Re: How much blood doping does it take?

gym.gravity said:

I think for time trialing, every second counts, so every drop matters.

If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3% increase
in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get that?

Robert Chung said:

If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3% increase
in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get that?

That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

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Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3%
increase in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get
that?

That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Robert Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Entirely fictional. But I did think about the original question, and
thought that maybe half a liter would have a noticeable effect. And
noticeable effect maybe one percentage point increase in output. So 1
pint per point. Sounded right too.

E. Walsh

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Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

Quoted message said:

Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Entirely fictional. But I did think about the original question, and
thought that maybe half a liter would have a noticeable effect. And
noticeable effect maybe one percentage point increase in output. So 1
pint per point. Sounded right too.

E. Walsh

Have you asked a gym teacher? Don't come to any conclusions until you've
asked a gym teacher.

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/38/1/99

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

>Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Entirely fictional. But I did think about the original question, and
thought that maybe half a liter would have a noticeable effect. And
noticeable effect maybe one percentage point increase in output. So 1
pint per point. Sounded right too.

E. Walsh

Have you asked a gym teacher? Don't come to any conclusions until you've
asked a gym teacher.

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/38/1/99

LOL!
The article implies that Anquetil was one of the first to boost--I
thought it was the orange juice!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3%
increase in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get
that?

That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Per point of BMI. And he has a whole suitcase full of body parts.

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Robert Chung said:

http://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/38/1/99

Whaditellya? 1 pint per point.

Hmmm. That's interesting. The WADA blood doping expert suggested that
Hamilton was "topping off" with 100 ml doses.

Was that written somewhere?

Stewart Fleming said:

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert said:

On Tue, 3 May 2005 13:40:22 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:

>If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3%
>increase in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get
>that?

That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Quoted message said:

Per point of BMI. And he has a whole suitcase full of body parts.

No, no, no. Suitcase of *COURAGE*.

"He's digging deep into his suitcase of body parts" - Paul Sherwen

Nope. Just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

Andrew F Martin said:

Was that written somewhere?

Hamilton claimed that this was said during his hearing. On his website in
the post dated 18 April 2005, he wrote: "[o]ne expert who helped develop
the test ... allege[d] that I must have been "topping off my blood supply
with 100 milliliter transfusions throughout the summer" for my tests to
come out the way they did."

Virtually all blood transfusions in hospitals are of packed cells. Try
walking into the blood bank and requesting whole blood for a
transfusion and see what reaction you get.

When you donate blood, it gets split into all sorts of things eg fresh
frozen plasma, cryoprecipitate, gammaglobulin preparations etc plus the
packed cells. Because of the need for these other things, it is very
hard to get hold of any whole blood in the medical setting.

On 3 May 2005 03:44:18 -0700, "gym.gravity" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

oops. so one review says 900 ml. I think for time trialing, every
second counts, so every drop matters.

Perhaps in an elite performance athlete, this is true. However, for
joe-blow weekend warrior racers, this isn't all that helpful. Not
only do you have to have the increased volume of HGB, but you have to
train your cells to be able to use it. Pros ride hard and often
enough that their muscles can take advantage of this; non-pros don't.

In other words, don't waste you time thinking about trying it. You
are taking lots of risks with no real benefit.

i got my crit tested every 3 months when I was racing
full time, with a teammate. we had a friend who
worked at a hospital blood lab and he would sneak
us in.
we lived at 5000 feet.
my crit was always around 43, his was 50 +,
usually 52, naturally I should add.
He was a pretty good cat. 1 and trained about
10 hours a week, I always wondered why
he was so good for a skinny emaciated nerd who
didn't train - it was his crit. his VO2 max was lower
than mine and he wasn't exactly what you'd call
an athlete, he liked to drink 40's and raced for
fun and had no ambition.
this is all anecdotal I realize, but
my point: your blood composition is very
important to cycling, one of the most important
factors that determine how good you will be at
the sport, and there isn't really all that much you
can do about it either - except for doping.
which is why so many cyclists dope.
If I could have raised my crit from 43 to 52,
I would have realized an incredible increase
in performance, and it opened my eyes
to why so many cyclists dope - it has to
be incredibly tempting.
When I read about berzin and others having
a crit of 60, I sometimes think maybe it is possible
to turn a donkey into a racehorse with the right
dope.
Vo2 max and LT are trainable, so if you don't have
the best genetics you can work on them, but your crit
actually goes down with hard training.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob Schwartz said:

Stewart Fleming said:

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

>On Tue, 3 May 2005 13:40:22 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>
>>If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3%
>>increase in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get
>>that?
>
>That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Quoted message said:

Per point of BMI. And he has a whole suitcase full of body parts.

No, no, no. Suitcase of *COURAGE*.

"He's digging deep into his suitcase of body parts" - Paul Sherwen

Nope. Just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

You wouldn't keep body parts in a suitcase - it'd have to be the
freezer. So I think the quote might be, "He's digging deep into his
icechest of body parts." Jeff "Boy-Ar-Dee" Dahmer could attest to this.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck said:

You wouldn't keep body parts in a suitcase - it'd have to be the
freezer. So I think the quote might be, "He's digging deep into his
icechest of body parts." Jeff "Boy-Ar-Dee" Dahmer could attest to this.

I beg to differ. Try a Google search for "body parts" "suitcase" and
"Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel" (I am NOT making this up)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Stewart Fleming said:

Howard Kveck said:

You wouldn't keep body parts in a suitcase - it'd have to be the
freezer. So I think the quote might be, "He's digging deep into his
icechest of body parts." Jeff "Boy-Ar-Dee" Dahmer could attest to this.

I beg to differ. Try a Google search for "body parts" "suitcase" and
"Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel" (I am NOT making this up)

Sure, you *could* keep your body parts in a suitcase. But if you have to
store the suitcase o' body parts in the water, it isn't much use when
you're on the road and running short of panache.

--
tanx,
Howard

Butter is love.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Maybe Paul Sherwen knew the truth about Hamilton?

Lanny

Quoted message said:

No, no, no. Suitcase of *COURAGE*.

Quoted message said:

"He's digging deep into his suitcase of body parts" - Paul Sherwen

"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stewart Fleming said:

Robert Chung said:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

>On Tue, 3 May 2005 13:40:22 +0200, Robert Chung wrote:
>
>>If I wanted to improve my TT'ing by 1%, I'd need a (ballpark) 3%
>>increase in average power. How much blood would I need in order to get
>>that?
>
>That's easy. Rule of thumb: 1 pint per point.

Per point of what? And where'd you get that rule of thumb?

Quoted message said:

Per point of BMI. And he has a whole suitcase full of body parts.

No, no, no. Suitcase of *COURAGE*.

"He's digging deep into his suitcase of body parts" - Paul Sherwen

Nope. Just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Bob Schwartz
[email hidden]

"Patricio Carlos" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Virtually all blood transfusions in hospitals are of packed cells. Try
walking into the blood bank and requesting whole blood for a
transfusion and see what reaction you get.

When you donate blood, it gets split into all sorts of things eg fresh
frozen plasma, cryoprecipitate, gammaglobulin preparations etc plus the
packed cells. Because of the need for these other things, it is very
hard to get hold of any whole blood in the medical setting.

Yes, but I would assume that they would reconstitute it with saline in order
to allow it to be transfused. Packed cells would have to be injected which
destroys a lot of them.