Re: OS Maps on a website

I suspect the Anquet OS licence allows printing for personal use only.
Putting on a website is publishing to the world, so is presumably not
covered. The OS or Anquet will advise you.

On 25 Mar, 16:05, "sandy saunders" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

An interesting question about displaying OS maps:

As an owner of Anquet Mapping, I can print OS maps for personal use, though
not to be used for financial gain. When I open Anquet, the OS license
number is displayed on the splash-screen that allows me to print map sheets.
Now, does this OS license equate to a Paper Map license that the OS provide
(at an annual cost), and therefore allow me to 'legally' use a snapshot of a
map with a walk route on my website, and not be in breach of their
copyright?

--
Sandy Saunders @www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

In message <[email hidden]>, sandy saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

An interesting question about displaying OS maps:

As an owner of Anquet Mapping, I can print OS maps for personal use,
though not to be used for financial gain. When I open Anquet, the OS
license number is displayed on the splash-screen that allows me to
print map sheets. Now, does this OS license equate to a Paper Map
license that the OS provide (at an annual cost), and therefore allow me
to 'legally' use a snapshot of a map with a walk route on my website,
and not be in breach of their copyright?

Knowing the OS I very much doubt it. I think the Anquet licence only
allows you to print A4 paper maps for your own use.

Their website says:

"Get-a-map - is a free service on our website that allows a maximum of
10 images for use on your web pages. Please see the terms and
conditions of use: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/"

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/business/copyright/purpose/inte
rnaluse.html

Regards,

--
Neil Pugh

Quoted message said:

I suspect the Anquet OS licence allows printing for personal use only.
Putting on a website is publishing to the world, so is presumably not
covered. The OS or Anquet will advise you.

Well, I thought that, but a Paper License from the OS allow both unlimited
printing of maps for personal use, plus unlimited display of maps an a
website, but again must be not for financial gain. (The cost of a Paper
License from OS is about 44 pounds annually.) Was going to email Anquet,
but just interested as to what others thought!

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

Quoted message said:

"Get-a-map - is a free service on our website that allows a maximum of 10
images for use on your web pages. Please see the terms and conditions of
use: http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/getamap/"

The Get-a-map is 10 for free use, where as an annual license can be
purchased for about 44 pounds that allows unlimited display of maps on a
website ....... provided they are not for financial gain.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

Ysgrifennodd "sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect the Anquet OS licence allows printing for personal use only.
Putting on a website is publishing to the world, so is presumably not
covered. The OS or Anquet will advise you.

Well, I thought that, but a Paper License from the OS allow both unlimited
printing of maps for personal use, plus unlimited display of maps an a
website, but again must be not for financial gain. (The cost of a Paper
License from OS is about 44 pounds annually.) Was going to email Anquet,
but just interested as to what others thought!

It does seem a rather convoluted explanation on their site. They allow use
to support your business activities, if you have an overlay - so a walking
route would be OK. They even state that if you want to publish walks on your
website, then the paper licence is sufficient.

BUT. They appear to have a rather strict view of commercial gain. If you
have advertisements on your website, it seems that you do not count. So i'm
sure my site wouldn't count as i have some paid links and some
advertisements to *try* and cover the hosting fees - and if i had OS
mapping, to cover the cost of the licence. So far, i reckon that the website
has cost me more than i've gained financially from it.

Does anyone have experience of this? Do you use the mapping for walks and
have ads on your site (e.g. goooogle links etc) and have a definite answer
from OS on this? Because i'd definately not be making commercial gain from
the images. It seems a silly condition, as many websites use links by the
likes of google and tradedoubler to *partially* recoup hosting fees.

T Dave R

--

What hills have i been up recently?
www.walkeryri.org.uk

Quoted message said:

BUT. They appear to have a rather strict view of commercial gain. If you
have advertisements on your website, it seems that you do not count. So
i'm sure my site wouldn't count as i have some paid links and some
advertisements to *try* and cover the hosting fees - and if i had OS
mapping, to cover the cost of the licence. So far, i reckon that the
website has cost me more than i've gained financially from it.

They also have a 'very' strict view on what constitutes a map. A couple of
years ago I used to draw a line-diagram in Paintshop Pro of my route and put
that on the website. It wasn't a snapshot of the map, but my simple use of
a mouse to try and recreate 'roughly' the route, with text for villages and
hills. I also put on the diagram which OS map should be used for the area.
The first problem I had was an email from OS telling me I had an illegal map
on my site. Having checked all the pages and found no map, I ignored the
email. Some weeks later I received a rather long email from the OS stating
their cartographers had carried out a detailed inspection of my drawing and
I was in breach of their map copyright. My options were to either purchases
a license, remove the drawings, or face court proceedings to have my site
closed down if they were not removed. I took the 'easy' option and removed
them! Should have wrote to a national paper about the minow being hounded
by the a large government department.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

sandy saunders said:

Now, does this OS license equate to a Paper Map license that the OS provide
(at an annual cost), and therefore allow me to 'legally' use a snapshot of a
map with a walk route on my website, and not be in breach of their
copyright?

No.
Apart from the 10 you can display free using the Get-a-map facility, to display map segments on a
website you need a paper map copying license (rather oddly, you might think it would be an Internet
publishing license). This is about 47 quid a year last time I checked, even for personal non-profit
hobby websites like ours.

Our exact case is specifically answered in the OS FAQ (the third question in this list):-

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/business/copyright/purpose/internet.html

A few people are displaying them but they are taking a risk.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

Ysgrifennodd "sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> mewn neges
newyddion:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

BUT. They appear to have a rather strict view of commercial gain. If you
have advertisements on your website, it seems that you do not count. So
i'm sure my site wouldn't count as i have some paid links and some
advertisements to *try* and cover the hosting fees - and if i had OS
mapping, to cover the cost of the licence. So far, i reckon that the
website has cost me more than i've gained financially from it.

They also have a 'very' strict view on what constitutes a map. A couple
of years ago I used to draw a line-diagram in Paintshop Pro of my route
and put that on the website. It wasn't a snapshot of the map, but my
simple use of a mouse to try and recreate 'roughly' the route, with text
for villages and hills. I also put on the diagram which OS map should be
used for the area. The first problem I had was an email from OS telling me
I had an illegal map on my site. Having checked all the pages and found
no map, I ignored the email. Some weeks later I received a rather long
email from the OS stating their cartographers had carried out a detailed
inspection of my drawing and I was in breach of their map copyright. My
options were to either purchases a license, remove the drawings, or face
court proceedings to have my site closed down if they were not removed. I
took the 'easy' option and removed them! Should have wrote to a national
paper about the minow being hounded by the a large government department.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

It's this sort of behaviour i'm worried about :-s

I've emailed the OS directly, and i'll post their reply or the gist of it on
here as soon as they get back to me.

T Dave R

--

What hills have i been up recently?
www.walkeryri.org.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, sandy saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

An interesting question about displaying OS maps:

As an owner of Anquet Mapping, I can print OS maps for personal use,
though not to be used for financial gain. When I open Anquet, the OS
license number is displayed on the splash-screen that allows me to
print map sheets. Now, does this OS license equate to a Paper Map
license that the OS provide (at an annual cost), and therefore allow me
to 'legally' use a snapshot of a map with a walk route on my website,
and not be in breach of their copyright?

As a slight aside - I use Google Earth kml files on my website to show
the GPS tracklogs superimposed on Google Earth. This obviously works
best where GE has high def photos:

eg

http://www.ndpugh.plus.com/Google%20Earth.htm

This has the advantage of getting around all OS restrictions, but the
disadvantage is that it is a bit more work for anyone wishing to view
the route.

Regards,
--
Neil Pugh

Quoted message said:

As a slight aside - I use Google Earth kml files on my website to show the
GPS tracklogs superimposed on Google Earth. This obviously works best
where GE has high def photos:

eg

http://www.ndpugh.plus.com/Google%20Earth.htm

This has the advantage of getting around all OS restrictions, but the
disadvantage is that it is a bit more work for anyone wishing to view the
route.

Looks good Neil, although I was wanted to use an OS snapshot of my routes so
others could see in detail where the walk goes.

--
Sandy Saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
'Mountains or Mole Hills, summiting
still brings the same excitement!'

GeoffC said:

sandy saunders said:

Now, does this OS license equate to a Paper Map license that the OS provide
(at an annual cost), and therefore allow me to 'legally' use a snapshot of a
map with a walk route on my website, and not be in breach of their
copyright?

No.
Apart from the 10 you can display free using the Get-a-map facility, to display map segments on a
website you need a paper map copying license (rather oddly, you might think it would be an Internet
publishing license). This is about 47 quid a year last time I checked, even for personal non-profit
hobby websites like ours.

Our exact case is specifically answered in the OS FAQ (the third question in this list):-

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/business/copyright/purpose/...

A few people are displaying them but they are taking a risk.

-- GeoffC

Take out TheEnemy to email me

http://v-g.me.uk

I also use Google Maps and GPX files, no where near as good as the OS,
on my site http://gpssharing.com.

Some time ago I looked at licencing digital OS maps, and found the
cost and OS copyright impossible, you either pay lots of money for an
annual licence or run the very high risk of being 'sued' or forced to
remove the images from your site, if it is 'commercial' it is just not
worth the risk.

I would love to legally buy digital OS maps which I coud place on my
web site, but I found it impossible to legally do this, also Get-a-Map
only alows a few ties to be displayed on your web site.

Ted

ted said:

I also use Google Maps and GPX files, no where near as good as the OS,
on my site http://gpssharing.com.

I was going to mention that. Google allows you to use interactive Google
maps on your site. As you say, not as good as OS maps, but the satellite
view is pretty good. Check it out here if you want to sign up for it.
http://www.google.com/apis/maps/

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

sandy saunders said:

Was
going to email Anquet, but just interested as to what others thought!

If you do email Anquet, ask them if it's okay to use a screenshot of the
photo mapping, in particular the 3D photo mapping view. It would be very
handy to draw a route over the map, switch to the photo map view in 3D, then
play about with the viewpoint and lighting settings to get a nice
three-dimensional overview of the walk. I find that this can be very
informative.

Flat photo maps often make little sense, but in 3D with appropriate lighting
and viewpoint, they can look almost like the real thing.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Neil Pugh said:

As a slight aside - I use Google Earth kml files on my website to show
the GPS tracklogs superimposed on Google Earth. This obviously works
best where GE has high def photos:

Quoted message said:

This has the advantage of getting around all OS restrictions, but the
disadvantage is that it is a bit more work for anyone wishing to view
the route.

As I mentioned in another post, it would be better to put Google maps
directly onto your site. You could probably superimpose the kml files over
them. It's highly configurable, you can add all sort of details of your own
to it. The link is in the other post.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Neil Pugh said:

As a slight aside - I use Google Earth kml files on my website to show
the GPS tracklogs superimposed on Google Earth. This obviously works
best where GE has high def photos:

Quoted message said:

This has the advantage of getting around all OS restrictions, but the
disadvantage is that it is a bit more work for anyone wishing to view
the route.

As I mentioned in another post, it would be better to put Google maps
directly onto your site. You could probably superimpose the kml files over
them. It's highly configurable, you can add all sort of details of your own
to it. The link is in the other post.

Paul

Thanks for that, I'll take a look.

Regards
--
Neil Pugh

The message <[email hidden]>
from "sandy saunders" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

They also have a 'very' strict view on what constitutes a map. A couple of
years ago I used to draw a line-diagram in Paintshop Pro of my route
and put
that on the website. It wasn't a snapshot of the map, but my simple use of
a mouse to try and recreate 'roughly' the route, with text for villages and
hills. I also put on the diagram which OS map should be used for the area.
The first problem I had was an email from OS telling me I had an
illegal map
on my site. Having checked all the pages and found no map, I ignored the
email. Some weeks later I received a rather long email from the OS stating
their cartographers had carried out a detailed inspection of my drawing and
I was in breach of their map copyright. My options were to either purchases
a license, remove the drawings, or face court proceedings to have my site
closed down if they were not removed. I took the 'easy' option and removed
them! Should have wrote to a national paper about the minow being hounded
by the a large government department.

You should have told them you used an out of copyright 1" as the basis
for the overview and your gps track for the track itself and any POIs
you might have included that weren't named on the 1". It should be
fairly easy to get hold of a 1" over 50 years old if you don't happen to
have one to start with. 1:25000 maps would be a good deal scarcer.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.

T Dave R said:

So far, i reckon
that the website has cost me more than i've gained financially from
it.

I doubt they care whether you're making a profit or not, simply that your
site is generating revenue.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have experience of this? Do you use the mapping for walks
and have ads on your site (e.g. goooogle links etc) and have a
definite answer from OS on this? Because i'd definately not be making
commercial gain from the images.

You might not be making any money from the images directly, but it could be
argued that you're making money from them indirectly. You make money from
visitors clicking on the ads. If you add maps to your site then that's an
incentive for more people to visit your site, which in turn means that more
ads are likely to be clicked on.

Quoted message said:

It seems a silly condition, as many
websites use links by the likes of google and tradedoubler to
*partially* recoup hosting fees.

It's not so silly. While many sites only make a few pennies out of the ads,
some sites exist purely for the purpose of getting people to click on the
ads, so called "AdSense Sites" (they're easy to spot because the ads are "in
your face" and the content is often pretty [censored]). Many of these sites use
content from article libraries rather than writing their own, because
they're not really interested in providing a genuine service to visitors,
they just want people to click on the ads. Many people actually use paid ads
(AdWords) to drive traffic to their sites, hoping to make more money from
AdSense than they spend on AdWords.

Apparently this can work very well. Some people claim to make a lot of money
out of these AdSense sites, some have even set up hundreds of different
"niche" sites, each containing only a few pages of content stuffed with ads,
and make a very nice living out of it, apparently. On the other hand I
suspect there are many more people trying to make a nice living out of it
and failing dismally.

But the fact is that many sites with ads only exist for the purpose of
making money out of those ads, and that's no doubt why the OS are so strict
about it.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

sandy saunders said:

Was
going to email Anquet, but just interested as to what others thought!

If you do email Anquet, ask them if it's okay to use a screenshot of the
photo mapping, in particular the 3D photo mapping view. It would be very
handy to draw a route over the map, switch to the photo map view in 3D,
then play about with the viewpoint and lighting settings to get a nice
three-dimensional overview of the walk. I find that this can be very
informative.

Flat photo maps often make little sense, but in 3D with appropriate
lighting and viewpoint, they can look almost like the real thing.

What about OS maps in 3D ? You can't buy a paper map with 3D so you can't
break any laws regarding copyright of paper maps.
Not that I'm doing such a thing. Really.

--
"Beannachd leibh"

Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

Theo said:

What about OS maps in 3D ? You can't buy a paper map with 3D so you
can't break any laws regarding copyright of paper maps.

I very much doubt that. "Reproduction in whole or part by any means is
prohibited..."

I'd say that a 3D transformation qualifies as a means of reproducing a map.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk