Re: Ketosis strips

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"Here's an explanation of the above taken from another ng post by Lyle.

Quoted message said:

Gee, coming from a real medical authority like that, why would anyone
have doubts that 100g of carb is the magical number for ketosis in
everyone, regardless of weight, age, sex, etc.?

As I said, the book is loaded with good peer reviewed citations backing
up the assertions. Doesn't matter if the author is a total jerk,
because anyone whose brain is using its ration of glucose can look it up.

Or continue to spread uninformed opinions as fact.

Your choice.

Susan

"As I said, the book is loaded with good peer reviewed citations
backing
up the assertions. Doesn't matter if the author is a total jerk,
because anyone whose brain is using its ration of glucose can look it
up.

Or continue to spread uninformed opinions as fact."

Your choice.

Susan

Well since you claim Lyle McDonald is the expert who says 100g of carbs
is the one size fits all ketosis limit, and I'm the one that supposed
to be spreading uninformed opinions, I found this little gem for you:

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets Part 2
Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996

----------------------------

Quoted message said:

From a dietary standpoint, to establish and maintain ketosis, two

criteria
must be met:
1. Carbohydrate intake must be kept below 30 grams. However, there is
some
indivduality in this number. Some individuals can handle more
carbohydrates while others may have difficulty establishing ketosis at
this
level. If you can't get into ketosis and everything else is in place,
try
cutting your carb intake to 20 grams or less. Also, many individuals
choose
to consume as few carbs as possible (zero) until ketosis is fully
established and then increase carbs slightly (celery and cucumber are
both
good and add some nice texture to an otherwise bland diet) at that
point."

That certainly makes a lot more sense to me, than some magical 100g
number, as claimed by you.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

Well since you claim Lyle McDonald is the expert who says 100g of carbs
is the one size fits all ketosis limit, and I'm the one that supposed
to be spreading uninformed opinions, I found this little gem for you:

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets Part 2
Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996

----------------------------

Quoted message said:

From a dietary standpoint, to establish and maintain ketosis, two

criteria
must be met:
1. Carbohydrate intake must be kept below 30 grams. However, there is
some
indivduality in this number. Some individuals can handle more
carbohydrates while others may have difficulty establishing ketosis at
this
level. If you can't get into ketosis and everything else is in place,
try
cutting your carb intake to 20 grams or less. Also, many individuals
choose
to consume as few carbs as possible (zero) until ketosis is fully
established and then increase carbs slightly (celery and cucumber are
both
good and add some nice texture to an otherwise bland diet) at that
point."

That certainly makes a lot more sense to me, than some magical 100g
number, as claimed by you.

You completely misread and cherry picked that. He was talking about
methods of quickly, predictably inducing ketosis, for the purposes of
CKD for bodybuilding, probably, not levels of maintaining ketosis.

You'd have to actually read a book or a journal article. It's very hard
to do a search on the 100grm level without finding citations, though
you've pretty scrupulously avoided doing so.

Susan

"You completely misread and cherry picked that. He was talking about
methods of quickly, predictably inducing ketosis, for the purposes of
CKD for bodybuilding, probably, not levels of maintaining ketosis."

Yeah, it figures you'd say that. And that's really special coming from
someone who accused me of not having anything to back my claim other
than opinion. And then I cite a refernce right from Lyle McDonald, the
very guy you claimed said 100g is the magic number, and what he says
here is quite different. And now you say it's cherry picked. And not
once have you cited a single reference by anyone showing 100g as a
magic number, despit your claims that it's easy to do. I've been on
this group for years, and today is the first time I've ever seen 100g
being discussed as the one size fits all number you have to be below to
be in ketosis.

"I provided it multiple times. Clearly you're stuck saying this
untruth
because you were wrong, you were insulting about it and you're not
enough of a man to admit it. "

Yes, sure you did. Now here's an insult for you. Now you're a liar.
Here's the link you provided:

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=stryer.section.2265

This is an article on biochemistry of the brain. It says ZIPPO about
100g being the magic required level of daily carbs for ketosis for
everyone. And this after telling us "It's all over the web! " LOL

Now, just for context here's McDonald again who you claim came up with
the 100g carb=ketosis number:

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets Part 2
Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996

----------------------------

Quoted message said:

From a dietary standpoint, to establish and maintain ketosis, two

criteria
must be met:

1. Carbohydrate intake must be kept below 30 grams. However, there is
some
indivduality in this number. Some individuals can handle more
carbohydrates while others may have difficulty establishing ketosis at
this
level. If you can't get into ketosis and everything else is in place,
try
cutting your carb intake to 20 grams or less. Also, many individuals
choose
to consume as few carbs as possible (zero) until ketosis is fully
established and then increase carbs slightly (celery and cucumber are
both
good and add some nice texture to an otherwise bland diet) at that
point."

See, that's a reference. We know who said it, when, and can see it in
there own words. Not, "I read it in his book. It's all over the
internet."

"Tell me how the glucose requirement of the brain has nothing to do
with how much
your body uses up before it relies on ketones? "

I never said it has nothing to do with it. Of course, the brain being
ONE of the organs of the body, has something to do with it. Last time
I checked, their was considerably more to metabolism of the whole human
body than the brain. The body doesn't just fuel the brain. Can you be
that stupid?

As for who is ignorant, I think everyone can judge for themselves.

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

"I provided it multiple times. Clearly you're stuck saying this
untruth
because you were wrong, you were insulting about it and you're not
enough of a man to admit it. "

Yes, sure you did. Now here's an insult for you. Now you're a liar.
Here's the link you provided:

"http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=stryer.section.2265

This is an article on biochemistry of the brain. It says ZIPPO about
100g being the magic required level of daily carbs for ketosis for
everyone. And this after telling us "It's all over the web! " LOL

Now, just for context here's McDonald again who you claim came up with
the 100g carb=ketosis number:

Cyclical Ketogenic Diets Part 2
Copyright Lyle McDonald 1996

----------------------------

Quoted message said:

From a dietary standpoint, to establish and maintain ketosis, two

criteria
must be met:

1. Carbohydrate intake must be kept below 30 grams. However, there is
some
indivduality in this number. Some individuals can handle more
carbohydrates while others may have difficulty establishing ketosis at
this
level. If you can't get into ketosis and everything else is in place,
try
cutting your carb intake to 20 grams or less. Also, many individuals
choose
to consume as few carbs as possible (zero) until ketosis is fully
established and then increase carbs slightly (celery and cucumber are
both
good and add some nice texture to an otherwise bland diet) at that
point."

See, that's a reference. We know who said it, when, and can see it in
there own words. Not, "I read it in his book. It's all over the
internet."

"Tell me how the glucose requirement of the brain has nothing to do
with how much
your body uses up before it relies on ketones? "

I never said it has nothing to do with it. Of course, the brain being
ONE of the organs of the body, has something to do with it. Last time
I checked, their was considerably more to metabolism of the whole human
body than the brain. The body doesn't just fuel the brain. Can you be
that stupid?

As for who is ignorant, I think everyone can judge for themselves.

Yes, so do I. Which is why there's no need for me to provide any more
info that you're unable to read or comprehend.

Susan

Susan said:

In case you don't want to do the math again, if you eat what becomes

100

Quoted message said:

grams of glucose, and your brain uses it all, then you're in ketosis.

....

Quoted message said:

You just won't be able to measure it in your urine at these levels.

I understand that you are using the formal definition of
ketosis and that by the formal definition Dr Atkins got
it wrong. He should have used ketonurea. Shrug. Low
carbers use the word ketosis anyways.

Quoted message said:

Which brings me back to why ketostix are an unnecessary and useless
expense unless you're a type 1 diabetic.

This misses the point that by the formal defintions,
what At-kids are interested in is ketonurea.

I have a differing view of the sticks: They are training
wheels. Learn to tell what the ketones smell/taste like
when they have grown faint, and the sticks are no longer
needed to detect one's own "ketonurea" which is called
ketosis by At-kids.

x-no-archive: yes

Doug Freyburger said:

This misses the point that by the formal defintions,
what At-kids are interested in is ketonurea.

I think they're most interested in weight loss, which happens in ketosis
even when it's no measurable in the urine.

Quoted message said:

I have a differing view of the sticks: They are training
wheels. Learn to tell what the ketones smell/taste like
when they have grown faint, and the sticks are no longer
needed to detect one's own "ketonurea" which is called
ketosis by At-kids.

I gained weight on Atkins while my urine was loaded with ketones.

Susan