Re: Low carb diets succcccccccccccccccccccccccck!

[email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

X>As for "low carb sucks", this new diet is what enabled me to run
enough to do a half marathon and not br suffering from knee pain.
___

how is a low carb diet directly credited & connected to eliminating knee pain
on your 13.1 mi run?

His tiny, idiotic, ignorant, blood-deprived lil' brain thinks it must
be, so it must.

"Ignoramus4133" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Lanceandrew

Quoted message said:

X>As for "low carb sucks", this new diet is what enabled me to run
enough to do a half marathon and not br suffering from knee pain.
___

how is a low carb diet directly credited & connected to eliminating
knee pain
on your 13.1 mi run?

I had knee pain in the last several years. If I run one day for, say,
half an hour, I had to take a few days off running due to knee
pain. If I ran for an hour, I would be suffering on the next
day. Somehow, inexplicably, my knee pain disappeared after I stopped
eating grains and potatoes, and now I can run to my heart's
content.

God I love real science. And you absolutely sure the injury did not just
simply heal and your eating was totally unrelated? Different shoes?
Exact same path with same camber? Maybe it has nothing to do with what
you didn't eat but some vitamin, mineral, etc that was indirectly added.
We could go on and on with your "coincidence." Placebo is strong for
some people.

-DF

Ignoramus4133 said:

Somehow, inexplicably, my knee pain disappeared after I stopped
eating grains and potatoes, and now I can run to my heart's
content.

post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

From The Skeptic's Dictionary, http://skepdic.com/posthoc.html :

"The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this)
fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one
thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second
event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and
erroneous beliefs.

Many events follow sequential patterns without being causally related.
For example, you have a cold, so you drink fluids and two weeks later
your cold goes away. You have a headache so you stand on your head and
six hours later your headache goes away. You put acne medication on a
pimple and three weeks later the pimple goes away. You perform some
task exceptionally well after forgetting to bathe, so the next time
you have to perform the same task you don't bathe. A solar eclipse
occurs so you beat your drums to make the gods spit back the sun. The
sun returns, proving to you the efficacy of your action."

Or,

A runners knee pain goes away after he stops eating grains and
potatoes ...

Mike Tennent
"IronPenguin"

Leafing through rec.running, I read Mike Tennent's message of 13 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

From The Skeptic's Dictionary, http://skepdic.com/posthoc.html :

"The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this)
fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one
thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the second
event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and
erroneous beliefs.

I had a bowl of chili from Wendy's. 9 months later my wife gave birth to
our first baby. So you're saying it could have been something else?

Phil M.

--
"What counts in battle is what you do once the pain sets in." -John Short,
South African coach.

Ignoramus19594 said:

It is quite possible that it is a mere coincidence. To check this
would be easy, resume eating grains and see if the knee pain comes
back.

That wouldn't necessarily show much. The problem is that your model is
unscientific and simple-minded. All it would show is that one of the many
factors that you changed (including placebo effects) was associated with
joint pain.

Quoted message said:

- I had knee pain for years
- Weight loss helped with knee pain, but has not healed it
- Adoption of a no grain diet has not changed my weight by a single
pound
- Knee pain is completely gone now, I have NO knee pain
- I noticed lack of it one month into my new diet with great surprise.
This excludes placebo effect.

No it doesn't.

What would demonstrate a causal relationship would be peer-reviewed studies
that are based on a scientifically motivated model. If what you're saying about
carbs and joint pain is true, the Kenyans would all be DNFing in their
marathons, not winning them (those guys basically live on corn).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Phil M. said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Mike Tennent's message of 13 Oct 2004:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

From The Skeptic's Dictionary, http://skepdic.com/posthoc.html :

....

Quoted message said:

I had a bowl of chili from Wendy's. 9 months later my wife gave birth to
our first baby. So you're saying it could have been something else?

Quoted message said:

Phil M.

Imagine if you had had two bowls.

jobs

"Phil M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Leafing through rec.running, I read Mike Tennent's message of 13 Oct
2004:

Quoted message said:

post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

From The Skeptic's Dictionary, http://skepdic.com/posthoc.html :

"The post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this therefore because of this)
fallacy is based upon the mistaken notion that simply because one
thing happens after another, the first event was a cause of the
second
event. Post hoc reasoning is the basis for many superstitions and
erroneous beliefs.

I had a bowl of chili from Wendy's. 9 months later my wife gave birth
to
our first baby. So you're saying it could have been something else?

Without a doubt, chili is a powerful aphrodisiac. 🙂

DeSade

"Ignoramus19594" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Freese

Quoted message said:

God I love real science. And you absolutely sure the injury did not
just
simply heal and your eating was totally unrelated? Different shoes?
Exact same path with same camber? Maybe it has nothing to do with
what
you didn't eat but some vitamin, mineral, etc that was indirectly
added.
We could go on and on with your "coincidence." Placebo is strong for
some people.

It could be a coincidence, yes. It is hard to say. The scientifically
valid thing to do would be to go back to my old diet and see if knee
pain reappears.

No, the smart scientific thing was to see a doctor not take out the ouji
board. I Painted this morning with my left hand and went for run and
had a terrible case of gas. Now I don't paint with my left hand before I
run. It couldn't be the chili the night before because we have proven
through Phil that Chili is a love potion not a bubble maker.

-DF

Ignoramus19594 said:

In article said:

"Ignoramus19594" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Freese
wrote:

>God I love real science. And you absolutely sure the injury did not
>just
>simply heal and your eating was totally unrelated? Different shoes?
>Exact same path with same camber? Maybe it has nothing to do with
>what
>you didn't eat but some vitamin, mineral, etc that was indirectly
>added.
>We could go on and on with your "coincidence." Placebo is strong for
>some people.

It could be a coincidence, yes. It is hard to say. The scientifically
valid thing to do would be to go back to my old diet and see if knee
pain reappears.

No, the smart scientific thing was to see a doctor not take out the ouji
board.

I did see a doctor, in Dec 2003, he was not helpful. He just said
something like "be careful exercising and do not run too
much". Obviously, not every problem can be helped, so I am not upset
at the doctor for that, just reporting the fact.

Is your doctor a runner? According to Tim Noakes from "Lore of Running"
your doctor should be a runner.

He also points out that a runner should do whatever he/she can do to
find out what the problem is and try to resolve that problem. If the
runner tries this and fails then he/she should go see the doctor.

So, it seems to me that you have done just fine. If it works for you go
with it. Runners can get quite dogmatic at times, imo.

Cut the [censored] Donnie.

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Ignoramus19594 said:

It is quite possible that it is a mere coincidence. To check this
would be easy, resume eating grains and see if the knee pain comes
back.

That wouldn't necessarily show much. The problem is that your model is
unscientific and simple-minded. All it would show is that one of the many
factors that you changed (including placebo effects) was associated with
joint pain.

Quoted message said:

- I had knee pain for years
- Weight loss helped with knee pain, but has not healed it
- Adoption of a no grain diet has not changed my weight by a single
pound
- Knee pain is completely gone now, I have NO knee pain
- I noticed lack of it one month into my new diet with great surprise.
This excludes placebo effect.

No it doesn't.

What would demonstrate a causal relationship would be peer-reviewed studies
that are based on a scientifically motivated model. If what you're saying about
carbs and joint pain is true, the Kenyans would all be DNFing in their
marathons, not winning them (those guys basically live on corn).

Cheers,