Re: OT - Crash Update

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him sick.
Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the toilet.
Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since last
Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

I've seen a lot of people react to Boost/Ensure/etc. that way. Too nutrient
dense for some people, especially those who can't eat anything at all. Can
lead to problems with gastric osmolarity, causing bloating, cramping, nausea
and vomiting and/or diarrhea, dehydration and electrolyte imbalance... if we
try to correct it with the substance that caused it, things get even worse.

The doctor might be able to put him on something nourishing but not as
overwhelming.

Damsel in dis Dress said:

The Joneses said:

Good luck, eat good - lots of calcium, vit. D food, & vit. C. and

protein

Quoted message said:

to heal with. Sounds like a chef salad to me, with lots of "stuff."
Edrena

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him sick.
Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the toilet.
Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since last
Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

In the meantime, I'm pushing the vitamin/mineral supplements, the
calcium, and continuing with the glucosamine (which he's been taking
for some time).

Carol

Ensure does taste icky, I thought Boost only slightly better. Try thinning
them with skim milk 50/50. Those drinks are so th-ick (!) that he might not
miss the fat. And tell him this fad diet of sick bones he's concocted to
lose weight is not fair to the rest of us (little g). When preggers I had
to take vitamins with food or they made me sick. Have tried the BRAT diet
for sick people? Bananas, rice, applesauce, or toast? I'd try the dry toast
first myself. And tell the specialist that his stomach is connected to his
hip bones by way of the belly button.
Edrena

pennyaline said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him

sick.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the

toilet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since

last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

I've seen a lot of people react to Boost/Ensure/etc. that way. Too

nutrient

Quoted message said:

dense for some people, especially those who can't eat anything at

all. Can

Quoted message said:

lead to problems with gastric osmolarity, causing bloating, cramping,

nausea

Quoted message said:

and vomiting and/or diarrhea, dehydration and electrolyte

imbalance... if we

Quoted message said:

try to correct it with the substance that caused it, things get even

worse.

Quoted message said:

The doctor might be able to put him on something nourishing but not

as

Quoted message said:

overwhelming.

We're calling the doctor tomorrow and I'll ask him about this. Ever
since going on the heavy-duty narcotics, he hasn't had an appetite, and
hasn't been able to keep anything down when he does try to eat. I'll
report back tomorrow.

Carol

Damsel in dis Dress said:

pennyaline said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him

sick.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the

toilet.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since

last

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help,

but

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

he's very much the specialist.

I've seen a lot of people react to Boost/Ensure/etc. that way. Too

nutrient

Quoted message said:

dense for some people, especially those who can't eat anything at

all. Can

Quoted message said:

lead to problems with gastric osmolarity, causing bloating,

cramping,

Quoted message said:

nausea

Quoted message said:

and vomiting and/or diarrhea, dehydration and electrolyte

imbalance... if we

Quoted message said:

try to correct it with the substance that caused it, things get

even

Quoted message said:

worse.

Quoted message said:

The doctor might be able to put him on something nourishing but not

as

Quoted message said:

overwhelming.

We're calling the doctor tomorrow and I'll ask him about this. Ever
since going on the heavy-duty narcotics, he hasn't had an appetite,

and

Quoted message said:

hasn't been able to keep anything down when he does try to eat. I'll
report back tomorrow.

Carol

Ensure and Boost are kind of rich, he may have more luck with a fruit
smoothie, like orange julious, with some Horlicks added. I know for
positive that no matter how sickly/poorly my appetite breast milk works
for me, on tap naturally. And you'd be surprised at how readily
available, I'm serious... have your doc write a scrip and your
insurance will pay.

Great website, one of the best: http://horlicks.com

Sheldon

One time on Usenet said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him sick.
Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the toilet.
Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since last
Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

I've seen a lot of people react to Boost/Ensure/etc. that way. Too nutrient
dense for some people, especially those who can't eat anything at all. Can
lead to problems with gastric osmolarity, causing bloating, cramping, nausea
and vomiting and/or diarrhea, dehydration and electrolyte imbalance... if we
try to correct it with the substance that caused it, things get even worse.

The doctor might be able to put him on something nourishing but not as
overwhelming.

Or you could try thinning the drink with some ice cream, milk,
or water (probably the latter). It wouldn't have as much nutrition,
but some is better than none...

--
Jani in WA ~ mom, vid gamer, novice cook ~
"The ships hung in the sky in much the same
way that bricks don't" - D. Adams, HGTTG

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him

sick.

Quoted message said:

Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the

toilet.

Quoted message said:

Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since

last

Quoted message said:

Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

In the meantime, I'm pushing the vitamin/mineral supplements, the
calcium, and continuing with the glucosamine (which he's been taking
for some time).

Carol

FWIW, I have had persistent nausea since a car wreck in Aug '03 - no
one really knows why. When I get really sick, all I can handle is
diluted ginger ale (1/4 to 1/2 strength) laden with crushed ice - and
if I sip on that for 12 hours or so, I can then handle light food.
Usually only cold cereal and skim milk, though. Once I hold that down,
I can eat "real" food. So you might try the diluted ginger ale trick
if you haven't already.

-L.

On Tue 03 May 2005 11:09:31p, -L. wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him
sick.
Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the toilet.
Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since last
Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

In the meantime, I'm pushing the vitamin/mineral supplements, the
calcium, and continuing with the glucosamine (which he's been taking
for some time).

Carol

FWIW, I have had persistent nausea since a car wreck in Aug '03 - no
one really knows why. When I get really sick, all I can handle is
diluted ginger ale (1/4 to 1/2 strength) laden with crushed ice - and
if I sip on that for 12 hours or so, I can then handle light food.
Usually only cold cereal and skim milk, though. Once I hold that down,
I can eat "real" food. So you might try the diluted ginger ale trick
if you haven't already.

-L.

Only once in my life have I been unable to eat anything and it lasted a bit
over a month. Could never figure out what caused it, a virus perhaps? A
friend insisted on taking me to a Bavarian restaurant for dinner one night.
A tradition there was bringing a pot of fresh chicken soup to the table.
When I tried the soup, it was the first thing I'd been able to keep down,
and I kept eating bowl after bowl. After that meal everything returned to
normal. For me, at least, that chicken soup was magic!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Damsel in dis Dress said:

We're calling the doctor tomorrow and I'll ask him about this. Ever
since going on the heavy-duty narcotics, he hasn't had an appetite, and
hasn't been able to keep anything down when he does try to eat. I'll
report back tomorrow.

I'm wishing you and Crash a lot of luck.

For the appetite thing, you don't happen to be in
California do you? This is one of the legitmate uses
for canabis, enabling people to eat who otherwise
can't because of narcotic induced nausea. Seriously.
Legal in Cali, and possibly a couple other states,
though the feds seem to disagree and I haven't kept
up on who has won the latest court battles.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

We're calling the doctor tomorrow and I'll ask him about this. Ever
since going on the heavy-duty narcotics, he hasn't had an appetite, and
hasn't been able to keep anything down when he does try to eat. I'll
report back tomorrow.

I'm wishing you and Crash a lot of luck.

For the appetite thing, you don't happen to be in
California do you? This is one of the legitmate uses
for canabis, enabling people to eat who otherwise
can't because of narcotic induced nausea. Seriously.
Legal in Cali, and possibly a couple other states,
though the feds seem to disagree and I haven't kept
up on who has won the latest court battles.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

That portion of California law has yet to be fully adjudicated and IIRC requires
a doctors prescription. See below:

http://www.canorml.org/laws/calmjlaws.html

Possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor under California Health and Safety Code
Section 11357. Possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less is punishable by a
maximum $100 fine. Jail time is possible for larger amounts or for hashish,
which is an optional felony ("wobbler"😉. However, under Prop 36, effective July
1, 2001, first- and second- time possession-only offenders may demand a
treatment program instead of jail. Upon successful completion of the program,
their conviction is erased. Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders
can also avoid conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in
which case their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion
program. Possession offenses are expunged from the record after two years under
Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be charged
under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC 11357 B.

Medical marijuana: Medical patients and their designated primary caregivers may
legally possess and cultivate, but not distribute or sell, marijuana under
Health and Safety Code 11362.5 (Prop 215) if they have a physician's
recommendation or approval.

"Dimitri" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Damsel in dis Dress said:

We're calling the doctor tomorrow and I'll ask him about this. Ever
since going on the heavy-duty narcotics, he hasn't had an appetite, and
hasn't been able to keep anything down when he does try to eat. I'll
report back tomorrow.

I'm wishing you and Crash a lot of luck.

For the appetite thing, you don't happen to be in
California do you? This is one of the legitmate uses
for canabis, enabling people to eat who otherwise
can't because of narcotic induced nausea. Seriously.
Legal in Cali, and possibly a couple other states,
though the feds seem to disagree and I haven't kept
up on who has won the latest court battles.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

That portion of California law has yet to be fully adjudicated and IIRC
requires a doctors prescription. See below:

http://www.canorml.org/laws/calmjlaws.html

Possession of marijuana is a misdemeanor under California Health and
Safety Code Section 11357. Possession of one ounce (28.5 gms) or less is
punishable by a maximum $100 fine. Jail time is possible for larger
amounts or for hashish, which is an optional felony ("wobbler"😉. However,
under Prop 36, effective July 1, 2001, first- and second- time
possession-only offenders may demand a treatment program instead of jail.
Upon successful completion of the program, their conviction is erased.
Possession (and personal use cultivation) offenders can also avoid
conviction by making a preguilty plea under Penal Code 1000, in which case
their charges are dismissed upon successful completion of a diversion
program. Possession offenses are expunged from the record after two years
under Health and Safety Code Sections 11361.5 and 11361.7.

Possession of one ounce or less in a vehicle while driving may also be
charged under Vehicle Code 23222, which is treated identically to HSC
11357 B.

Medical marijuana: Medical patients and their designated primary
caregivers may legally possess and cultivate, but not distribute or sell,
marijuana under Health and Safety Code 11362.5 (Prop 215) if they have a
physician's recommendation or approval.

She is in a small town in southern Minnesota. It would be hard for her to
get decent cannabis unless she has a connection in the local high school.
The stuff that grows wild hasn't come up yet and isn't very good anyway.
:-)

The medical establishment has drugs that can help with the problems as well.

del cecchi

Quoted message said:

The medical establishment has drugs that can help with the problems as
well.

Quoted message said:

I think it's called cabinol(sp) and it's made from the same stuff in
the weed. Plus you don't have to fill your lungs with smoke to get the
same results.

storm clouds said:

The medical establishment has drugs that can help with the problems as
well.

I think it's called cabinol(sp) and it's made from the same stuff in
the weed. Plus you don't have to fill your lungs with smoke to get the
same results.

Marinol. And we sometimes give it to AIDS patients and others in an
attempt to stimulate appetite. Some say it works, others says it's a
waste of money. YMMV.
Goomba

"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I wish he *could* eat. Even the smallest amount of food makes him sick.
Even some Ensure-type stuff (Boost) put him head-first in the toilet.
Gotta call the doc tomorrow. He hasn't had anything to eat since last
Monday. We'd figured that the ortho guy might be able to help, but
he's very much the specialist.

Sounds like Crash needs some marijuana to ease the nausea. You both are in
my prayers.

Charlie

Charles Gifford said:

Sounds like Crash needs some marijuana to ease the nausea. You both

are in

Quoted message said:

my prayers.

Um, well ... the doctor prescribed an anti-nausea medication this
morning after all else failed. 🙂

Crash still can't/won't eat, and he set fire to his pants for the
fourth time tonight. I was sitting next to him and noticed the smell
of burning sweatpants. We have quit-smoking patches, but he won't quit
until after his surgery. In the meantime, if he's not in bed, I have
to be right there with him, just in case.

The pain meds have him in an almost Alzheimer's state. I can't begin
to describe the disorientation he's suffering. I wasn't expecting it,
but I'm suffering a lot more than I ever thought I would, too. It
breaks my heart that he's not sure where he is or what's even wrong
with him. He's oblivious for the most part, so he's doing better than
I am in that respect.

I'm drilling him on what's wrong and what will be done when he has the
surgery. The doctor won't do it unless he knows that there's informed
consent. Why didn't we fill out the legal papers a long time ago?
Right now, I should be making this decision for him. But instead, I
have to get through the haze and make sure he can tell the doctor
what's going on and that he understands.

As soon as I feel fairly confident that he understands on a consistent
basis, I'm going to push to have the surgery moved up. This just can't
go on. There's already more than a month between now and the surgery.

I only read this one post. I'm so far behind, I'll never catch up.
I'm just on a quick break now, and am hoping he's not on fire in the
next room.

This is a working e-mail address, but I can't make any promises about
responding if you write. Thank you to everyone for your thoughts,
prayers, and encouragement. Keep 'em coming. 🙂

Love you all,
Carol (if I ever get Alzheimer's, someone shoot me)

On 4 May 2005 20:23:52 -0700, "Damsel in dis Dress"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

We have quit-smoking patches, but he won't quit
until after his surgery.

OMG, Dams...I have back surgery in my future (putting it off until I
can't stand the pain anymore) and my doc said smokers are the hardest
hit by major surgery. I don't smoke, but the DH does and he told the
DH that when I have to have the spinal fusion, even *he* has to quit
smoking long beforehand, even though he never smokes in the house or
car.

I know it's tough - I quit smoking 14 years ago and it was the hardest
thing I've ever done in my life.

<more snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm drilling him on what's wrong and what will be done when he has the
surgery. The doctor won't do it unless he knows that there's informed
consent. Why didn't we fill out the legal papers a long time ago?
Right now, I should be making this decision for him. But instead, I
have to get through the haze and make sure he can tell the doctor
what's going on and that he understands.

You might get a temporary guardianship if his doc will sign off on it
and you can find a willing judge to declare him non compos mentis. I
don't envy you, but I wish you godspeed.

<more snip>

Bless you both,
Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam Burd
AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA

"If the soup had been as hot as the claret, if the claret had been as
old as the bird, and if the bird's breasts had been as full as the
waitress's, it would have been a very good dinner."

-- Duncan Hines

To reply, replace "spaminator" with "cox"

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

I have back surgery in my future (putting it off until I
can't stand the pain anymore) and my doc said smokers are the hardest
hit by major surgery. I don't smoke, but the DH does and he told the
DH that when I have to have the spinal fusion, even *he* has to quit
smoking long beforehand, even though he never smokes in the house or
car.

Sorry ... I forgot to wish you well on your surgery. The good news is
that back surgery is much less painful than the abdominal stuff (at
least in my experience - 2 backs and 3 abdominals). I hope you'll have
only minimal pain, and a speedy recovery.

Carol

Terry Pulliam Burd said:

On 4 May 2005 20:23:52 -0700, "Damsel in dis Dress"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

We have quit-smoking patches, but he won't quit
until after his surgery.

OMG, Dams...I have back surgery in my future (putting it off until I
can't stand the pain anymore) and my doc said smokers are the hardest
hit by major surgery. I don't smoke, but the DH does and he told the
DH that when I have to have the spinal fusion, even *he* has to quit
smoking long beforehand, even though he never smokes in the house or
car.

This is very true. Neurosurgeons often tell patients they won't do
elective surgeries if the patient is still smoking, as the outcomes are
much less successful. If one has the time and inclination to quit it
will lower their surgical and post op risks.

Now segue into another common problem with hospitalized patients-
Drinking is something I need to know about when patients come in. Fifty
percent of all hospital admissions have some element of alcohol
involvement. The amount of patients who go into withdrawal while
hospitalized is phenomenal...and can truly complicate things. I have to
explain to the little old lady (aka the "LOL" who only sips a bit sherry
nightly during cocktail hour) that the reason I need to know how much
she drinks and when her last one was, is that I can monitor for the
withdrawal and anticipate the potential problems. I hate it when the
previously stable patient's BP suddenly rises sharply, they're sweating
bullets, antsy and cranky... and then within a day they're threshing
about in bed seeing spiders on the walls. Not fun for them.. or me!!
Goomba

On Sat 07 May 2005 06:26:16a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Terry Pulliam

Burd said:

On 4 May 2005 20:23:52 -0700, "Damsel in dis Dress"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

We have quit-smoking patches, but he won't quit until after his
surgery.

OMG, Dams...I have back surgery in my future (putting it off until I
can't stand the pain anymore) and my doc said smokers are the hardest
hit by major surgery. I don't smoke, but the DH does and he told the
DH that when I have to have the spinal fusion, even *he* has to quit
smoking long beforehand, even though he never smokes in the house or
car.

Interesting. I wonder why. The Widow Geraldine is having back surgery
on Monday and she's a heavy smoker. I wonder if the doc told her to
quit. Like it would carry any sway with her. :-/

The issue of smoking before surgery was raised on a tv program just last
week. All of the doctors felt that surgical patients should stop smoking
at least 2 weeks prior to their procedure. The anesthesiologists explained
that smoking compromised the lungs' ability to recover from gas type
anesthetics and reduced the effective breathing capacity. They showed a
comparison of patients immediately after surgery as they were beginning to
breath again unassisted. The difference between smokers and non-smokers
was dramatic, with smokers literally gasping for a breath and coughing
enough to tear sutures.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

On Sat 07 May 2005 07:20:40a, Dog3 wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

On Sat 07 May 2005 06:26:16a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in
rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Terry
Pulliam Burd <[email hidden]> wrote:

> On 4 May 2005 20:23:52 -0700, "Damsel in dis Dress"
> <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > We have quit-smoking patches, but he won't quit until after his
> > surgery.
>
> OMG, Dams...I have back surgery in my future (putting it off until I
> can't stand the pain anymore) and my doc said smokers are the
> hardest hit by major surgery. I don't smoke, but the DH does and he
> told the DH that when I have to have the spinal fusion, even *he*
> has to quit smoking long beforehand, even though he never smokes in
> the house or car.

Interesting. I wonder why. The Widow Geraldine is having back
surgery on Monday and she's a heavy smoker. I wonder if the doc told
her to quit. Like it would carry any sway with her. :-/

The issue of smoking before surgery was raised on a tv program just
last week. All of the doctors felt that surgical patients should stop
smoking at least 2 weeks prior to their procedure. The
anesthesiologists explained that smoking compromised the lungs'
ability to recover from gas type anesthetics and reduced the effective
breathing capacity. They showed a comparison of patients immediately
after surgery as they were beginning to breath again unassisted. The
difference between smokers and non-smokers was dramatic, with smokers
literally gasping for a breath and coughing enough to tear sutures.

I can see how that would happen. In my case I was so relaxed and drugged
up, I didn't cough or sneeze at all. I was my own worst enemy though.
Apparently in my morphine induce haze, I kept trying to tear out the IV
needles. Interestingly enough, I was told it was the feeding tube I went
after the most. I wanted real food dammit <G>

Michael

It's really hard to get those chunks of corned beef and barbecue down those
little tubes! :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974