General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Imperative / iron stores / diabetes

Started by Juhana Harju · · Last activity · 9 posts · 347 views

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
25 June 2005
Last activity
5 July 2005
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Juhana Harju
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  1. [email hidden] wrote:
    : <<snip>>
    : Stored iron seems to impact negatively on insulin action even in
    : healthy people, and not just in classic pathologic conditions
    : associated with iron overload (hemochromatosis and hemosiderosis)
    : <<snip>>
    :
    : Clin Chem. 2005 Jul;51(7):1201-5. Links
    :
    :
    : Iron stores, blood donation, and insulin sensitivity and secretion.
    :
    : Fernandez-Real JM, Lopez-Bermejo A, Ricart W.
    : [...]
    : CONCLUSIONS: Blood donation is simultaneously
    : associated with increased insulin sensitivity and decreased iron
    : stores. Stored iron seems to impact negatively on insulin action even
    : in healthy people, and not just in classic pathologic conditions
    : associated with iron overload (hemochromatosis and hemosiderosis).
    : According to these observations, it is imperative that a definition of
    : excessive iron stores in healthy people be formulated.
    :
    : PMID: 15976100 [PubMed - in process]
    :

    : Tom

    So, Tom, what is your opionion about the ideal ferritin levels?

    --
    Juhana

  2. Well according to Dr. Sullivan .. one needs not have ANY ferritin .. at
    ... all ..

    It is a .. STORAGE .. site .. and the iron there is not being used ..

    Therefore .. it is .. NOT .. essential ..

    If one has enough red blood cells .. THAT .. is .. 'just' .. enough ..
    iron ..

    Now WHAT .. is .. THE .. 'enough' .. in .. red blood cells .. though ..

    THAT .. may be the problem ..

    Is a lack of vitamin E .. therefore disallowing the body to actually
    CARRY .. oxygen .. that ALSO .. comes into the scenario ..

    The bodies red blood cells are capable of carrying three times more
    oxygen than they NORMALLY do .. but .. when one lacks vitamin E the red
    blood cell cannot carry this oxygen to those elevated amounts and
    therefore the NUMBER of red blood cells don't really count .. just the
    ABILITY to carry oxygen ..

    Much like the sickle cell patients .. when .. bloodlet DOWN TO the
    'dangerous' .. levels of red blood cell count .. they are .. cured ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.­com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/iron­justice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/iron­justice/deadpeoplewalking

  3. According to this .. ferritin down to five doesn't seem to be .. bad ..
    it actually seems to be .. good .. in kids .. anyhow ..

    <<snip>>
    ferritin <20 micro g/L at 4 mo, <9 micro g/L at 6 mo and <5 micro g/L
    <<snip>>

    Inadequate Definition Of Iron Deficiency In Infancy A DGReview of :"The
    diagnostic criteria for iron deficiency in infants should be
    reevaluated."
    Nutrition
    12/20/2002
    By Robert Short

    The current definitions for iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia
    in infants are inadequate and need evaluation.

    A study of 263 exclusively breast-fed infants in Honduras and Sweden
    who were randomly assigned to receive iron supplementation or placebo
    has led researchers in Sweden and the United States to this conclusion.

    Blood samples were taken from the children at age 4, 6 and 9 months.
    Reference ranges were determined using three different approaches for
    defining iron-replete infants. The researchers evaluated various
    variables for predicting the haemoglobin response to iron.

    Dr M Domellof, from the Department of Clinical Sciences, Pediatrics,
    Umea University, Umea, Sweden, said, "The haemoglobin response to iron
    was not a useful definition of iron deficiency anaemia at 4 months of
    age. Haemoglobin, mean cell volume, and zinc protoporphyrin at 6 months
    as well as growth variables predicted the haemoglobin response at 6-9
    months, but ferritin and soluble transferrin receptors at 6 months did
    not."

    The investigators concluded that there was a need for a re-evaluation
    of the definitions of iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia.

    They had set out to establish the cut-off values for the different
    variables. They found the two standard deviation cut-off values in
    iron-replete infants to be as follows: haemoglobin <105 g/L at 4-6
    months and <100 g/L at 9 months; zinc protoporphyrin >75 micro mol/mol
    haem at 4.6 months and >90 micro mol/mol haem at 9 months; ferritin <20
    micro g/L at 4 mo, <9 micro g/L at 6 mo and <5 micro g/L at 9 mo; and
    soluble transferrin receptors >11 mg/L at 4-9 months.

    Nutrition
    "The diagnostic criteria for iron deficiency in infants should be
    reevaluated."

    : Am J Clin Nutr 2002 Oct;76(4):858-64 Related Articles, Links

    Iron status of infants fed low-iron formula: no effect of added bovine
    lactoferrin or nucleotides.

    Hernell O, Lonnerdal B.

    Department of Clinical Sciences, Pediatrics, Umea University, Sweden
    (OH), and the Department of Nutrition, University of California, Davis
    (BL).

    BACKGROUND: The appropriate level of iron fortification in infant
    formula remains undetermined. OBJECTIVES: We compared hematologic
    indexes and iron-status indicators in infants who were either
    breast-fed or fed formula with concentrations of 2 or 4 mg Fe/L and
    evaluated the effects of providing part of the iron as bovine
    lactoferrin and of adding nucleotides. DESIGN: Healthy term infants
    were exclusively breast-fed (n = 16) or fed formula (n = 10-12) from
    age 4 +/- 2 wk to 6 mo. Anthropometric measures were taken monthly, and
    blood samples were taken at 1, 4, and 6 mo. Hematologic indexes;
    indicators of iron, zinc, and copper status; and erythrocyte fatty
    acids were assessed. RESULTS: No significant differences in hematology
    or iron status were observed between groups at 4 and 6 mo of age.
    Although 34% of all infants had a hemoglobin concentration <110 g/L at
    6 mo, the absence of iron deficiency or defective erythropoiesis
    suggests that this hemoglobin cutoff is too high for this age group.
    Neither the source or the concentration of iron in formula nor
    fortification with nucleotides had any significant effect on serum zinc
    or copper, and nucleotide fortification did not affect erythrocyte
    fatty acids. CONCLUSIONS: A concentration of 1.6 mg Fe/L formula meets
    the iron requirement of healthy term infants aged
    PMID: 12324301 [PubMed - in process]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.­com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/iron­justice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/iron­justice/deadpeoplewalking

  4. [email hidden] wrote:
    : Well according to Dr. Sullivan .. one needs not have ANY ferritin ..
    : at .. all ..
    :
    : It is a .. STORAGE .. site .. and the iron there is not being used ..
    :
    : Therefore .. it is .. NOT .. essential ..
    :
    : If one has enough red blood cells .. THAT .. is .. 'just' .. enough ..
    : iron ..
    :
    : Now WHAT .. is .. THE .. 'enough' .. in .. red blood cells .. though
    : ..
    :
    : THAT .. may be the problem ..
    :
    : Is a lack of vitamin E .. therefore disallowing the body to actually
    : CARRY .. oxygen .. that ALSO .. comes into the scenario ..
    :
    : The bodies red blood cells are capable of carrying three times more
    : oxygen than they NORMALLY do .. but .. when one lacks vitamin E the
    : red blood cell cannot carry this oxygen to those elevated amounts and
    : therefore the NUMBER of red blood cells don't really count .. just the
    : ABILITY to carry oxygen ..
    :
    : Much like the sickle cell patients .. when .. bloodlet DOWN TO the
    : 'dangerous' .. levels of red blood cell count .. they are .. cured ..
    :
    : Who loves ya.
    : Tom

    Thanks for reply. I have understood that this is actually often the case in
    vegetarians: even if they have normal haemoglobin levels their ferritin
    levels are very low. Still they seem to manage pretty well. Obviously they
    don't need any bloodletting to reduce ferritin levels.

    --
    Juhana

  5. "Poultry and fish on average have much lower levels of heme iron than red
    meat. I think that Tom is right here."

    Ah, but you must understand tom's idea about iron being the cause of all
    diseases and eating meat. Here is the short version, God said don't eat
    meat, humans did and were punished by the iron in meat causing all
    diseases, the more meat eaten the more the punishment, use bloodletting to
    lower risk of getting diseases. So let's look at the original study.
    Bloodletting doesn't affect risk of diabetes, total iron doesn't raise
    risk, eating non red meat doesn't raise risk. There is a total
    undermining of his total idea. Now red meat does raise risk, this has
    been hsown in other studies too without reference to iron content but
    related to saturated fats which are known to raise risk of diabetes. Your
    observation is correct, it doesn't save tom's ideas but only adds a nail
    in the coffin.

  6. When and who's God said that?

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Poultry and fish on average have much lower levels of heme iron than red
    meat. I think that Tom is right here."

    Ah, but you must understand tom's idea about iron being the cause of all
    diseases and eating meat. Here is the short version, God said don't eat
    meat, humans did and were punished by the iron in meat causing all
    diseases, the more meat eaten the more the punishment, use bloodletting to
    lower risk of getting diseases. So let's look at the original study.
    Bloodletting doesn't affect risk of diabetes, total iron doesn't raise
    risk, eating non red meat doesn't raise risk. There is a total
    undermining of his total idea. Now red meat does raise risk, this has
    been hsown in other studies too without reference to iron content but
    related to saturated fats which are known to raise risk of diabetes. Your
    observation is correct, it doesn't save tom's ideas but only adds a nail
    in the coffin.

  7. Keep in mind here .. this .. code breaking .. the SAME codebreaking ..
    found .. bloodletting .. and it has now been shown .. bloodletting to
    BE the ONLY treatment available for the number one disease in the ..
    Jewish ..

    Mere .. coincidence .. of course ..

    Yep .. for .. sure ..

    1) Deuteronomy 12:23 ; But be sure you do not eat the blood, because
    the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat
    (food)
    2) Deuteronomy 12:27 ; The blood of your sacrifices must be poured
    out...upon/beside??...the altar of your Father
    3) 2 Kings 21:16 ; Shed so much INNOCENT BLOOD
    4) 2 Kings 24:4 ; including the sin of SHEDDING INNOCENT BLOOD
    5) Psalm 50:13 ; Do I eat the flesh of bulls, the blood of goats??
    6) Isaiah 1:11 ; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and
    goats!!
    7) Isaiah 1:15 ; YOUR HANDS ARE FULL OF BLOOD
    8) Isaiah 1:18 ; Come let us reason together!! Your sins are
    like...scarlet...they are....red...as...crimson
    9) Isaiah 1:21 ; Righteousness used to dwell in her..now.. MURDERERS!!
    10) Isaiah 26:21 ; The earth will disclose the blood shed upon her; she
    will conceal her slain no longer
    11) Isaiah 49:26 ; They will be drunk on blood as with wine
    12) Isaiah 59:2-3 ; Your sins have separated you from your Father , He
    has hidden His face from you because your hands are STAINED WITH BLOOD
    13) Isaiah 59:7 ; They are swift to shed INNOCENT BLOOD
    14) Jeremiah 7:6 ; DO NOT SHED INNOCENT BLOOD
    15) Jeremiah 19:4 ; BLOOD OF THE INNOCENT
    16) Jeremiah 22:17 ; But your eyes and your heart are set on SHEDDING
    INNOCENT BLOOD
    17) Lamentations 4:13-14 ; It happened because of the BLOOD OF THE
    RIGHTEOUS shed within her and now she is SOOO... DEFILED...WITH...BLOOD

    18) Ezekiel 9:9 ; The SIN OF JUDAH is exceedingly great... the land is
    full of BLOODSHED
    19) Ezekiel 20:26 ; I gave them over to statutes they could not live
    by... SACRIFICE
    20) Ezekiel 22:3-4 ; YOU BRING DOOM by SHEDDING BLOOD
    21) Ezekiel 22:9 ; In you are men BENT ON SHEDDING BLOOD
    23) Ezekiel 22:26-27 ; They teach there is no difference between the
    CLEAN AND UNCLEAN; they SHED BLOOD
    24) Ezekiel 24:8 ; I put her BLOOD on the bare rock so that it would
    not be covered
    25) Hosea 6:6-7 ; I desire MERCY .. not ..SACRIFICE !! Like Adam
    ....they have broken the...COVENANT OF BLOOD!!
    26) Joel 3:21 ; Their BLOODGUILT ...which I have not pardoned I will
    pardon
    27) Habakkak 2:17 ; In the end... when you discover your sin...YOUR
    DESTRUCTION OF ANIMALS WILL TERRIFY YOU!!
    28) Zechariah 7:7 ; I will take the BLOOD from their mouths the
    ABOMINABLE thing from between their teeth

    Who loves ya.
    Tom
    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

  8. On 27 Jun 2005 20:08:29 -0700, "[email hidden]"
    <[email hidden]> Huffed and Puffed the following into the madness
    of usenet:

    Quoted message said:

    Keep in mind here .. this .. code breaking .. the SAME codebreaking ..
    found .. bloodletting .. and it has now been shown .. bloodletting to
    BE the ONLY treatment available for the number one disease in the ..
    Jewish ..
    who's a racist
    Tom

    if there was ever any doubt, now there is no longer any doubt.

  9. Let's use YOU .. and .. me .. as .. 'case studies' in .. loonacy ..

    Eh .. mack ..

    Me .. I find what I believe to be a medical message in a book about a
    doctor .. a .. Jewish book about a Jewish doctor ..

    The medical message .. iron deprivation / reduction has now been shown
    to be more effective in more diseases .. than any intervention in
    history ..

    You .. sit around and swear at everyone on the internet .. surrounded
    by cats .. and smelling of .. urine ..

    I rest my case ..

    Heh .. heh ..

    Now read my lips ..

    Who loves ya.
    Tom

    Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
    http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
    Man Is A Herbivore!
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
    DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
    http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking

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