of some help to you.

Dittoids.

Quoted message said:

http://www.kbnj.com

Man, that looks like some silly-assed fun.

--Blair
"And I was wondering when the headband
was going to come back in."

I hope you work it out.

--
Bill (?) Baka

Bill Baka said:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle up far
enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes as I ride
for best efficiency.

I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your saddle.
And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm pretty sure
that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Rich

Rich wrote:
|| Bill Baka wrote:
||
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle
||| up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes
||| as I ride for best efficiency.
||
|| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
|| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
|| pretty sure
|| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
|| doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

Roger Zoul said:

Rich wrote:
|| Bill Baka wrote:
||
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle
||| up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes
||| as I ride for best efficiency.
||
|| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
|| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
|| pretty sure
|| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
|| doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

A sick one? Maybe just a clueless idiot. If you want a good laugh,
read his reply in support of the troll milkywhy. Little bill won't
wear lycra, but he is considering a set of hefty bags.
What a maroon;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

Rich said:

Bill Baka said:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle up
far
enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes as I ride
for best efficiency.

I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your saddle.
And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm pretty sure
that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Rich

Go ask Lance. For me it involves using all the leg muscles, no more, no
less.

--
Bill (?) Baka

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:12:07 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Rich wrote:
|| Bill Baka wrote:
||
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle
||| up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes
||| as I ride for best efficiency.
||
|| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
|| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
|| pretty sure
|| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
|| doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position what
is it?

--
Bill (?) Baka

Bill Baka wrote:
|| On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:12:07 -0500, Roger Zoul
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Rich wrote:
||||| Bill Baka wrote:
|||||
|||||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]>
|||||| wrote:
|||||
|||||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the
|||||| saddle up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and
|||||| extend my toes as I ride for best efficiency.
|||||
||||| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
||||| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
||||| pretty sure
||||| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not.
||||| And I doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.
|||
||| Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort
||| of mind does it take to conjure such a statement?
|||
|||
|| If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
|| ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
|| at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
|| bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position
|| what
|| is it?

Hmmm....Bill - the issue isn't really about saddle height - we all know that
is important. Your statement referred to the "police" having a problem with
you putting your saddle up so high that you have to extend your toes. The
first issue is whys would the police care and second (in my mind) would be
this extending your toes business. As your knee needs to be slightly bent
at the bottom of the stroke, I don't think your toes really need to be
extended to use all of your leg muscles. And if you're wearing cleated
shoes, I don't think they can be as the cleats are typically not under the
toes, but more under the ball of the foot, typically.

I think the latter statement would not have raised much of a comment alone,
but the two together just rouse people up. That's all.

Jeff Starr said:

Roger Zoul said:

Rich wrote:
|| Bill Baka wrote:
||
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the saddle
||| up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and extend my toes
||| as I ride for best efficiency.
||
|| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
|| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
|| pretty sure
|| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not. And I
|| doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of
mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

A sick one? Maybe just a clueless idiot. If you want a good laugh,
read his reply in support of the troll milkywhy. Little bill won't
wear lycra, but he is considering a set of hefty bags.
What a maroon;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

Metal side racks in the rear, old delivery bike style. Aero when empty
usefull when needed. I did a semi-century with them a few years back
and they were very handy for a ride way out in the country. It was about
70 miles so maybe it counts as a metric century. I was carrying camera
equipment plus food and water. What works for me is probably not what
works for you, since a bike is pretty much a personal thing.

--
Bill (?) Baka

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:48:18 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka wrote:
|| On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:12:07 -0500, Roger Zoul
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Rich wrote:
||||| Bill Baka wrote:
|||||
|||||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]>
|||||| wrote:
|||||
|||||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the
|||||| saddle up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and
|||||| extend my toes as I ride for best efficiency.
|||||
||||| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up your
||||| saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or stretching, I'm
||||| pretty sure
||||| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not.
||||| And I doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.
|||
||| Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort
||| of mind does it take to conjure such a statement?
|||
|||
|| If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
|| ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
|| at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
|| bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position
|| what
|| is it?

Hmmm....Bill - the issue isn't really about saddle height - we all know
that
is important. Your statement referred to the "police" having a problem
with
you putting your saddle up so high that you have to extend your toes.
The
first issue is whys would the police care and second (in my mind) would
be
this extending your toes business.

One of the kids I ride with sometimes was told that by the police so it
is second hand information. She was mainly hassled over not having a
helmet.

As your knee needs to be slightly

Quoted message said:

bent
at the bottom of the stroke, I don't think your toes really need to be
extended to use all of your leg muscles. And if you're wearing cleated
shoes, I don't think they can be as the cleats are typically not under
the
toes, but more under the ball of the foot, typically.

I think the latter statement would not have raised much of a comment
alone,
but the two together just rouse people up. That's all.

I am really not trying to rouse up the group, but it is the way that
works for me, and at 56 anything done wrong would start hurting. Mainly
I see big kids sitting so low it is absurd. I have adjusted seats for
the local kids but not to where they can't stop flat footed. I try to
make it as safe as possible for the kids, and they do get reasonable
leg extension compared to having the seat all the way down.
What I say on this group is how I ride, not how I teach the kids to ride,
or to do some of the things that I do.

--
Bill (?) Baka

Bill Baka wrote:
|| On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:48:18 -0500, Roger Zoul
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Bill Baka wrote:
||||| On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:12:07 -0500, Roger Zoul
||||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||||
|||||| Rich wrote:
|||||||| Bill Baka wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]>
||||||||| wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the
||||||||| saddle up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and
||||||||| extend my toes as I ride for best efficiency.
||||||||
|||||||| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up
|||||||| your saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or
|||||||| stretching, I'm pretty sure
|||||||| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not.
|||||||| And I doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.
||||||
|||||| Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort
|||||| of mind does it take to conjure such a statement?
||||||
||||||
||||| If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on
||||| the ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme
||||| end look at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down
||||| riding a 24" bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good
||||| pedal position what
||||| is it?
|||
||| Hmmm....Bill - the issue isn't really about saddle height - we all
||| know that
||| is important. Your statement referred to the "police" having a
||| problem with
||| you putting your saddle up so high that you have to extend your
||| toes. The
||| first issue is whys would the police care and second (in my mind)
||| would be
||| this extending your toes business.
||
|| One of the kids I ride with sometimes was told that by the police so
|| it is second hand information. She was mainly hassled over not
|| having a helmet.

Interesting. If the police mentioned something about the saddle being too
high it was probably out of ignorance, unless it really was too high.

||
|| As your knee needs to be slightly
||| bent
||| at the bottom of the stroke, I don't think your toes really need to
||| be extended to use all of your leg muscles. And if you're wearing
||| cleated shoes, I don't think they can be as the cleats are
||| typically not under the
||| toes, but more under the ball of the foot, typically.
|||
||| I think the latter statement would not have raised much of a comment
||| alone,
||| but the two together just rouse people up. That's all.
|||
|||
|||
|| I am really not trying to rouse up the group, but it is the way that
|| works for me, and at 56 anything done wrong would start hurting.

Well, if it works for you I'm not going to argue with it. It's your body
and you know it better than I do.

|| Mainly
|| I see big kids sitting so low it is absurd. I have adjusted seats
|| for the local kids but not to where they can't stop flat footed. I
|| try to make it as safe as possible for the kids, and they do get
|| reasonable
|| leg extension compared to having the seat all the way down.

Yes, I too see kids riding with saddles that seem to low. In fact, I'd
venture to say I did too when I rode as a kid. However, I think the bike of
old were somehow designed so that the feet could touch the ground flat
footed. I'm not sure about that, but I recall reading of it somewhere.

|| What I say on this group is how I ride, not how I teach the kids to
|| ride, or to do some of the things that I do.

Okay. You ride and you enjoy it. You encourage kids too. Those are all good
things, imo.

Bill Baka said:

Quoted message said:

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position what
is it?

I have no idea why I would waste my time doing this, but here goes,
read this -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#height
Read both "Height" and "How High".

Then, it might do you good to read the whole section -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

Less posting, more reading;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 18:59:16 -0500, Roger Zoul <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka wrote:
|| On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:48:18 -0500, Roger Zoul
|| <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| Bill Baka wrote:
||||| On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:12:07 -0500, Roger Zoul
||||| <[email hidden]> wrote:
|||||
|||||| Rich wrote:
|||||||| Bill Baka wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:10:27 GMT, Blair P. Houghton <[email hidden]>
||||||||| wrote:
||||||||
||||||||| What works for me, but the police don't like is putting the
||||||||| saddle up far enough that I have to use my calf muscles and
||||||||| extend my toes as I ride for best efficiency.
||||||||
|||||||| I don't personally think the police care how far you put up
|||||||| your saddle. And, while I'm no expert on muscels or
|||||||| stretching, I'm pretty sure
|||||||| that since you suggest this is a good idea, it's probably not.
|||||||| And I doubt it's efficient. Given you're clueless.
||||||
|||||| Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort
|||||| of mind does it take to conjure such a statement?
||||||
||||||
||||| If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on
||||| the ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme
||||| end look at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down
||||| riding a 24" bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good
||||| pedal position what
||||| is it?
|||
||| Hmmm....Bill - the issue isn't really about saddle height - we all
||| know that
||| is important. Your statement referred to the "police" having a
||| problem with
||| you putting your saddle up so high that you have to extend your
||| toes. The
||| first issue is whys would the police care and second (in my mind)
||| would be
||| this extending your toes business.
||
|| One of the kids I ride with sometimes was told that by the police so
|| it is second hand information. She was mainly hassled over not
|| having a helmet.

Interesting. If the police mentioned something about the saddle being
too
high it was probably out of ignorance, unless it really was too high.

I am not going to pull a cop off the street to verify that but it
sounds like a reasonable rule for kids safety.

Quoted message said:

||
|| As your knee needs to be slightly
||| bent
||| at the bottom of the stroke, I don't think your toes really need to
||| be extended to use all of your leg muscles. And if you're wearing
||| cleated shoes, I don't think they can be as the cleats are
||| typically not under the
||| toes, but more under the ball of the foot, typically.
|||
||| I think the latter statement would not have raised much of a comment
||| alone,
||| but the two together just rouse people up. That's all.
|||
|||
|||
|| I am really not trying to rouse up the group, but it is the way that
|| works for me, and at 56 anything done wrong would start hurting.

Well, if it works for you I'm not going to argue with it. It's your body
and you know it better than I do.

|| Mainly
|| I see big kids sitting so low it is absurd. I have adjusted seats
|| for the local kids but not to where they can't stop flat footed. I
|| try to make it as safe as possible for the kids, and they do get
|| reasonable
|| leg extension compared to having the seat all the way down.

Yes, I too see kids riding with saddles that seem to low. In fact, I'd
venture to say I did too when I rode as a kid. However, I think the
bike of
old were somehow designed so that the feet could touch the ground flat
footed. I'm not sure about that, but I recall reading of it somewhere.

I mean the teen kids and even some older types trying to be cool and
not having a clue of how stupid they look. They are way to old and tall
to be riding a small childs bike but they seem to think that is the way
to ride.

Quoted message said:

|| What I say on this group is how I ride, not how I teach the kids to
|| ride, or to do some of the things that I do.

Okay. You ride and you enjoy it. You encourage kids too. Those are all
good
things, imo.

I do encourage the kids to ride properly or not at all. I have streched
the truth a bit on this group but some people are just too hard to
resist getting their knickers in a knot.
This does, unfortunately take time away from riding, but I just can't
resist. If I was fishing I would have caught my limit many times over.

--
Bill (?) Baka

Jeff Starr said:

Bill Baka said:

Quoted message said:

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of
mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position what
is it?

I have no idea why I would waste my time doing this, but here goes,
read this -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#height
Read both "Height" and "How High".

Then, it might do you good to read the whole section -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

Less posting, more reading;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

I went, I read, I agree with Sheldon. What [censored] you off this time?
The kids I am talking about are the 14-18 year old crowd, not the
ones that ride with me. I have to have the seat up to be comfortable
for any distance and need to tilt the bike at a stop. The kids seats
are all set so they can put thier feet firmly on the ground.

--
Bill (?) Baka

"Jeff Starr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bill Baka said:

Quoted message said:

Bill does make some interesting statements......I mean, what sort of
mind
does it take to conjure such a statement?

If I put the saddle down far enough to place both feet flatly on the
ground then it is too low for maximum effort. On the extreme end look
at some of the teenagers with the seats all the way down riding a 24"
bike. If there is a rule other than being in a good pedal position
what
is it?

I have no idea why I would waste my time doing this, but here goes,
read this -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html#height
Read both "Height" and "How High".

Then, it might do you good to read the whole section -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

Less posting, more reading;-)

Sheldon's site is great - I have learned tons from it as have many
others.

Sheldon says it about as well as it can be said. I would add only one
proviso - don't just ride a little after raising your saddle a
centimeter, ride for a few days or even a few weeks, until you're well
used to it, before you raise it again. What Sheldon hints at I'll come
right out and say - keep raising your saddle until it's too high, then
back it down a smidgen and leave it there.

It's also worth mentioning that many things matter to what's a
comfortable saddle height, e.g., it's quite common for one to lower
one's saddle at the start of the season and raise it a few times during
as fitness increases. One of the biggest determinants of saddle
height, in my experience, is hamstring flexibility. Because I've
increased my hamstring flexibility dramatically over the last few years,
primarily as a result of lifting weights (barbell deadlifting and
kettlebell swings are the main things that helped), my saddle on the
bike is a good inch higher than it was before.

All Hail Sheldon Brown!

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com