Re: Hydration pack :-(

Anthony said:

Ignoramus19691 said:

Arrived yesterday... It's too heavy, and I will not take it to the
half marathon. It will still be useful, as I would like to do some
long distance running (10-15 miles in the beginning), and it will
probably help during training, where running time is not so critical.

I will drink a bit of salt/lite salt solution prior to the run, to
ensure that I do not run out of electrolytes. The point that several
people made, that a half marathon is too short to be seriously afraid
of EL depletion, is taken.

i

I haven't been following all these threads too closely, but I seem to
remember you saying that you were
planning a 2 hr + for the 1/2. For that long a race, electrolyte
replacement could be an issue.
It's more the amount of *time* that you are running - and not the distance.

It's not just time, but time and intensity. It shouldn't be an issue in a
2 hour jog in reasonably cool conditions. It would be an issue during an
all-out race, but this is not what he's doing.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ignoramus19691 said:

What I need, in the end, is being able to make a correct decision
about what to do regarding hydration and electrolytes, within my
constraints (no gatorade).

You've already made the wrong choices on all the important points (your
"constraints"😉, it doesn't really matter a whole lot what you do about
electrolytes. I can assure you that many people complete runs of 2hrs
duration on a regular basis without worrying too much about electrolytes.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ignoramus19691 said:

Would you think that drinking a tiny quantity of alt/lite salt
solution prior to race should take care of any potential for
"eletrolyte problems"?

As I've said, I don't think these are an issue. I'd be more worried
about drinking some strange brew for the first time on race day. One
thing that applies to a race, even if your goal is just to finish, is
that you don't want to experiment any more than you have to on race
day. It's in your interests to sort out all of this in training. Then
the race is more or less just an extended version of your longest
training run.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Ignoramus19691 said:

Yes, if I run under 2:30, I would be happy, and if I run under 2:15, I
would be on top of the world. It is my first race of this distance.

What I need, in the end, is being able to make a correct decision
about what to do regarding hydration and electrolytes, within my
constraints (no gatorade).

This is what you learn on training runs. Since your diet is different
than what many here use and extremely low training, your hydration and
electrolyte needs may vary also from what anyone here might suggest.
It's like picking a number out of the hat.

Quoted message said:

Are there "electrolyte pills" sold at pharmacies perhaps? I would then
put one or two into my pocket and drink with water on the way. That
would be an easy and clearly no-mistake solution regarding keeping
electrolyte balance. Carrying a tiny bit of mix of salt and lite salt
is also a possibility.

yes, but the best ones are usually mail order (google past threads
here). Some people use salty snacks. You might consider something like
jerky or a slim jim to suck on if needed. But all these should be tested
in training.

Electrolytes are needed to replace primarily sodium lost through sweat
(some other electrolytes also, but sodium is primary one). Your need for
electrolytes on any given day will depend on how much you sweat under
given environmental conditions (temperature, dew point), its salt
content, how much water you consume (straight, sports drink, or food),
and your acclimatization. If you don't get enough fluid, you dehydrate.
If you have too few electrolytes for the amount of fluid you drink, you
could develop hyponatremia (google for many threads). Usually they worry
about this in post-4 hr marathoners, but it could happen earlier. It may
not kill you in 2.5 hrs, but it could affect the way you feel and
recover. This can be found in google.

Dot
google's your friend

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

x-no-archive: yes

Donovan Rebbechi said:

Anthony said:

Ignoramus19691 said:

Arrived yesterday... It's too heavy, and I will not take it to the
half marathon. It will still be useful, as I would like to do some
long distance running (10-15 miles in the beginning), and it will
probably help during training, where running time is not so critical.

I will drink a bit of salt/lite salt solution prior to the run, to
ensure that I do not run out of electrolytes. The point that several
people made, that a half marathon is too short to be seriously afraid
of EL depletion, is taken.

i

I haven't been following all these threads too closely, but I seem to
remember you saying that you were
planning a 2 hr + for the 1/2. For that long a race, electrolyte
replacement could be an issue.
It's more the amount of *time* that you are running - and not the distance.

It's not just time, but time and intensity. It shouldn't be an issue in a
2 hour jog in reasonably cool conditions. It would be an issue during an
all-out race, but this is not what he's doing.

Cheers,

I ran ~17.5 miles a few weeks back, it took me 4 hours. The temp was
around 100. I stopped at every drinking fountain along the way and was
continously drinking water, but from what I've read, electrolyte loss
during a run isn't a big issue. Is there any research on this issue?

<< google past threads here).>>

yes, she's right. Google's just a cloud layer, sort of like the Ozone. just
get through...

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

<< "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog >>

Indeed.
Ruff, ruff. Bark, bark.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
<A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo">http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo</A>

Janithor said:

I ran ~17.5 miles a few weeks back, it took me 4 hours. The temp was
around 100. I stopped at every drinking fountain along the way and was
continously drinking water, but from what I've read, electrolyte loss
during a run isn't a big issue. Is there any research on this issue?

Actually, it can be fatal. And in cases where it's not fatal, it's at
best unnerving. Google the group for hyponatremia.

Here's one article to expand your reading
http://tinyurl.com/6zku2

You might also look for a 1st person account by Michelle Burr
(referenced in the above article). It's on the web, but I can't find
the link at the moment. Newspaper accounts don't do the experience
justice. While you may say that as an ultrarunner she was out a lot
longer, but keep in mind that non-ultrarunners may bump into those same
limits on much, much shorter runs.

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

PS: I should have added that they have changed the way they deal with
aid stations and medical aid in large marathons as a result of improved
knowledge of hyponatremia and its prevention / treatment.

Janithor <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I ran ~17.5 miles a few weeks back, it took me 4 hours. The temp was
around 100. I stopped at every drinking fountain along the way and was
continously drinking water, but from what I've read, electrolyte loss
during a run isn't a big issue.

You've been reading the wrong sources.

Quoted message said:

Is there any research on this issue?

Google for hyponatremia.

Janithor said:

I ran ~17.5 miles a few weeks back, it took me 4 hours. The temp was
around 100. I stopped at every drinking fountain along the way and
was continously drinking water, but from what I've read, electrolyte
loss during a run isn't a big issue. Is there any research on this
issue?

On any runs over 3 hours I'll take Succeed! caps. On runs shorter than that
I don't think it is necessary. They supply 344 mg of sodium per capsule.
One per hour is sufficient. The reason for the capsules is that no sports
drink has enough sodium in it for long runs. If it did, they wouldn't be
selling much because it would taste like sea water. Another good reason to
use caps is that if you put salt in your drink, then you're stuck. You
can't take more or less sodium. With the caps, you can control the amount
without messing up the tast of your drink.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." ­Martin Vanbee

Phil M. said:

Janithor said:

I ran ~17.5 miles a few weeks back, it took me 4 hours. The temp was
around 100. I stopped at every drinking fountain along the way and
was continously drinking water, but from what I've read, electrolyte
loss during a run isn't a big issue. Is there any research on this
issue?

On any runs over 3 hours I'll take Succeed! caps. On runs shorter than that
I don't think it is necessary. They supply 344 mg of sodium per capsule.
One per hour is sufficient. The reason for the capsules is that no sports
drink has enough sodium in it for long runs.

This is an important point. When I say that most distance runners aren't
attentive to electrolyte replacement during ordinary training runs (<2hrs),
it should be clear that in my view, taking a modest amount of gatorade during
or before the run doesn't count.

I don't think many people will go down with hyponatremia running at a low
intensity in cool conditions. Where it becomes an issue is either during
marathons where poorly trained runners overhydrate and/or sweat an enormous
amount (partly because they are often racing all-out), or during unusually hot
marathons, or during ultra races.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/