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Re: Oops, bloody cyclists ...

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UK and Europe
Published
8 March 2008
Last activity
8 March 2008
Original author
The Older Gentleman
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  1. Trevor A Panther said:

    I cycle daily and manage about 4-5000 miles a year and I see an awful lot ( a
    hell of a lot!) of POB's ( pratts on bicycles) ignoring traffic lights and
    cycling on pavements causing chaos in their wake.

    Oh yes.

    Quoted message said:


    I even see a lot of, what I consider to be, cyclists also ignoring traffic
    lights and putting themselves at risk. And of course the gutter huggers
    sidling up the inside of vehicles at the same traffic lights instead of
    waiting in line in the prime position.

    I cannot take the "holier than thou attitude" expressed by many cyclists which
    automatically assumes that the cyclist is always the innocent party.

    It seems to stem from the 'environmental' thing. "Look at me! I'm being
    ecological!".

    Quoted message said:


    And don't dare make a comment to any of these miscreants because you will
    generally get the same mouthful a verbal abuse hurled at you as you do from
    anyone else on the road! Sadly we live in a society that is almost totally
    self centred.

    Agree here. It's not just cyclists.

    Quoted message said:


    All that being said I do find, on a daily basis, that I experience "incidents"
    "near misses" while cycling on road. There are vehicle drivers who just
    "chance it" a lot, there are a few ( very few, but too many) who deliberately
    will close a cyclist down. And dare I say it there are a huge amount of
    traffic light jumpers -- it seems to be becoming the standard thing to do --
    never mind going through on amber I have watched several vehicles at a time
    driving fast through reds. I live about 100 metres from a busy crossroads and
    see it every time I stand and watch. The "chance it brigade"!

    And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
    give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
    there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
    prepared to jump the red.

    Oddly, I might just have got caught by a red light camera myself today,
    on my little 1974 125. Honking up to the lights, which started to
    change, applied brakes, and realised that 1974 single leading shoe drums
    weren't going to stop me in time, so I whacked open the throttle
    instead. I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
    have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
    shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.

    Memo to self: remember to ride within limits of SOB brakes.

    --
    BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
    GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
    BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
    chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

  2. On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000, [email hidden]
    (The Older Gentleman) said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I cannot take the "holier than thou attitude" expressed by many cyclists which
    automatically assumes that the cyclist is always the innocent party.

    Quoted message said:

    It seems to stem from the 'environmental' thing. "Look at me! I'm being
    ecological!".

    Also the vulnerability thing. There's an interesting book called
    "one false move" by Hillman and Whitelegg which shows how in some
    countries children are encouraged to be independently mobile, and
    adults are expected to apply extra care around them, whereas in
    others they are taught to get out of the way of the fast and
    dangerous motor cars. This of course becomes worse as those brought
    up in the culture of deference to the car themselves become drivers.

    In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
    courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
    because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
    potential to harm.

    It does not seem to me to be especially problematic to require a
    higher standard of care from those whose mode of transport poses
    more danger to others.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  3. Just zis Guy said:

    In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
    courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
    because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
    potential to harm.

    Funny, that. I'd tend to agree. And as I have a full HGV licence, I'd
    agree with what you say re their size and potential to harm. It was
    dinned into me.

    As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
    You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
    stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
    traffic behaviour like no other.

    --
    BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
    GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
    BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
    chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

  4. Andy Bonwick said:

    you just know that one will be an Irish HGV driver who's
    piece of [censored] truck will do 63mph so he just indicates and pulls over
    creating his own little procession

    So true.

    --
    BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F & SL125
    GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
    BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
    chateau dot murray at idnet dot com

  5. On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:04:34 +0000, [email hidden]
    (The Older Gentleman) said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
    You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
    stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
    traffic behaviour like no other.

    Ah, yes, anticipation. A sadly under-appreciated skill, and one I
    find tends to improve the more I cycle (since we have the same
    problem as HGVs: getting moving from a standing start is just hard
    work). This probably brings us full circle, of course, since that's
    why cyclists are more likely to jump a red :-)

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  6. On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, The Older
    Gentleman says:

    Quoted message said:

    And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
    give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
    there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
    prepared to jump the red.

    AOL. The other thing I find I have to watch is that when the lights
    are in the process of changing as I approach a check behind is needed
    to make sure that as I stop I don't get shunted by some idiot. Who
    assumes that I won't stop and therefore nor will s/he. I've had
    various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
    before now.

    Quoted message said:

    I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
    have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
    shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.

    I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
    reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
    longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

    --
    Ian
    spam http://www.justgiving.com/ianblakeley

  7. On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:04:34 +0000, [email hidden] (The
    Older Gentleman) squeezed out the following:

    Quoted message said:
    Just zis Guy said:

    In my experience, lorry drivers are amongst the most careful and
    courteous on the roads (with the usual exceptions of course),
    because they have been trained to be aware of their size and
    potential to harm.

    Funny, that. I'd tend to agree. And as I have a full HGV licence, I'd
    agree with what you say re their size and potential to harm. It was
    dinned into me.

    As was the other sine qua non of big truck driving: "maintain progress".
    You're taught to keep the damn thing moving at all costs, rather than
    stop, and that in turn teaches anticipation of road conditions and
    traffic behaviour like no other.

    I wasn't taught as such, but I learnt the same thing driving our old
    Bedford horsebox. Anticipation is everything, and you learn to make
    use of all the road signs. And you give all other road users, not
    least cyclists, a wide berth because you really don't want to have to
    brake hard if someone does something unexpected.

    --
    Colin Irvine
    YZF1000R BOF#33 BONY#34 COFF#06 BHaLC#5
    http://www.colinandpat.co.uk

  8. On 08/03/2008 12:49, [email hidden] said,

    Quoted message said:

    I've had
    various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
    before now.

    I'll AOL as well on that one :-)

    Quoted message said:

    I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
    reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
    longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

    I've no idea whether or not there is a delay, but in my opinion there
    should be none. The lights go amber first, and the idea is that road
    users stop at amber if they can safely do so. By the time the lights
    are red, the amber warning has been lit for long enough for traffic to
    be stopped. The problem is that lights are too often seen as green for
    go, amber for go, red for "let's chance it".

    --
    Paul Boyd
    http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

  9. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
    reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
    longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

    If memory serves it *was* two seconds when they were first introduced, but
    now it's one second longer on the amber phase then one second past red
    triggers it.

    --
    Dan White
    ([email hidden])
    Perform an exorcism when replying.

  10. On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:03:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, Paul Boyd
    says:

    Quoted message said:

    On 08/03/2008 12:49, [email hidden] said,

    Quoted message said:

    I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
    reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
    longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

    I've no idea whether or not there is a delay, but in my opinion there
    should be none.

    I don't disagree, IIRC it was to do with not catching those still
    legally crossing wherever the lights controlled and to be dead sure
    that someone on camera was bang to rights.

    I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
    I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
    is a delay before activation.

    --
    Ian
    spam http://www.justgiving.com/ianblakeley

  11. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:


    I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
    I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
    is a delay before activation.

    The only reference I can find now suggests a "grace period" of "up to half a
    second", but seeing as that's on Wikipedia it's probably bollocks ;-)

    --
    Dan White
    ([email hidden])
    Perform an exorcism when replying.

  12. On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 12:49:10 +0000, [email hidden] said in
    <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    I've had
    various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
    before now.

    True dat.

    Guy
    --
    May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

  13. The Older Gentleman said:

    And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I always
    give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too
    often there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers
    too) prepared to jump the red.

    We weren't stood .. the lights had turned green for me well before I
    crossed. I was effectively just proceeding along the road. Laddo Also
    can't have been stood, he was going at some pace. Neither of us quite
    had time to stop, but it was close.

    --
    Paul - [censored]

    '96/'97 Landrover Discovery 300 Tdi 'Big and Butch'
    '98 Suzuki DR 200 Djebel 'Small but perfectly formed'
    Dyna Tech Cro-Mo comp "When I feel fit enough'

  14. Just zis Guy said:

    ... cyclists are ... likely to jump a red :-)

    I can't remember whether that's the first time you've admitted that.

  15. Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:14:55 +0000 in uk.rec.motorcycles, The Older
    Gentleman says:

    Quoted message said:

    And agree here, too. Nowadays, when the lights turn green, I *always*
    give a quick check both ways before starting off, because all too often
    there's some prat (not just a cyclist, but car and van drivers too)
    prepared to jump the red.

    AOL. The other thing I find I have to watch is that when the lights
    are in the process of changing as I approach a check behind is needed
    to make sure that as I stop I don't get shunted by some idiot. Who
    assumes that I won't stop and therefore nor will s/he. I've had
    various rude words mouthed from behind because I've stopped on a red
    before now.

    Quoted message said:

    I went across the line *just* as the lights turned red: might
    have been a millisecond before, might have been a millisecond after, We
    shall see whether a buff envelope drops through the letterbox.

    I seem to recall that there's a delay built into RL cameras, for some
    reason two seconds springs to mind - but that seems an awfully
    longtime. Anyway I reckon on a spilt second you'll be OK.

    He'll certainly be OK if the camera didn't flash - twice. As you say,
    there is a delay - though I doubt it's as long as 2 seconds.

    Two seconds does seem to have a traffic-light significance though,
    especially in London. I think it's the maximum time on green. If it were
    any longer, two vehicles might get through, and Mad Ken can't be doing
    with that.

  16. Dan White said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    I see Dan has answered about his recollection of the two second delay.
    I've had a quick google but didn't find anything that suggests there
    is a delay before activation.

    The only reference I can find now suggests a "grace period" of "up to half a
    second", but seeing as that's on Wikipedia it's probably bollocks ;-)


    ISTR a ChiefPlod on the radio a while ago stating that if traffic flow
    is moving below a certain speed that the red light cameras somehow sense
    this and don't go off.

    IASTR that I didn't believe him, so I don't know why I've just gone to
    the bother of typing this out. I think I'll press "Send" anyway.

    --
    Pete M - OMF#9
    Range Rover V8 Turbo
    Scorpio Ultima 24v
    "Professional Petrolhead"

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