Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Agreed I want to see some negative testimonials.
I've looked for them but I have not succeeded in finding many.
Anth

Not a lot from the dead, no.

Peter Moran

How many people died from using alternative medicine, Peter???

Quite a few, but Anth and I have had an ongoing interchange about
"alternative" treatments of cancer. The ratio of good testimonials to bad
would be approximately one to ten zillion, if the voices of disappointed
sufferers from cancer and other lethal diseases could be heard. And each
of those will have used many, often literally dozens of the recommended
treatments.

I liked the ploy of someone who recently was being swamped with all the
"cures" that those with advanced cancer get offered these days. He offered
to pay double if the treatment worked. End of discussion.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 5:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Agreed I want to see some negative testimonials.
> I've looked for them but I have not succeeded in finding many.
> Anth

Not a lot from the dead, no.

Peter Moran

How many people died from using alternative medicine, Peter???

Quite a few,

Proof please.

Quoted message said:

but Anth and I have had an ongoing interchange about
"alternative" treatments of cancer. The ratio of good testimonials to bad
would be approximately one to ten zillion,

Are you making this up as you go along??

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/sept11HS_508939Alternati
veCancerTreatments020910.html

Many Cancer Patients Turn to Alternative Medicine
From HealthScoutNews

— TUESDAY, Sept. 10 (HealthScoutNews)-- More than 70 percent of adult cancer
patients in western Washington use alternative therapies, and almost all report
improvements in well-being as a result, a new study shows.

Related Webcasts
• The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 1
• The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 2
• Can Needles Heal?
• Acupuncture: Can Needles Heal?
• Homeopathy: Helping Your Body Heal Itself

The research, the first population-based study of its kind to look at
predictors, motivators and costs of different types of alternative medicine use
in adults with cancer, was conducted by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research
Center. The findings were published in yesterday's issue of The Journal of
Alternative and Complementary Medicine.

Researcher Ruth E. Patterson and her colleagues at Fred Hutchinson's Public
Health Sciences Division led the study, which was supported by grants from the
National Cancer Institute and funds from Fred Hutchinson.

"This is the first study to specifically inquire about patients' attitudes
regarding the effectiveness of alternative treatments," Patterson says.

Patients were considered users of alternative medicine if they received care
from an alternative provider within the past year or had used at least one
alternative supplement or therapy.

Depending on the type of therapy, 83 percent to 97 percent of patients surveyed
said they used alternative medicine for general health, and nearly all reported
that use of these therapies improved their well-being.

A smaller number of those surveyed, between 8 percent and 56 percent, turned to
alternative interventions to actually treat their cancer.

The most common form of alternative treatment was the use of dietary
supplements, which were taken by 65 percent of the patients, many of whom used
several such products simultaneously.

Cancer type also appeared to influence alternative therapy use: for example,
those with breast cancer were significantly more likely to see alternative
providers or take dietary supplements than were colon cancer patients

"Since most therapies were used to enhance overall health and well-being, it
seems unlikely that patients would substitute these therapies for conventional
medicine," Patterson says.

But, she adds, "doctors should be wary of discounting alternative medicine,
given that the majority of patients overwhelmingly feel it improves their
quality of life.

" The survey was based on telephone interviews with 356 adults who had been
diagnosed with breast, prostate or colon cancer between February 1997 and
December 1998. The group was divided equally among men and women, with equal
representation among the three types of cancer.

One limitation to the study, Patterson notes, is that use of alternative
medicine could be high in western Washington for a variety of reasons.

First, vitamin use is highest in the western United States compared to other
areas of the nation. Also, health insurers in Washington are required by state
law to provide coverage for licensed alternative providers.

"Regardless of incidence of alternative medicine use in Washington, other
studies also indicate that alternative medicine use is common in patients with
cancer," Patterson adds.

More information The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine
has more information.

Quoted message said:

if the voices of disappointed
sufferers from cancer and other lethal diseases could be heard.

And each

Quoted message said:

of those will have used many, often literally dozens of the recommended
treatments.

Quoted message said:

I liked the ploy of someone who recently was being swamped with all the
"cures" that those with advanced cancer get offered these days. He offered
to pay double if the treatment worked. End of discussion.

Peter Moran

That happens many times when people make things up and are asked to show the
proof.

Jan

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 5:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
>From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
>Date: 7/31/2003 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
>
>"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>> Agreed I want to see some negative testimonials.
>> I've looked for them but I have not succeeded in finding many.
>> Anth
>
>Not a lot from the dead, no.
>
>Peter Moran

How many people died from using alternative medicine, Peter???

Quite a few,

Proof please.

Many have been mentioned here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but Anth and I have had an ongoing interchange about
"alternative" treatments of cancer. The ratio of good testimonials to

bad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would be approximately one to ten zillion,

Are you making this up as you go along??

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/sept11HS_508939Alternati
veCancerTreatments020910.html

Many Cancer Patients Turn to Alternative Medicine
From HealthScoutNews

- TUESDAY, Sept. 10 (HealthScoutNews)-- More than 70 percent of adult

cancer

Quoted message said:

patients in western Washington use alternative therapies, and almost all

report

Quoted message said:

improvements in well-being as a result, a new study shows.

This telephone poll of a few of the still-living means nothing. Even
cancer patients can respond symptomatically to placebo, and people will
rarely admit that they have chosen to waste their money on a treatment.

Also if you read this piece carefully you will note that most patients did
not take the alternatives for curative reaons, which is clearly what I was
referring to.

Peter Moran

Quoted message said:

Related Webcasts
. The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 1
. The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 2
. Can Needles Heal?
. Acupuncture: Can Needles Heal?
. Homeopathy: Helping Your Body Heal Itself

The research, the first population-based study of its kind to look at
predictors, motivators and costs of different types of alternative

medicine use

Quoted message said:

in adults with cancer, was conducted by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer

Research

Quoted message said:

Center. The findings were published in yesterday's issue of The Journal of
Alternative and Complementary Medicine.

Researcher Ruth E. Patterson and her colleagues at Fred Hutchinson's

Public

Quoted message said:

Health Sciences Division led the study, which was supported by grants from

the

Quoted message said:

National Cancer Institute and funds from Fred Hutchinson.

"This is the first study to specifically inquire about patients' attitudes
regarding the effectiveness of alternative treatments," Patterson says.

Patients were considered users of alternative medicine if they received

care

Quoted message said:

from an alternative provider within the past year or had used at least one
alternative supplement or therapy.

Depending on the type of therapy, 83 percent to 97 percent of patients

surveyed

Quoted message said:

said they used alternative medicine for general health, and nearly all

reported

Quoted message said:

that use of these therapies improved their well-being.

A smaller number of those surveyed, between 8 percent and 56 percent,

turned to

Quoted message said:

alternative interventions to actually treat their cancer.

The most common form of alternative treatment was the use of dietary
supplements, which were taken by 65 percent of the patients, many of whom

used

Quoted message said:

several such products simultaneously.

Cancer type also appeared to influence alternative therapy use: for

example,

Quoted message said:

those with breast cancer were significantly more likely to see alternative
providers or take dietary supplements than were colon cancer patients

"Since most therapies were used to enhance overall health and well-being,

it

Quoted message said:

seems unlikely that patients would substitute these therapies for

conventional

Quoted message said:

medicine," Patterson says.

But, she adds, "doctors should be wary of discounting alternative

medicine,

Quoted message said:

given that the majority of patients overwhelmingly feel it improves their
quality of life.

" The survey was based on telephone interviews with 356 adults who had

been

Quoted message said:

diagnosed with breast, prostate or colon cancer between February 1997 and
December 1998. The group was divided equally among men and women, with

equal

Quoted message said:

representation among the three types of cancer.

One limitation to the study, Patterson notes, is that use of alternative
medicine could be high in western Washington for a variety of reasons.

First, vitamin use is highest in the western United States compared to

other

Quoted message said:

areas of the nation. Also, health insurers in Washington are required by

state

Quoted message said:

law to provide coverage for licensed alternative providers.

"Regardless of incidence of alternative medicine use in Washington, other
studies also indicate that alternative medicine use is common in patients

with

Quoted message said:

cancer," Patterson adds.

More information The National Center for Complementary and Alternative

Medicine

Quoted message said:

has more information.

Quoted message said:

if the voices of disappointed
sufferers from cancer and other lethal diseases could be heard.

And each

Quoted message said:

of those will have used many, often literally dozens of the recommended
treatments.

Quoted message said:

I liked the ploy of someone who recently was being swamped with all the
"cures" that those with advanced cancer get offered these days. He

offered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to pay double if the treatment worked. End of discussion.

Peter Moran

That happens many times when people make things up and are asked to show

the

Quoted message said:

proof.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 8:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 5:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> >Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
> >From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
> >Date: 7/31/2003 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <[email hidden]>
> >
> >
> >"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >news:[email hidden]...
> >> Agreed I want to see some negative testimonials.
> >> I've looked for them but I have not succeeded in finding many.
> >> Anth
> >
> >Not a lot from the dead, no.
> >
> >Peter Moran
>
> How many people died from using alternative medicine, Peter???

Quite a few,

Proof please.

Many have been mentioned here.

Sad excuse for proof.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but Anth and I have had an ongoing interchange about

Quoted message said:

"alternative" treatments of cancer. The ratio of good testimonials to

bad

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

would be approximately one to ten zillion,

Are you making this up as you go along??

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Healthology/sept11HS_508939Alternati
veCancerTreatments020910.html

Many Cancer Patients Turn to Alternative Medicine
From HealthScoutNews

- TUESDAY, Sept. 10 (HealthScoutNews)-- More than 70 percent of adult

cancer

Quoted message said:

patients in western Washington use alternative therapies, and almost all

report

Quoted message said:

improvements in well-being as a result, a new study shows.

This telephone poll of a few of the still-living means nothing.

That seems to be your favorite words about anything thing posted here about
alternative.

I guess it means nothing that 70% used it with good improvements. IOW, you
don't really care.

Even

Quoted message said:

cancer patients can respond symptomatically to placebo,

OMG,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the whole 70% was due to placebo!!!!!!!

You are PATHETIC!!

and people will

Quoted message said:

rarely admit that they have chosen to waste their money on a treatment.

There was no mention of money, THEY FOUND IMPROVEMENTS!!!

Quoted message said:

Also if you read this piece carefully you will note that most patients did
not take the alternatives for curative reaons, which is clearly what I was
referring to.

Peter Moran

No it was not!!!

The reason they used it is explained in the study, I will put asterisks around
them.

It is PATHETIC that you think all these things listed are worthless.

Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??

BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Related Webcasts
. The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 1
. The Growing Popularity of Alternative Medicine, Part 2
. Can Needles Heal?
. Acupuncture: Can Needles Heal?
. Homeopathy: Helping Your Body Heal Itself

The research, the first population-based study of its kind to look at
predictors, motivators and costs of different types of alternative

medicine use

Quoted message said:

in adults with cancer, was conducted by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer

Research

Quoted message said:

Center. The findings were published in yesterday's issue of The Journal of
Alternative and Complementary Medicine.

Researcher Ruth E. Patterson and her colleagues at Fred Hutchinson's

Public

Quoted message said:

Health Sciences Division led the study, which was supported by grants from

the

Quoted message said:

National Cancer Institute and funds from Fred Hutchinson.

"This is the first study to specifically inquire about patients'

***attitudes regarding the

**effectiveness**

of alternative treatments," Patterson says.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Patients were considered users of alternative medicine if they received

care

Quoted message said:

from an alternative provider within the past year or had used at least one
alternative supplement or therapy.

Depending on the type of therapy, 83 percent to 97 percent of patients

surveyed

Quoted message said:

said they used

** alternative medicine for general health, and nearly all

Quoted message said:

reported

Quoted message said:

that use of these therapies improved their well-being.**

A smaller number of those surveyed, between 8 percent and 56 percent,

turned to

Quoted message said:

***alternative interventions to actually treat their cancer.***

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The most common form of alternative treatment was the use of dietary
supplements, which were taken by 65 percent of the patients, many of whom

used

Quoted message said:

several such products simultaneously.

Cancer type also appeared to influence alternative therapy use: for

example,

Quoted message said:

those with breast cancer were significantly more likely to see alternative
providers or take dietary supplements than were colon cancer patients

"Since most therapies were used to enhance overall health and well-being,

it

Quoted message said:

seems unlikely that patients would substitute these therapies for

conventional

Quoted message said:

medicine," Patterson says.

But, she adds,

NOW HEAR THIS!!

***"doctors should be wary of discounting alternativemedicine,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

given that the majority of patients overwhelmingly feel it improves their
quality of life.***

" The survey was based on telephone interviews with 356 adults who had

been

Quoted message said:

diagnosed with breast, prostate or colon cancer between February 1997 and
December 1998. The group was divided equally among men and women, with

equal

Quoted message said:

representation among the three types of cancer.

One limitation to the study, Patterson notes, is that use of alternative
medicine could be high in western Washington for a variety of reasons.

First, vitamin use is highest in the western United States compared to

other

Quoted message said:

areas of the nation. Also, health insurers in Washington are required by

state

Quoted message said:

law to provide coverage for licensed alternative providers.

****"Regardless of incidence of alternative medicine use in Washington, other

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

studies also indicate that alternative medicine use is common in patients

with

Quoted message said:

cancer," Patterson adds.***

More information The National Center for Complementary and Alternative

Medicine

Quoted message said:

has more information.

Quoted message said:

if the voices of disappointed
sufferers from cancer and other lethal diseases could be heard.

And each

Quoted message said:

of those will have used many, often literally dozens of the recommended
treatments.

Quoted message said:

I liked the ploy of someone who recently was being swamped with all the
"cures" that those with advanced cancer get offered these days. He

offered

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to pay double if the treatment worked. End of discussion.

Peter Moran

That happens many times when people make things up and are asked to show

the

Quoted message said:

proof.

Jan

Jan said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
Date: 7/31/2003 8:35 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
>From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
>Date: 7/31/2003 5:19 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>
>
>"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>
>>>Subject: Re: Quackery anecdotes wanted
>>>From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
>>>Date: 7/31/2003 1:30 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>>Message-id: <[email hidden]>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Anth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email hidden]...
>>>
>>>>Agreed I want to see some negative testimonials.
>>>>I've looked for them but I have not succeeded in finding many.
>>>>Anth
>>>
>>>Not a lot from the dead, no.
>>>
>>>Peter Moran
>>
>>How many people died from using alternative medicine, Peter???
>
>Quite a few,

Proof please.

Many have been mentioned here.

Sad excuse for proof.

Sort of like: "It is in the archives."

Snipped to prevent suffering.