Re: just for fun: the Hadd test

Donovan Rebbechi said:

I thought it might before I did the test, but I found it stabilised awfully
quickly, e.g. after 200m or so. I did these continuously, no break in between,

ok, because he also advises to stop for 90secs after each 2400m!

Quoted message said:

I didn't record average heart rate. The heart rate I recorded was what it
settled on after about 200m. After the first 200m, I have a pretty good idea
how fast I need to run, so maybe the first 200 is off by a couple of seconds
but the rest is OK.

If you didn't stop between the different sections, I can indeed
understand that your HR did stabilize itself in about 200m!

Quoted message said:

Mostly time -- it's 2.5 miles to and from the track, and I already had to do 5
miles to finish the protocol with only 4 laps.

yes I can understand this point!

Quoted message said:

I ran a marathon, but it was in warm conditions, and I was in better shape. So
not sure what these results would say about that. I've never done the test
while in good shape.

but was your AVG HR at about 88% HRM?

Quoted message said:

Sounds good. Post the data so we can look at it -- I'm curious if the model
will fit as well with your data as it did with mine, and if there's any sort
of plateau in heart rate (as Steve Common suggested)

I'll try it next week, because as you say, it's a pretty long session,
and I wouldn't want it to interfere with my training for this upcoming
sunday's 10k

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

marko said:

Donovan Rebbechi said:

I thought it might before I did the test, but I found it stabilised awfully
quickly, e.g. after 200m or so. I did these continuously, no break in between,

ok, because he also advises to stop for 90secs after each 2400m!

yeah, not sure if there's a good reason for that. The reason Hadd uses the break
is because it's a lactate testing protocol -- usually he draws blood. He
probably wanted "Joe" to use exactly that protocol because he was familiar with
it.

The only thing I'd be worried about by omitting the stops is cardiac drift
(though also making the protocol shorter would help). In my case at least,
that just didn't happen. Like "Joe", I got a perfect line. Should be noted that
the "Joe" data also fits a line very well, about the same goodness of fit as my
own data.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I ran a marathon, but it was in warm conditions, and I was in better shape. So
not sure what these results would say about that. I've never done the test
while in good shape.

but was your AVG HR at about 88% HRM?

Not sure what you're asking. My max is about 195.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

marko said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

.............

Quoted message said:

but was your AVG HR at about 88% HRM?

Not sure what you're asking. My max is about 195.

Butting in here, I think he was asking because in the training example, Hadd
worked backwards from the knowledge that Joe's marathon HR should be 174-176
for his max HR of 193. Based on the track test Hadd saw that Joe's current
level at 170 (non-race equivalent of the race-drifted 175) was too slow and
Joe was showing signs of being over LT at that effort level. Hadd then set
Joe's long-tempo training pace at 160.

-Tony

Tony said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

marko said:

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

.............

Quoted message said:

but was your AVG HR at about 88% HRM?

Not sure what you're asking. My max is about 195.

Butting in here, I think he was asking because in the training example, Hadd
worked backwards from the knowledge that Joe's marathon HR should be 174-176
for his max HR of 193.

I see. My HR 173 pace was 6:24/mile in the test. There is no way I'm in
6:24/mile marathon shape right now. Another issue with marathon pace is that
you've got to make some allowances for the course and conditions. I did the
Hadd test on a track in cool conditions, but if I were to do the same test
running over a marathon test in warm weather, I'd be slower. I did my 18 mile
run yesterday in very warm conditions (just over 80). I stayed arund 150 for
the first 12 miles, and I ran those at about 8:30/mile (same as my 140 pace on
track test). The last 6 I ran at about 8:00, and HR was often in the low 170s.
I take that as a sign I'd be pretty damn slow in a marathon under those
conditions right now.

It will be interesting to see how the test readings change as I get in better
shape though. Once I can get through long runs at around 7:30/mile in warm
conditions (that's the sort of shape I was in during last years summer
training), we'll see what the sub max says.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Tony said:

Butting in here, I think he was asking because in the training example, Hadd
worked backwards from the knowledge that Joe's marathon HR should be 174-176
for his max HR of 193.

thank you tony, that was indeed my point ;-)

Quoted message said:

I see. My HR 173 pace was 6:24/mile in the test. There is no way I'm in
6:24/mile marathon shape right now. Another issue with marathon pace is that

I've got an inkling that if I run the test, I would also get a pace too
fast to be sustained in a marathon @ 88% HRmax. (which is just the
opposite of what Joe got!)
This would only show, I suppose, that with my current 10k training with
30miles weeks, I'm simply not ready to run distances over a HM, and that
I need to work on my LT...

Quoted message said:

you've got to make some allowances for the course and conditions. I did the
Hadd test on a track in cool conditions, but if I were to do the same test
running over a marathon test in warm weather, I'd be slower. I did my 18 mile
run yesterday in very warm conditions (just over 80). I stayed arund 150 for
the first 12 miles, and I ran those at about 8:30/mile (same as my 140 pace on
track test). The last 6 I ran at about 8:00, and HR was often in the low 170s.
I take that as a sign I'd be pretty damn slow in a marathon under those
conditions right now.

anyone would be I guess!

Quoted message said:

It will be interesting to see how the test readings change as I get in better
shape though. Once I can get through long runs at around 7:30/mile in warm
conditions (that's the sort of shape I was in during last years summer
training), we'll see what the sub max says.

indeed, I'll try to do the same!
m

Quoted message said:

Cheers,