General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Meditation for healing (esp: hypertension)

Started by Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD · · Last activity · 7 posts · 348 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
29 August 2004
Last activity
31 August 2004
Original author
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
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7
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  1. Mozz said:


    'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one form
    or another.

    Christians call it prayer.

    Quoted message said:

    The value of Meditation to alleviate suffering and promote
    healing has been known and practiced for thousands of years.

    In spite of its rich history and traditions, it is only during the
    past three decades that scientific study has focused on the clinical
    effects of meditation on health. During the 1960s, reports reached the
    West of yogis and meditation masters in India who could perform
    extraordinary feats of bodily control and altered states of
    consciousness. These reports captured the interest of Western
    researchers studying self-regulation and the possibility of voluntary
    control over the autonomic nervous system. At the same time, new
    refinements in scientific instrumentation made it possible to
    duplicate and substantiate some of these reports at medical research
    institutes. Health care professionals who were often dissatisfied with
    the side effects of drug treatments for stress-related disorders
    embraced meditation as a valuable tool for stress reduction, and today
    both patients and physicians enjoy the health benefits of regular
    meditation practice.

    Yes, prayer works.

    Quoted message said:

    He discovered by studying various yogis and longtime meditators that
    the meditation process counteracted the effects of the sympathetic
    nervous system-the one that wants to fight or flee. Whereas the
    sympathetic system dilates the pupils and gets the heart rate,
    respiration, and blood pressure up, the parasympathetic system,
    activated when we meditate, does just the opposite. Muscle tension
    decreases, blood pressure drops, and for some extraordinary
    practitioners, even temperature and basal metabolism rates drop during
    a prolonged meditation. Oxygen needs of the body are reduced when you
    are in a highly relaxed state, and brain waves change from the busy
    beta-waves to the blissful alpha waves.'

    When they pray, Christians also enjoy the added benefit of God's
    blessings for themselves and others on top of the stress reduction that
    occurs with meditation. Such benefits would be expected to help folks
    with complications arising from either diabetes or obesity making this
    discussion on-topic for all NGs receiving this thread.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  2. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mozz said:


    'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one form
    or another.

    Christians call it prayer.

    Is prayer and mediation the same thing? I believe they are similar, but not
    identical.

    (...)

    Quoted message said:

    When they pray, Christians also enjoy the added benefit of God's
    blessings for themselves and others on top of the stress reduction that
    occurs with meditation. Such benefits would be expected to help folks
    with complications arising from either diabetes or obesity making this
    discussion on-topic for all NGs receiving this thread.

    This is a science group. Can you please give proof of this? Not your
    beliefs, but proof. So the Bible is out, unless you can demostrate in a
    scientific way that the Bible in this matter is true.

    Perhaps peer-reviewed articles that show that is God's intervention, rather
    than just belief or meditation that is doing this.

    I understand there are articles that show that people who live thier lives
    according to their beliefs live longer (e.g., Christians going to church,
    giving to charity, etc.). This includes athiests who do whatever athiests
    are supposed to do.

    Jeff

    Quoted message said:

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  3. Jeff said:


    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mozz said:


    'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one form
    or another.

    Christians call it prayer.

    Is prayer and mediation the same thing?

    Prayer is meditation *plus* the potential for divine intervention.

    Quoted message said:

    I believe they are similar, but not
    identical.

    I agree with your belief.

    Quoted message said:

    (...)

    Quoted message said:

    When they pray, Christians also enjoy the added benefit of God's
    blessings for themselves and others on top of the stress reduction that
    occurs with meditation. Such benefits would be expected to help folks
    with complications arising from either diabetes or obesity making this
    discussion on-topic for all NGs receiving this thread.

    This is a science group. Can you please give proof of this?

    Looking ahead, you do not want God's Word on this which for me is
    proof. However, I can provide scientific evidence of this and as is the
    nature of scientific evidence, this will fall short of proof.

    Quoted message said:

    Not your
    beliefs, but proof.

    The Word of God is not my belief but rather is proof.

    Quoted message said:

    So the Bible is out,

    Then you do not want proof.

    Quoted message said:

    unless you can demostrate in a
    scientific way that the Bible in this matter is true.

    The Bible in all matters is true:

    http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

    serves as an illustrative example.

    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps peer-reviewed articles that show that is God's intervention, rather
    than just belief or meditation that is doing this.

    Ok, here's one of many:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1EA25A29

    Quoted message said:

    I understand there are articles that show that people who live thier lives
    according to their beliefs live longer (e.g., Christians going to church,
    giving to charity, etc.). This includes athiests who do whatever athiests
    are supposed to do.

    The above cited article should serve well to enlighten you.

    Quoted message said:

    Jeff

    You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

    Please consider the following to save yourself:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  4. "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeff said:


    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Mozz wrote:
    >
    > 'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    > are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    > has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    > fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one


    form

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > or another.

    Christians call it prayer.

    Is prayer and mediation the same thing?

    Prayer is meditation *plus* the potential for divine intervention.

    Quoted message said:

    I believe they are similar, but not
    identical.

    I agree with your belief.

    Quoted message said:

    (...)

    Quoted message said:

    When they pray, Christians also enjoy the added benefit of God's
    blessings for themselves and others on top of the stress reduction


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    occurs with meditation. Such benefits would be expected to help folks
    with complications arising from either diabetes or obesity making this
    discussion on-topic for all NGs receiving this thread.

    This is a science group. Can you please give proof of this?

    Looking ahead, you do not want God's Word on this which for me is
    proof. However, I can provide scientific evidence of this and as is the
    nature of scientific evidence, this will fall short of proof.

    Quoted message said:

    Not your
    beliefs, but proof.

    The Word of God is not my belief but rather is proof.

    Quoted message said:

    So the Bible is out,

    Then you do not want proof.

    Quoted message said:

    unless you can demostrate in a
    scientific way that the Bible in this matter is true.

    The Bible in all matters is true:

    http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

    serves as an illustrative example.

    how can it be true in all matters? What about the internal conflicts, like
    two different genesis stories?

    I think there are around 50 of these.

    However, you just showed this is not a science discussion. If the Bible is
    true in all matters, then it is a matter for religion, and not science. They
    are different area of thought. Read Stephen J. Gould's book Rock of Ages.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps peer-reviewed articles that show that is God's intervention,


    rather

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than just belief or meditation that is doing this.

    Ok, here's one of many:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1EA25A29

    One of many? How many?

    How about this one?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11761499
    maybe the mayo clinic people sinned more? ;-)
    How about the ones that didn't get published?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I understand there are articles that show that people who live thier


    lives

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    according to their beliefs live longer (e.g., Christians going to


    church,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    giving to charity, etc.). This includes athiests who do whatever


    athiests

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are supposed to do.

    The above cited article should serve well to enlighten you.

    One article. Come on.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jeff

    You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

    Please consider the following to save yourself:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

    No thanks.

    Quoted message said:

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  5. "Jeff" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mozz said:


    'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one form
    or another.

    Christians call it prayer.

    Is prayer and mediation the same thing? I believe they are similar, but not
    identical.

    Herbert Benson and Larry Leshan both have developed meditation
    techniques that are not actually prayer and are not religious.
    Benson's is more scientific/mainstream, and called the "relaxation
    response." I always wondered why things like that were not widely
    practiced, since studies showed years ago they are very effective. I
    stopped simply because of lack of a support network to continue.

    pc

  6. Jeff said:


    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jeff said:


    "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Mozz wrote:
    > >
    > > 'The use of Meditation for healing is not new. Meditative techniques
    > > are the product of diverse cultures and peoples around the world. It
    > > has been rooted in the traditions of the world's great religions. In
    > > fact, practically all religious groups practice meditation in one


    form

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > or another.
    >
    > Christians call it prayer.

    Is prayer and mediation the same thing?

    Prayer is meditation *plus* the potential for divine intervention.

    Quoted message said:

    I believe they are similar, but not
    identical.

    I agree with your belief.

    Quoted message said:

    (...)

    > When they pray, Christians also enjoy the added benefit of God's
    > blessings for themselves and others on top of the stress reduction


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > occurs with meditation. Such benefits would be expected to help folks
    > with complications arising from either diabetes or obesity making this
    > discussion on-topic for all NGs receiving this thread.

    This is a science group. Can you please give proof of this?

    Looking ahead, you do not want God's Word on this which for me is
    proof. However, I can provide scientific evidence of this and as is the
    nature of scientific evidence, this will fall short of proof.

    Quoted message said:

    Not your
    beliefs, but proof.

    The Word of God is not my belief but rather is proof.

    Quoted message said:

    So the Bible is out,

    Then you do not want proof.

    Quoted message said:

    unless you can demostrate in a
    scientific way that the Bible in this matter is true.

    The Bible in all matters is true:

    http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp

    serves as an illustrative example.

    how can it be true in all matters?

    The Bible is God's Word.... and God is the way, the truth, and the life.

    Quoted message said:

    What about the internal conflicts, like
    two different genesis stories?

    What specifically are you referring to?

    Quoted message said:

    I think there are around 50 of these.

    Go ahead a pick one that bothers you and we can certainly discuss it.

    Quoted message said:

    However, you just showed this is not a science discussion. If the Bible is
    true in all matters, then it is a matter for religion, and not science.

    When you asked for proof about the power of prayer, you asked for
    information from the realm of religion.

    Quoted message said:

    They
    are different area of thought. Read Stephen J. Gould's book Rock of Ages.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Perhaps peer-reviewed articles that show that is God's intervention,


    rather

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    than just belief or meditation that is doing this.

    Ok, here's one of many:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?K1EA25A29

    One of many?

    Yes.

    Quoted message said:

    How many?

    Click on the "related articles" link from pubmed for an estimate.

    Quoted message said:

    How about this one?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11761499
    maybe the mayo clinic people sinned more? ;-)

    .... it is not clear they prayed to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

    Quoted message said:

    How about the ones that didn't get published?

    Non-published data is regarded in the same fashion as for other areas of
    scientific inquiry.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I understand there are articles that show that people who live thier


    lives

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    according to their beliefs live longer (e.g., Christians going to


    church,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    giving to charity, etc.). This includes athiests who do whatever


    athiests

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are supposed to do.

    The above cited article should serve well to enlighten you.

    One article. Come on.

    The study is well done and does compel folks to objectively reject the
    null hypothesis.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Jeff

    You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

    Please consider the following to save yourself:

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

    No thanks.

    Your informed choice.

    You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

    Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

    Andrew

    --
    Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
    Board-Certified Cardiologist
    http://www.heartmdphd.com/

    **
    Who is the humblest person in the universe?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

    What is all this about?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

    Is this spam?
    http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

  7. On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:53:00 -0400, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    everyone is aware that you are feeding a known usenet kook and troll
    who wants the fights between newsgroups and the fights between
    christians and non-christians to continue. responding to chung in
    anyway is what he wants.

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