Re: OT -- markksgggsh

Werehatrack said:

We are now all paying for the fact that we have a misleader who
refuses to admit that he lied

Prove he lied -- as opposed to relying on faulty intelligence that others
also believed and promoted* -- and I'm right with you. (Except for that
"we're all paying" part: 5+ years no attacks, low unemployment, low
inflation, record high stock markets, etc. Real rough.)

*Do we really need to drag out all those impassioned quotes from leading
Dems making the case for war, too? Or for that matter Clinton's Resolution
in the '90s making regime change in Iraq the "official policy" of the US?

I thought this was a cycling newsgroup. (Hell, my 11-month-old D-A rear
shifter turned to mush yesterday. Taking it in for warranty repair or
replacement today. I blame Bush.)

Bill S.

Werehatrack said:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:51:01 -0500, John Forrest Tomlinson

may have said:

The truth is that the die hard supporters can't admit publicly how
wrong they were.

Applicable to more than just politics, but made painfully obvious by
the current situation.

We are now all paying for the fact that we have a misleader who
refuses to admit that he lied, does not recognize that he made and
continues to make massive mistakes, and has no concept of the
difference between goals and plans. George Bush is not just
incompetent, he does not have the skills to recognize competence
itself, and some of those around him clearly lack that ability as
well. No other explanation fits the facts.

George Bush is in waaaay over his head. Look at his resume: he blew his
brains out with coke and booze while "running" a baseball team (Texas
Rangers), then became governor of a state, Texas, that really asks very
little of the governor's office. The only thing he had going into the
office of POTUS was the access to his very experienced father and his
father's advisors. Of course, he pretty much told them all to [censored]
when they told him what he didn't want to hear. And he did the same
with his only competent cabinet officer, Colin Powell.

People said: Blah blah whine drivel blah blah blah.

than, Bill said: Hell, my 11-month-old D-A rear shifter turned to mush
yesterday. Taking it in for warranty repair or replacement today. I
blame Bush.

No kidding? That's a short life for an expensive piece of equipment.
Was it from an LBS or an online purchase? I'm curious how the warranty
thing will pan out, I've never tried to warranty through Shimano.
How'd it fail? I would expect high-end road bike stuff to last years
on end, what with the general lack of abuse. I got a few years out of
my last XTR rear der. before I smashed it open on a rock, and that may
have been my fault. The front is quite a few years running (knocking
on wood). Update with how the LBS/e-shop/Shimano people handle this if
you wouldn't mind.

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:01:51 -0800, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Werehatrack said:

We are now all paying for the fact that we have a misleader who
refuses to admit that he lied

Prove he lied --

There are many examples. One example off the top of my head. In
approximately six weeks ago on the George Stephanapalous show, the
host asked Bush about the problems with staying the course and Bush
replied "We've never been stay the course." And yet there are many
public instances of Bush saying we/he/the US "will stay the course."

If he cannot be honest about something as simple and publiclly
documented as that, how can he be trusted.

More importantly, is that the best you can do know regarding Bush -- a
man who many, many former supporters have said has been incompetent
and even deceptive? That his critics have to prove he lied.

OK, put the proof of lying on me and outspoken critics of Bush. But
for you, is that level of performance you want in a president -- that
other people have to prove he lied? Wow, that's really a high
standard you set.

Quoted message said:

as opposed to relying on faulty intelligence that others
also believed and promoted* -- and I'm right with you.

No you're not unless you sad "I vigorously supported a president who
has been incompetent, a congress that has been dereflict in
supervision, and a variety of people behind Bush and the former
Republican leadership that have abused their power.

Quoted message said:

(Except for that
"we're all paying" part: 5+ years no attacks, low unemployment, low
inflation, record high stock markets, etc. Real rough.)

No attacks? Hmmm, what about the anthrax? What about the 3,000 dead
soldiers? Plus: Record personal bankruptcies. Rising numbers of
people w/o health insurance. Destruction of the natural environment.
And massive government debt. Sweet.

Quoted message said:

*Do we really need to drag out all those impassioned quotes from leading
Dems making the case for war, too?

Yes. They were all fromseveral years ago and that crowd has said a
variety of forms of we were duped, we were wrong, we were mistaken, we
would do it differently. Can you say any of those. Can Bush.

--
JT
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:01:51 -0800, "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Prove he lied -- as opposed to relying on faulty intelligence that others
also believed and promoted* -- and I'm right with you. (Except for that
"we're all paying" part: 5+ years no attacks, low unemployment, low
inflation, record high stock markets, etc. Real rough.)

*Do we really need to drag out all those impassioned quotes from leading
Dems making the case for war, too? Or for that matter Clinton's Resolution
in the '90s making regime change in Iraq the "official policy" of the US?

I thought this was a cycling newsgroup. (Hell, my 11-month-old D-A rear
shifter turned to mush yesterday. Taking it in for warranty repair or
replacement today. I blame Bush.)

True mark of a coward -- make a few comments on your point of view,
then complain about the thread being off-topic.

[repeated by me]

Quoted message said:

Prove he lied

Or Sorni, are you going to use the George Costanza view of lying
"It's not a lie if you believe it"?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Quoted message said:

People said: Blah blah whine drivel blah blah blah.

than, Bill said: Hell, my 11-month-old D-A rear shifter turned to
mush yesterday. Taking it in for warranty repair or replacement
today. I blame Bush.

Quoted message said:

No kidding? That's a short life for an expensive piece of equipment.
Was it from an LBS or an online purchase? I'm curious how the
warranty thing will pan out, I've never tried to warranty through
Shimano. How'd it fail? I would expect high-end road bike stuff to
last years on end, what with the general lack of abuse. I got a few
years out of my last XTR rear der. before I smashed it open on a
rock, and that may have been my fault. The front is quite a few
years running (knocking on wood). Update with how the
LBS/e-shop/Shimano people handle this if you wouldn't mind.

I got to the top of the hill at the end of my ride and couldn't shift back
down the rear cogs (no clicks). I thought I'd broken the cable, but down
shifting (to bigger cogs) still worked fine. Then was pretty sure that
either the thumb shifter had died OR the cable head was munged inside the
body (I heard Shimano had a bad batch of cables?).

ANyway, the cable WAS "uncoiled" a bit in there, but after getting it out
the shifter had no clicks in either direction -- mush. So I disconnected
the brake cable, ripped off the (pretty damned new) bar tape and pulled the
thing off.

I bought the shifter set from Performance (price match IIRC) last year, part
of building up a MadOne SL frame. I'd love for them to replace it, but
pretty sure they'll just send it to Big S for repair. (Only fear is if they
claim I broke something trying to get cable out. I think the cable was
defective, but that the shifter broke independently from that.) Yes I did
find the receipt (mail ordered it Red Phone for in-store pick-up); can't
find the box.

Years ago I bought some NOS 8-speed XT shifters for my mtb, and sure enough
the right one toasted. Took it in and they sent it to S; got it back and
has worked fine (though hardly used) since.

Dura-Ace has a three-year warranty, so this should be just a hassle and no
big deal. Knock on carbon.

Bill "back on the Klein" S.

PS: I must be a ham-fisted rear shifter? I seem to trash cables and
components way more than average...

I take it you live somewhere close enough that you can walk into a
Performance? I'd be in heaven if I could get near a shop that would
pricematch, especially if it had some competent employees. I always
worry about warranty & such when buying online, but usually find things
at about 50% of what the LBS charges. If once in a while I get the
short stick in that respect, I figure I'll have saved the difference a
few times over in not paying retail+ the local shops charge (fault of
the Republicans, of course). I'd likely have lost the receipt on the
broken part if it was an LBS purchase anyway. Props on keeping/finding
yours. Leaves me wondering what I did with the paperwork from the XTR
I recently replaced (that was an LBS purchase). In the bag with the
old pieces on my workbench in the basement IIRC? If I'm right, maybe
it should find its way to a new folder, labeled something like "Bike
Receipts".

To be fair, there are a couple shops in Portsmouth that I need to check
out before I write off the area completely.

How do you like the Klein? I almost never saw them back in MA, but
they're a dime a dozen in the part of NH I just moved to. I don't know
if they just recently became real popular, or if it's a southeastern NH
thing.

Quoted post said:

I take it you live somewhere close enough that you can walk into a
Performance? I'd be in heaven if I could get near a shop that would
pricematch, especially if it had some competent employees. I always
worry about warranty & such when buying online, but usually find things
at about 50% of what the LBS charges. If once in a while I get the
short stick in that respect, I figure I'll have saved the difference a
few times over in not paying retail+ the local shops charge (fault of
the Republicans, of course). I'd likely have lost the receipt on the
broken part if it was an LBS purchase anyway. Props on keeping/finding
yours. Leaves me wondering what I did with the paperwork from the XTR
I recently replaced (that was an LBS purchase). In the bag with the
old pieces on my workbench in the basement IIRC? If I'm right, maybe
it should find its way to a new folder, labeled something like "Bike
Receipts".

To be fair, there are a couple shops in Portsmouth that I need to check
out before I write off the area completely.

How do you like the Klein? I almost never saw them back in MA, but
they're a dime a dozen in the part of NH I just moved to. I don't know
if they just recently became real popular, or if it's a southeastern NH
thing.

There's a Performance here in the Phoenix, Arizona east valley - in
Chandler (I think...). It's a nice enough store, but I liked it
better when it was still a Supergo - they had a lot more strange
closeout stuff that was fun to browse through.

It is nice to have access to quite a few really well-stocked bike
shops in the area, for those time when ordering through my distributor
takes too long (as in "I forgot I needed this before the big
ride..."😉.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Bill Sornson said:

Dura-Ace has a three-year warranty, so this should be just a hassle and no
big deal. Knock on carbon.

This would be one reason to buy a bike that has down tube shift bosses
- then you can just keep a set of old friction shifters around and you
are NEVER off the road waiting for those brifters to get repaired.
;-)

Quoted message said:

Bill "back on the Klein" S.

PS: I must be a ham-fisted rear shifter? I seem to trash cables and
components way more than average...

Can I interest you in a fixie? ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

Dura-Ace has a three-year warranty, so this should be just a hassle
and no big deal. Knock on carbon.

This would be one reason to buy a bike that has down tube shift bosses
- then you can just keep a set of old friction shifters around and you
are NEVER off the road waiting for those brifters to get repaired.
;-)

I have a friend who complains when his new-ish BMW is in the shop and he's
forced to drive the old-ish Mercedes to meetings. <eg> -- see next line

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bill "back on the Klein" S.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS: I must be a ham-fisted rear shifter? I seem to trash cables and
components way more than average...

Quoted message said:

Can I interest you in a fixie? ;-)

That would trash MY components I think! (Knee issues, amongst many.)

Bill "will be seen in public with Ultegra-level bits" S.

:-P

Bill Sornson said:

Werehatrack said:

We are now all paying for the fact that we have a misleader who
refuses to admit that he lied

Prove he lied -- as opposed to relying on faulty intelligence that others
also believed and promoted* -- and I'm right with you. (Except for that
"we're all paying" part: 5+ years no attacks, low unemployment, low
inflation, record high stock markets, etc. Real rough.)

*Do we really need to drag out all those impassioned quotes from leading
Dems making the case for war, too? Or for that matter Clinton's Resolution
in the '90s making regime change in Iraq the "official policy" of the US?

I thought this was a cycling newsgroup. (Hell, my 11-month-old D-A rear
shifter turned to mush yesterday. Taking it in for warranty repair or
replacement today. I blame Bush.)

Warranty. Last time I sent a DA lever in, they even sent a
'prereplacement', before seeing the busted one. Or if time critical,
buy a set from MO, use right lever, when ya get the warranty one-get
yer $ back from MO.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Bill Sornson wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought this was a cycling newsgroup. (Hell, my 11-month-old D-A
rear shifter turned to mush yesterday. Taking it in for warranty
repair or replacement today. I blame Bush.)

Quoted message said:

Warranty. Last time I sent a DA lever in, they even sent a
'prereplacement', before seeing the busted one. Or if time critical,
buy a set from MO, use right lever, when ya get the warranty one-get
yer $ back from MO.

Took it to the local Performance since I ordered/picked it up there, and the
"manager" was rather cold and aloof about it but hopefully he'll send it to
Shimano and all will be OK. I have my backup bike to ride in meantime.

Bill "have a nagging bad feeling but trying to remain optimistic" S.

PS: Hell, I'll send it to you if they jerk me around! :-)

Bill Sornson said:

Mark Hickey said:

Bill Sornson said:

PS: I must be a ham-fisted rear shifter? I seem to trash cables and
components way more than average...

Quoted message said:

Can I interest you in a fixie? ;-)

That would trash MY components I think! (Knee issues, amongst many.)

Bill "will be seen in public with Ultegra-level bits" S.

Do they make Ultegra replacement knees now? This I did not know.

My coat? It's the one with the extra loose left sleeve for my rusty elbow.

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
THE LESSER-KNOWN PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #16: C-

This language was named for the grade received by its creator when he
submitted it as a class project in a graduate programming class. C- is best
described as a "low-level" programming language. In fact, the language
generally requires more C- statements than machine-code statements to
execute a given task. In this respect, it is very similar to COBOL.

Dane Buson said:

Bill Sornson said:

Mark Hickey said:

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> PS: I must be a ham-fisted rear shifter? I seem to trash cables and
> components way more than average...

Quoted message said:

Can I interest you in a fixie? ;-)

That would trash MY components I think! (Knee issues, amongst many.)

Bill "will be seen in public with Ultegra-level bits" S.

Do they make Ultegra replacement knees now? This I did not know.

I think I'd hold out for Campy joints.

Quoted message said:

My coat? It's the one with the extra loose left sleeve for my rusty elbow.

Shoulda gone with the titanium hardware. My wife's ACL replacement
involved quite a few ti screws, and there's no rust at all.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame