Re: I was misled

Quoted message said:

...
Fortunately the American people still have friends in the world even
though our administration is universally hated. However we could
change that too in the upcoming election....

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000
election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the very
rich.

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

... Fortunately the American people still have friends in the
world even though our administration is universally hated. However
we could change that too in the upcoming election....

In France in 2002 and 2003, I found universal friendliness and
support. The French have not forgotten WWI and WWII, contrary to the
lies of the right-wingers in this country, and they do not confuse the
muddled politics of the Bush Administration with those of their
American visitors.

Quoted message said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the
2000 election, and that the character of his administration is not
what he promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than
for the very rich.

You think that matters? The Republicans are the savviest politicians
in the United States and understand well how to manipulate
single-issue voters into voting against their own interests on a whole
raft of other issues. They are the masters of hot-button politics.
Even a repellent [censored] like Tom DeLay has no trouble finding people
willing to pour millions into Republican coffers by manipulating
people blindered by the one or two issues they are obsessed with.

Reagan and Bush I left America a shambles and the public didn't
notice- hell, lots of people think Reagan actually balanced the budget
rather than running up the biggest deficits in history. His failures
have been trumped only by Bush II. For that matter, lots of people
think Reagan started the buildup of American military forces that
contributed to the downfall of the Soviet Union- but that was actually
Carter. Reagan just reaped the reward. Lots of people think Carter
presided over the energy crisis of the 70's- but that was Ford. Since
1980, the Republicans have pulled off one of the most massive
political deceptions in the history of this country and has very
nearly made a liar out of Abraham Lincoln.

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular

vote in the 2000

Quoted message said:

election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the very
rich.

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000

Quoted message said:

election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the
very rich.

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Because voters were prevented from voting? I didn't see any liberals
preventing rich, white males from voting. That's one of the reasons the
left is getting so [censored]. The only thing the right has to worry
about is a few liberal pundits while the left has to worry about racism,
sexism, corporatism, being shot and killed by whacko anti-abortionists,
being denied the right to vote, the list goes on and on.

Greg
--
Destroy your safe and happy lives
Before it is too late
The battles we fought were long and hard
Just not to be consumed by rock'n'roll

Quoted message said:

From: Tim McNamara

Quoted message said:

In France in 2002 and 2003, I found universal friendliness and
support. The French have not forgotten WWI and WWII, contrary to the
lies of the right-wingers in this country, and they do not confuse the
muddled politics of the Bush Administration with those of their
American visitors.

I was in Europe in '02-- Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France. The only
"unfriendliness" I encountered was a little understandable impatience when I
was slow making change, due to unfamiliarity with the Euro coins.

"Lies of the right-wingers". This needs to be on the front page of the
newspaper every day. Those words, not the lies themselves. "Liberal media" is
another lie. Owned/controlled by the wealthy. Some would have you believe
Rupert Murdoch is a hippy.

There is an WWII American tank parked in the town square of Bastogne. It is
unmarked by graffiti.

We walked and rode trams/canal boats/metro all over the place. Everyone knows
you're American (short pants). Not one negative word; to the contrary, friendly
help when asking directions, buying food, etc. "They" don't hate "us". This is
a better deal than some of "us" give "them". Uncle Sam has a long, sad history
of not being very nice when someone doesn't want to play ball by his rules.
"Freedom fries", what a load of trash. --TP

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

... Fortunately the American people still have friends in the
world even though our administration is universally hated. However
we could change that too in the upcoming election....

In France in 2002 and 2003, I found universal friendliness and
support. The French have not forgotten WWI and WWII, contrary to the
lies of the right-wingers in this country, and they do not confuse the
muddled politics of the Bush Administration with those of their
American visitors.

For now. Watch that distinction disappear once and for all time if Bush is
reelected in November.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

A Muzi said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000
election,

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Let's at least get our facts straight on this one. Even the Republicans
will (grudgingly) admit that Bush lost the popular vote in 2000. US
presidents get elected by *electoral vote*, not popular vote. A
president has been elected while losing the popular vote at least twice
in US history (previously in the 1800's); this in itself does not
constitute a controversy.

The disputed issue is whether Bush won the electoral vote, again because
it is disputed whether he won the popular vote in Florida and hence
Florida's electoral votes.

Mark Janeba

DRS said:

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> ... Fortunately the American people still have friends in the
> world even though our administration is universally hated.
> However we could change that too in the upcoming election....

In France in 2002 and 2003, I found universal friendliness and
support. The French have not forgotten WWI and WWII, contrary to
the lies of the right-wingers in this country, and they do not
confuse the muddled politics of the Bush Administration with those
of their American visitors.

For now. Watch that distinction disappear once and for all time if
Bush is reelected in November.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Mark Janeba said:

A Muzi said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the
2000 election,

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Let's at least get our facts straight on this one. Even the
Republicans will (grudgingly) admit that Bush lost the popular vote
in 2000. US presidents get elected by *electoral vote*, not popular
vote. A president has been elected while losing the popular vote at
least twice in US history (previously in the 1800's); this in itself
does not constitute a controversy.

The disputed issue is whether Bush won the electoral vote, again
because it is disputed whether he won the popular vote in Florida
and hence Florida's electoral votes.

Bush won the only vote that mattered: the Supreme Court, who paid back
their debt to the Republican Party with interest. Can you imagine the
grousing we'd have had for the past four years if it had gone the
other way and Gore was in the White House? It'd have been on Rush
Limbaugh's lip severy three minutes for the past four years. And yet
that fat drug fiend [censored] has had the temerity to say that the
Democrats should "just get over it" and "unite behind the President"
time and time again. Ah well, it's all infotainment as he keeps
claiming, right?

Tim McNamara said:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in
Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me —
you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept.
17, 2002

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

...
Fortunately the American people still have friends in the world even
though our administration is universally hated. However we could
change that too in the upcoming election....

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000
election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the very
rich.

"- 46 million married couples would receive an average tax cut of
$1,716.
- 34 million families with children would benefit from an average tax
cut of $1,473.
- 6 million single women with children would receive an average tax
cut of $541.
- 13 million elderly taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of
$1,384.
- 23 million small business owners would receive tax cuts averaging
$2,042. "

Dang, there must be a LOT of "very rich" people in the US, huh?

"Americans in the lowest tax brackets receive the largest percentage
reduction in their tax burden. 3 million moderate-income families will
see their income tax burden eliminated entirely. Example: A family of
four with an income of $40,000 would see their federal income taxes
fall from $1,178 to $45 under the President’s plan. "

I didn't realize you could make so little and still be "very rich".
In fact, I think I'll go order my Mercedes now that I know I probably
fall into that category myownself.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

G.T. said:

A Muzi said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000

Quoted message said:

election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the
very rich.

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Because voters were prevented from voting?

Anyone who was accidentally removed from the voter roles had the
opportunity to correct the problem long before the election.

You also always leave out that the media announced Gore had taken
Florida an hour before the polls closed in the very right-leaning
Florida panhandle - something that likely disuaded thousands of voters
from going to the polls (or maybe from waiting in line to vote in a
"lost cause"😉.

Quoted message said:

I didn't see any liberals
preventing rich, white males from voting.

Gore tried to prevent my vote from counting. I voted in West Palm
Beach county as a mail-in. He tried to have as many of those
(predominantly Republican) voters - including those from the military
- thrown out.

Quoted message said:

That's one of the reasons the
left is getting so [censored]. The only thing the right has to worry
about is a few liberal pundits while the left has to worry about racism,
sexism, corporatism, being shot and killed by whacko anti-abortionists,
being denied the right to vote, the list goes on and on.

Heh heh heh... it's a scary world you live in. Glad I don't live
there. ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

...
Fortunately the American people still have friends in the world even
though our administration is universally hated. However we could
change that too in the upcoming election....

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000
election, and that the character of his administration is not what he
promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than for the very
rich.

"- 46 million married couples would receive an average tax cut of
$1,716.
- 34 million families with children would benefit from an average tax
cut of $1,473.
- 6 million single women with children would receive an average tax
cut of $541.
- 13 million elderly taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of
$1,384.
- 23 million small business owners would receive tax cuts averaging
$2,042. "

Dang, there must be a LOT of "very rich" people in the US, huh?

"Americans in the lowest tax brackets receive the largest percentage
reduction in their tax burden. 3 million moderate-income families will
see their income tax burden eliminated entirely. Example: A family of
four with an income of $40,000 would see their federal income taxes
fall from $1,178 to $45 under the President’s plan. "...

But these people will pay much more in regressive state and local taxes
to compensate for the reduction in federal grants.

In the above list, where are the tax breaks for working people without
children?

--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

Mark Hickey said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the
2000 election, and that the character of his administration is not
what he promised. Bush II has not shown any compassion, other than
for the very rich.

"- 46 million married couples would receive an average tax cut of
$1,716. - 34 million families with children would benefit from an
average tax cut of $1,473. - 6 million single women with children
would receive an average tax cut of $541. - 13 million elderly
taxpayers would receive an average tax cut of $1,384. - 23 million
small business owners would receive tax cuts averaging $2,042. "

There are lies, damned lies and statistics, as the saying goes, and
Bushco and its apologists use them better than most. "Average" is a
useless claim in this instance because of the pyramidal shape of
income distribution in the United States. The "average" family-
meaning a family making a median income- received much less of a tax
cut, while the far-above-average family received the lion's share.
There's nothing compassionate about giving people who already have
lots of money even more.

My wife and I, with a combined income of $61,000, received a tax "cut"
of $183 between 2002 and 2003. Our incomes declined by $255 between
2002 and 2003, which accounts for part of that tax cut- make it an
estimated $150 in tax cuts for us which is less than 10% of the
misleading "average" tax cut claimed by Bushco. So don't try to [censored]
me with this compassionate conservatism nonsense. And don't continue
to lie to me that Uncle W's tax policies benefitted me or people like
me. I know better.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom Sherman said:

Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the 2000
election,

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Mark Janeba said:

Let's at least get our facts straight on this one. Even the Republicans
will (grudgingly) admit that Bush lost the popular vote in 2000. US
presidents get elected by *electoral vote*, not popular vote. A
president has been elected while losing the popular vote at least twice
in US history (previously in the 1800's); this in itself does not
constitute a controversy.

The disputed issue is whether Bush won the electoral vote, again because
it is disputed whether he won the popular vote in Florida and hence
Florida's electoral votes.

Yes, you're right. I was thinking of Florida and responded
flippantly.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Mark Janeba said:

A Muzi said:

Tom Sherman wrote:
> Is should be remembered that Bush II lost the popular vote in the
> 2000 election,
Won by every count except the left's grousing fantasy.

Let's at least get our facts straight on this one. Even the
Republicans will (grudgingly) admit that Bush lost the popular vote
in 2000. US presidents get elected by *electoral vote*, not popular
vote. A president has been elected while losing the popular vote at
least twice in US history (previously in the 1800's); this in itself
does not constitute a controversy.

Those years were 1824, 1876, and 1888.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The disputed issue is whether Bush won the electoral vote, again
because it is disputed whether he won the popular vote in Florida
and hence Florida's electoral votes.

Bush won the only vote that mattered: the Supreme Court, who paid back
their debt to the Republican Party with interest.

The 5-4 decision changes nothing. Gore lost the day, the remedy
crafted by the Democart majority of the Florida Supreme Court,
backfired on him on 11/26/2000.

Because of the make up of the US House and Senate, and the
ramifications of the Electoral Count Act of 1887 (3 U.S.C 15 says in
ties where congress can't come to a decision, the state certified
candidate wins), this was a race to state certification. After
certification, Gore had to fight for a recount that would have
satisfied 3 U.S.C. 5 and the US House, or this race was over. Of
course, he failed to do so, thus cost himself any chance to be
President.

Who ever is certified first, was just about a lock to win the
electoral college. Gore and the FSC cooked up a scheme that would
allow for the certification date to be move, Democrat operatives in 4
Democrat majority counties to use ANY counting standard that they need
to mine for Gore votes, while other Democrat operatives used a
superceded Florida Code to disqualify as many Bush friendly overseas
ballots they could. At the end, Gore should be ahead, the state would
be forced to certify Gore. Once certified, no court could revoke that
certification, Bush loses his electors in the US Senate, Gore loses
his in the US House, but 3 U.S.C. 15 if Congress can't agree, those
who were state certified to be the legal slate.

The plan backfired when Gore was not ahead on the certification day.
At that point, he was finished. The Democrats can fuss all they want
about the SCOTUS, but the damage was done 2 weeks before they received
Bush vs. Gore.

Quoted message said:

Can you imagine the
grousing we'd have had for the past four years if it had gone the
other way and Gore was in the White House? It'd have been on Rush
Limbaugh's lip severy three minutes for the past four years. And yet
that fat drug fiend [censored] has had the temerity to say that the
Democrats should "just get over it" and "unite behind the President"
time and time again. Ah well, it's all infotainment as he keeps
claiming, right?

Tom-<< I was in Europe in '02-- Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France. The
only
"unfriendliness" I encountered was a little understandable impatience when I
was slow making change, due to unfamiliarity with the Euro coins. >><BR><BR>

I was in the UK and Scotland last year. ALL were very fiendly, all had a
universal dislike of Tony Blair and GWB(none I talked to disliked 'Americans',
just our leaders.). All were very well versed in US politics and all were
amazed Arnold got elected as CA governor.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

I was in the UK and Scotland last year. ALL were very fiendly, all had a
universal dislike of Tony Blair and GWB(none I talked to disliked 'Americans',
just our leaders.). All were very well versed in US politics and all were
amazed Arnold got elected as CA governor.

A choral group from the church I attend vistited France, and performed
in the Luxemburg Gardens (?), near the central government in France.

They tell me the people were quite gracious, and all stood when they
played the US national anthem.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

(Qui si parla Campagnolo ) said:

I was in the UK and Scotland last year. ALL were very fiendly, all
had a universal dislike of Tony Blair and GWB(none I talked to
disliked 'Americans', just our leaders.). All were very well versed
in US politics and all were amazed Arnold got elected as CA
governor.

A choral group from the church I attend vistited France, and
performed in the Luxemburg Gardens (?), near the central government
in France.

They tell me the people were quite gracious, and all stood when they
played the US national anthem.

Americans are not as good, IMHO, at separating the antics of
politicians from the people who live in under them. I don't know why
that is. Four years ago, I had clients who were Egyptians and had an
an American-born woman of Iraqi parents (who are naturalized US
citizens and have been for over 20 years) as a translator. During the
Gulf War, their house was vandalized, they were harassed by groups of
people outside their home, their business was vandalized... even
though they opposed Saddam Hussein. They were very hurt and puzzled
that their adopted country could treat them so shabbily and with such
prejudice.