Re: New bike, new bike!

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The pedals need to be done up REALLY tight

Disagree. Quite tight, but definitely not heaving on the spanner tight.
Pedals can be installed with a 6mm allen key, which normally only has a
lever about 3 inches long. Thus you don't need more than can be applied with
this.

cheers,
clive

In article <[email hidden]>

Clive George said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The pedals need to be done up REALLY tight

Disagree. Quite tight, but definitely not heaving on the spanner tight.
Pedals can be installed with a 6mm allen key, which normally only has a
lever about 3 inches long. Thus you don't need more than can be applied with
this.

Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before they
would have loosened.

Rob Morley said the following on 29/08/2006 15:07:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before they
would have loosened.

I always do up pedals very tight not because of any danger that they
might undo, but to eliminate one cause of creaking. I've found that
even with the threads greased, if they ain't tight enough, they can
creak. I tend to use a 12" adjustable - that does it!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

In article <[email hidden]>
Paul Boyd <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I always do up pedals very tight not because of any danger that they
might undo, but to eliminate one cause of creaking. I've found that
even with the threads greased, if they ain't tight enough, they can
creak. I tend to use a 12" adjustable - that does it!

If it's creaking it's moving, and if it's moving it can undo itself or
chew the crank up.

Clive George said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The pedals need to be done up REALLY tight

Disagree. Quite tight, but definitely not heaving on the spanner
tight. Pedals can be installed with a 6mm allen key, which normally
only has a lever about 3 inches long. Thus you don't need more than
can be applied with this.

Half way between quite tight and really tight seems right to me.

The direction of the thread and the movement stops pedals coming undone, as
long as they're given a chance to begin with.

www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html
- "The precession effect doesn't substitute for screwing your pedals in
good and tight. It is very important to do so. The threads (like virtually
all threads on a bicycle) should be lubricated with grease, or at least with
oil. "

See also www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/left.html

~PB

in message <[email hidden]>, Clive

George (') said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The pedals need to be done up REALLY tight

Disagree. Quite tight, but definitely not heaving on the spanner tight.

Just so. Copper grease, and do them up nice and snug but not over tight.

Quoted message said:

Pedals can be installed with a 6mm allen key, which normally only has a
lever about 3 inches long. Thus you don't need more than can be applied
with this.

More important, you may need to take a pedal /off/ when you only have an
allen key available.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

in message <[email hidden]>, Rob Morley

(') said:

In article <[email hidden]>

Clive George said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The pedals need to be done up REALLY tight

Disagree. Quite tight, but definitely not heaving on the spanner
tight. Pedals can be installed with a 6mm allen key, which normally
only has a lever about 3 inches long. Thus you don't need more than
can be applied with this.

Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike.

I'm neither a featherweight nor a wimp and I've never - in what must now
be getting on for quarter of a million miles on a bike - had a pedal
come loose. I've never used force to tighten one, either.

I've had cranks come off, but not pedals.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Wannabe a Web designer?
<URL:http://userfriendly.org/cartoons/archives/97dec/19971206.html>

In article <[email hidden]>
Simon Brooke <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm neither a featherweight nor a wimp and I've never - in what must now
be getting on for quarter of a million miles on a bike - had a pedal
come loose. I've never used force to tighten one, either.

If you don't use force what do you use - telekinesis?

Rob Morley said:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before
they would have loosened.

If you use a proper long pedal spanner and do them up as tight as you can
possably can, its not that hard to strip them.

And bloody embarasing to have to explain why some lucky punter has a new
crank.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

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In article <[email hidden]>

AndyMorris said:

Rob Morley said:

Quoted message said:

Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before
they would have loosened.

If you use a proper long pedal spanner and do them up as tight as you can
possably can, its not that hard to strip them.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you don't have to pull really
hard to get it snug.

Quoted message said:

And bloody embarasing to have to explain why some lucky punter has a new
crank.

I don't think I ever managed to do that - ISTR the worst I ever did was
to damage some frame stickers by careless clamping in the work stand. I
have stripped some cranks when removing seized pedals, but who hasn't?
:-)

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>

AndyMorris said:

Rob Morley said:

>
Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before
they would have loosened.

If you use a proper long pedal spanner and do them up as tight as you can
possably can, its not that hard to strip them.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you don't have to pull really
hard to get it snug.

But you said 'REALLY tight', not just 'snug'. I'll happily agree with snug.

Is the problem that our definitions of 'REALLY tight' differ? My car wheel
nuts are about 60 lbft, and these aren't really tight in my world. FWD car
front hub nuts and tandem freewheels after they've seen some steep hills are
what count as that IMO.

cheers,
clive

In article <[email hidden]>
Clive George <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

But you said 'REALLY tight', not just 'snug'. I'll happily agree with snug.

The sort of snug that you get with a pedal spanner, not a 3 inch allen
key :-)

Quoted message said:

Is the problem that our definitions of 'REALLY tight' differ? My car wheel
nuts are about 60 lbft, and these aren't really tight in my world. FWD car
front hub nuts

Stick pipe on T-bar attached to socket, stand on pipe - that's not
tight, but Mini flywheels can be :-)

Quoted message said:

and tandem freewheels after they've seen some steep hills are
what count as that IMO.

Thank goodness for freehubs :-)

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>
Clive George <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

But you said 'REALLY tight', not just 'snug'. I'll happily agree with
snug.

The sort of snug that you get with a pedal spanner, not a 3 inch allen
key :-)

Quoted message said:

Is the problem that our definitions of 'REALLY tight' differ? My car
wheel
nuts are about 60 lbft, and these aren't really tight in my world. FWD
car
front hub nuts

Stick pipe on T-bar attached to socket, stand on pipe - that's not
tight, but Mini flywheels can be :-)

Stand on pipe, shear off 1/2" drive. Go and borrow 3/4" socket set. That was
tight enough for me :-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and tandem freewheels after they've seen some steep hills are
what count as that IMO.

Thank goodness for freehubs :-)

Ho yus indeed :-)

cheers,
clive

In article <[email hidden]>
Clive George <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

Stand on pipe, shear off 1/2" drive.

I've got too much mechanical sympathy to do something like that - honest
;^>

Quoted message said:

Go and borrow 3/4" socket set.

That's definitely something that's better to borrow than to buy, if
you're only going to need it occasionally.

In article said:

In article <[email hidden]>

AndyMorris said:

Rob Morley said:

>
Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch allen
key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if you park it
outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in place before
they would have loosened.

If you use a proper long pedal spanner and do them up as tight as you can
possably can, its not that hard to strip them.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you don't have to pull really
hard to get it snug.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you can pull hard to _undo_
stuck pedals when necessary. The point of opposite handed threads is to
make the pedals self-tightening so long as they are done up vaguely tightly
in the first place. (The point of threadlock is to let you get away with
pedals on the wrong side when improvising a tandem drivechain on the cheap.)

Clive George said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George <[email hidden]> wrote:

Stick pipe on T-bar attached to socket, stand on pipe - that's not
tight, but Mini flywheels can be :-)

Stand on pipe, shear off 1/2" drive. Go and borrow 3/4" socket set. That was
tight enough for me :-)

Undoing the bearing retainer rings on my Alfa rear axle involved a MIG welder
to make a suitable tool and two people jumping on 6ft scaffold poles....

Alan Braggins said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Rob

Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>

AndyMorris said:

Rob Morley wrote:
>>
> Absolutely disagree - unless you're a featherweight/wimp or use
> threadlock compound then pedals tightened only with a three inch
> allen key /will/ come loose if you ride the bike. Of course, if
> you park it outside and hardly ride it then they might corrode in
> place before they would have loosened.

If you use a proper long pedal spanner and do them up as tight as
you can possably can, its not that hard to strip them.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you don't have to pull
really hard to get it snug.

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you can pull hard to _undo_
stuck pedals when necessary.

Thats what I realised after giving away a pair of cranks. :-(

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

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In article <[email hidden]>
Alan Braggins <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you can pull hard to _undo_
stuck pedals when necessary.

Maybe with steel cranks - with alloy, giving it big welly will often rip
at least part of the thread out if the pedal is seized tight. Much
better to apply some heat and not pull so hard.

Quoted message said:

The point of opposite handed threads is to
make the pedals self-tightening so long as they are done up vaguely tightly
in the first place.

Disagree - if you don't do them up well tight to start with they will
work loose, if the left hand pedal didn't have a left hand thread it
would work loose even if it was done up tight to start with.

Quoted message said:

(The point of threadlock is to let you get away with
pedals on the wrong side when improvising a tandem drivechain on the cheap.)

It can also save a crank with a slightly knackered pedal thread.

Rob Morley said:

In article <[email hidden]>
Alan Braggins <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

The point of a long pedal spanner is that you can pull hard to _undo_
stuck pedals when necessary.

Maybe with steel cranks - with alloy, giving it big welly will often
rip at least part of the thread out if the pedal is seized tight.
Much better to apply some heat and not pull so hard.

Depends what expands when you heat it. If the alloy gets fatter it could
make things tighter against the shoulder of the pedal spindle. What you may
be seeing with heat moving parts which have stuck against each other.

I've never had to resort to heat to remove a pedal or a crank. Just a long
lever to release some pedals.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The point of opposite handed threads is to
make the pedals self-tightening so long as they are done up vaguely
tightly in the first place.

Disagree - if you don't do them up well tight to start with they will
work loose, if the left hand pedal didn't have a left hand thread it
would work loose even if it was done up tight to start with.

Looks like this thread is going to go ding-dong-ding-dong for ever.

FWIW, I tighten pedals moderately, using a firm shove on a normal allen key.
I've never had one work loose, but I've frequently had to resort to an
extension bar to undo them.
Alloy cranks have been standard on all our household bikes for 20 years, and
I've never stripped a thread in any of them (pedal or bottom bracket puller
thread).

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/