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Re: Imperative / iron stores / diabetes

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01 / Original postRe: Imperative / iron stores / diabetesEmail address hidden · 26 Jun 2005 02 / This pagePosts 1–9Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #9Pizza Girl. · 6 Jul 2005

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
26 June 2005
Last activity
6 July 2005
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  1. Original post
    Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #1

    Here is the bottom line on iron and the risk of diabetes:

    Dietary iron intake and blood donations in relation to risk of type 2
    diabetes
    in men: a prospective cohort study

    http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/1/70

    "Conclusions: Heme-iron intake from red meat sources is positively
    associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes. Total iron intake,
    heme-iron intake from non-red meat sources, and blood^ donations are
    not related to the risk of type 2 diabetes."

    Giving blood makes no difference in risk of diabetes, eating poultry and
    fish and other such animal food sources doesn't increase risk, the total
    amount of iron consumed doesn't increase risk either. Because it is only
    red meat that shows some association and because iron can not be shown to
    be a cause of diabetes, it is just as likely that the saturated fat in red
    meat is more of an important risk for getting diabetes. Sorry your theory
    doesn't work out like you wanted to make it do. Invent all the ideas you
    want, when we look at real people in the real world can the answer be
    found and iron is not the cause of diabetes. Simple singel sources rarely
    are the answer in such complex disorders as diabetes, it may play a part,
    but it is not the reason diabetes starts..

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  2. Juhana Harju
    Archived post
    #2

    [email hidden] wrote:
    :: Here is the bottom line on iron and the risk of diabetes:
    ::
    :: Dietary iron intake and blood donations in relation to risk of type 2
    :: diabetes
    :: in men: a prospective cohort study
    ::
    :: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/1/70
    ::
    :: "Conclusions: Heme-iron intake from red meat sources is positively
    :: associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes. Total iron intake,
    :: heme-iron intake from non-red meat sources, and blood^ donations
    :: are not related to the risk of type 2 diabetes."
    ::
    :: Giving blood makes no difference in risk of diabetes, eating poultry
    :: and fish and other such animal food sources doesn't increase risk,
    :: the total amount of iron consumed doesn't increase risk either.
    :: Because it is only red meat that shows some association and because
    :: iron can not be shown to be a cause of diabetes, it is just as
    :: likely that the saturated fat in red meat is more of an important
    :: risk for getting diabetes. Sorry your theory doesn't work out like
    :: you wanted to make it do. Invent all the ideas you want, when we
    :: look at real people in the real world can the answer be found and
    :: iron is not the cause of diabetes. Simple singel sources rarely are
    :: the answer in such complex disorders as diabetes, it may play a
    :: part, but it is not the reason diabetes starts..

    Poultry and fish on average have much lower levels of heme iron than red
    meat. I think that Tom is right here.

    --
    Juhana

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  3. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #3

    So .. red meat somehow comes into the .. picture .. ?

    The whole .. thread has to do with .. iron .. stores .. S-T-O-R-E-S ..

    That is the .. buildup .. B-U-I-L-D-U-P .. of .. iron ..

    Meat iron tends to buildup .. B-U-I-L-D-U-P .. in the body ..

    Plant iron .. does NOT .. buildup .. B-U-I-L-D-U-P .. in the body ..

    Logic says .. fish iron / chicken iron / pork iron / dog iron / cat
    iron / snake iron .. will ALL .. buildup .. B-U-I-L-D-U-P .. in the
    body ..

    Waffle all you want .. blood iron tends to buildup.. B-U-I-L-D-U-P ..
    in the body ..

    COMPOUNDED by the FACT .. blood iron binds TO all other iron and causes
    it TOO .. to be absorbed at this high rate which causes it TOO to be
    ... what .. ? .. buildup.. B-U-I-L-D-U-P .. in the body ..?

    Yes ..

    You are .. catching .. on ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

    Report
  4. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #4

    The study said total iron did not indicate a risk factor for diabetes, it
    said eating fish and poultry is not a risk factor, it said bloodletting
    makes no difference in risk. Each of those thre items undercuts your iron
    causes all diseases idea and those three excludes it's validity, any one
    of them would do it, here we have three in just one article; it doesn't
    get any better or clearer then that scientifically. In science we don't
    prove an idea, we fail to disprove it. In this one article your entire
    idea is disproven so we can now put it in some dusty corner with all the
    other curious ideas people have invented but have been proven wrong that
    litter the history of science.

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  5. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #5

    The
    iron from the meat we eat builds to HIGHER .. levels ..than the iron
    from
    plants can achieve and this causes a HIGHER than .. normal .. level of
    ... iron .. in the body which leads to
    disease from toxic levels of iron .

    Get .. the .. drift .. yet .. ?

    MEAT eating .. that would include EVERYCREATUREWALKINGFLYINGCRAWLING ..
    leads to elevated iron levels ..

    Elevated BEING .. higher than .. vegetarians ..

    Pretty simple .. stuff ..

    STILL .. too hard .. for some ..

    Heh .. heh ..

    <<snip>>
    Our results demonstrate that lacto-ovo vegetarians are more
    insulin sensitive and have lower Fe stores than meat-eaters. In
    addition, it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters
    is
    amenable to improvement by reducing body Fe.
    <<snip>>

    Br J Nutr 2001 Oct;86(4):515-9

    Low iron status and enhanced insulin sensitivity in lacto-ovo
    vegetarians.

    Hua NW, Stoohs RA, Facchini FS

    Department of Medicine, Division of Nephrology, San Francisco
    General
    Hospital, San Francisco, CA, USA.

    [Medline record in process]

    The efficacy of insulin in stimulating whole-body glucose disposal
    (insulin sensitivity) was quantified using direct methodology in
    thirty lacto-ovo vegetarians and in thirty meat-eaters. All subjects

    were adult, lean (BMI <23 kg/m2), healthy and glucose tolerant.
    Lacto-ovo vegetarians were more insulin sensitive than meat-eaters,
    with a steady-state plasma glucose (mmol/l) of 4.1 (95 % CI 3.5,
    5.0)
    v. 6.9 (95 % CI 5.2, 7.5; respectively. In addition, lacto-ovo
    vegetarians had lower body Fe stores, as indicated by a serum
    ferritin
    concentration (mg/l) of 35 (95 % CI 21, 49) compared with 72 (95 %
    CI
    45, 100) for meat-eaters To test whether or not Fe status might
    modulate insulin sensitivity, body Fe was lowered by phlebotomy in
    six
    male meat-eaters to levels similar to that seen in vegetarians, with
    a
    resultant approximately 40 % enhancement of insulin-mediated glucose

    disposal Our results demonstrate that lacto-ovo vegetarians are more

    insulin sensitive and have lower Fe stores than meat-eaters. In
    addition, it seems that reduced insulin sensitivity in meat-eaters
    is
    amenable to improvement by reducing body Fe. The latter finding is
    in
    agreement with results from animal studies where, no matter how
    induced, Fe depletion consistently enhanced glucose disposal.

    PMID: 11591239, UI: 21475355

    ______________________________­______________________________­_____

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

    Report
  6. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #6

    The science says this about iron and risk of diabetes, total iron doesn't
    increase risk, iron from fish and poultry and simil doesn't either, nor
    does the rate of bloodletting change risk. Those three, only one is
    required, undermine fataly the iron causes all disease idea. The idea
    will remain dead until evidence to the contrary can be shown, that is how
    real science works, not the pick and choose to spin a favorite idea as
    science game. No number of posts showing too much iron is associated with
    some disorders will do, a post to the contrary must show that the three
    items above are incorrect, all of them must be shown as any of the three
    makes the idea dead.

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  7. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #7

    Actually science DOES show .. iron levels to be linked to diabetes ..

    What part of the medical studies I've posted which say .. "iron levels
    CLEARLY associated with diabetes .. " .. don't .. you understand ..?

    Pretty much spells it out ..

    Researchers .. say .. it ..

    Just because YOU say it doesn't .. makes it somehow ..so .. ?

    Heh .. heh ..

    Fk .. off ..

    You're just a stupid .. fk ..

    No .. reason .. to BE .. in .. medical newsgroups .. except that you
    are .. sick ..

    So .. stick with being .. sick ..

    That is about ALL you are .. good .. at ..

    A .. drain .. on health care .. services ..

    Heh . heh ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

    Report
  8. Email address hidden
    Archived post
    #8

    No .. I don't think .. I .. will ..

    Maybe you should just .. STFU ..

    See the thread ..?

    It has something to do with iron and diabetes ..?

    I'll spell it for you .. i-r-o-n .. d-i-a-b-e-t-e-s ..

    Say something about .. iron OR .. diabetes ..

    OR .. stfu ..

    Too hard for ya .. ?

    Must .. be ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking..

    Report
  9. Pizza Girl.
    Archived post
    #9

    SUFO then

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    No .. I don't think .. I .. will ..

    Maybe you should just .. STFU ..

    See the thread ..?

    It has something to do with iron and diabetes ..?

    I'll spell it for you .. i-r-o-n .. d-i-a-b-e-t-e-s ..

    Say something about .. iron OR .. diabetes ..

    OR .. stfu ..

    Too hard for ya .. ?

    Must .. be ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking..

    Report

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