Re: Healthy saturated fat?

Bob in CT generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

Why is this a bummer?

I am thinking 'tongue in cheek'. I imagine hearing some such comments
echo across the landscape of the so-called health-conscious types-- you
know the ones who eat wheat germ and have heart palpitations at the
thought of fat in their food and believe a glass of sugar water with a
smidge of vitimin c in it is good for you.

As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart disease
while it manages your diabetes!

--
revek
I'll deny anything!

revek said:

Bob in CT generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

Why is this a bummer?

I am thinking 'tongue in cheek'. I imagine hearing some such comments
echo across the landscape of the so-called health-conscious types-- you
know the ones who eat wheat germ and have heart palpitations at the
thought of fat in their food and believe a glass of sugar water with a
smidge of vitimin c in it is good for you.

As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart disease
while it manages your diabetes!

Ahhh, I need to up my humor meter, I see.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

revek said:

Bob in CT generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

Why is this a bummer?

I am thinking 'tongue in cheek'. I imagine hearing some such comments
echo across the landscape of the so-called health-conscious types-- you
know the ones who eat wheat germ and have heart palpitations at the
thought of fat in their food and believe a glass of sugar water with a
smidge of vitimin c in it is good for you.

As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart disease
while it manages your diabetes!

Ahhh, I need to up my humor meter, I see.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Considering that cardio-vascular disease is the major cause of death for
diabetics, it makes perfect sense to me. I was just assuming that he was
considering his lipid panel as well as BG control. Although perhaps he was
being humerous instead? go on Ig, solve the mystery 😉
--------------------
VBH
T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

Ignoramus7404 said:

In article said:

"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:18:00 -0500, revek <[email hidden]> wrote:

> Bob in CT generously shared with us this little ditty:
>> Why is this a bummer?
>
> I am thinking 'tongue in cheek'. I imagine hearing some such
comments
> echo across the landscape of the so-called health-conscious types--
you
> know the ones who eat wheat germ and have heart palpitations at the
> thought of fat in their food and believe a glass of sugar water with
a
> smidge of vitimin c in it is good for you.
>
> As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart
disease
> while it manages your diabetes!
>
>

Ahhh, I need to up my humor meter, I see.

Considering that cardio-vascular disease is the major cause of death for
diabetics, it makes perfect sense to me. I was just assuming that he
was
considering his lipid panel as well as BG control. Although perhaps he
was
being humerous instead? go on Ig, solve the mystery 😉
VBH
T2/UK/A1c 5.8/ 1000Met/Dx Oct-03

I was part humorous, but part surprised.

I suspect, based on my current readings, that saturated fat is
maligned unfairly. That was the basis for the humorous attitude, so
see saturated fat perform pretty well.

I was surprised that saturated fat worked BETTER THAN OTHER
FATS. That, to be, is counterintuitive. Why does it work better? I do
not know.

i

Personally, I'm surprised that saturated fat is bad, simply from a
chemical perspective. Saturated fat means that all possible locations on
the fat are filled. To me, this should yield a relatively inert
substance. However, the body isn't always logical.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

revek said:

As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart disease
while it manages your diabetes!

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as much as
possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs, excess weight,
exercise are all part of the equation.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.
--
Everything in Moderation - Except Laughter.

Alan generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:18:00 -0500, "revek" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

As in: oh gee, lookitthis, too bad it will kill you with heart
disease while it manages your diabetes!

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as much
as possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs, excess
weight, exercise are all part of the equation.

Cheers, Alan, T2 d&e, Australia.
Remove weight and carbs to email.

Whatever works for you is what you need to go with. However sat fat is
not the evil so many have made it out to be.

--
revek
".Sig, .sig a .sog, .sig out loud, .sig out .strog ." -- Karen
Carpenter with a head cold.

Bob in CT said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect, based on my current readings, that saturated fat is
maligned unfairly. That was the basis for the humorous attitude, so
see saturated fat perform pretty well.

I was surprised that saturated fat worked BETTER THAN OTHER
FATS. That, to be, is counterintuitive. Why does it work better? I do
not know.

i

Personally, I'm surprised that saturated fat is bad, simply from a
chemical perspective. Saturated fat means that all possible locations
on the fat are filled. To me, this should yield a relatively inert
substance. However, the body isn't always logical.

I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...

Jim

Hi Ig:

Quoted message said:

do you have any references to valid current research (randomized
controlled studies) of saturated animal fat? I looked a lot in medline
yesterday, and besides the study that I posted to start this thread,
there was nothing. Dozens of references to saturated fat as bad
without any substantiation.

Some key words/phrases: ceramide, beta cell apoptosis
High-Wire search for phrase "beta cell apoptosis"+saturated+fatty
resulted in 57 finds - http://tinyurl.com/4tsud.

Adding ceramide to the above search terms resulted in 34 finds -
http://tinyurl.com/6oysd

Palmitate is a type of saturated fatty acid.

Monounsaturated Fatty Acids Prevent the Deleterious Effects of Palmitate
and High Glucose on Human Pancreatic ß-Cell Turnover and Function
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/52/3/726
"Glucotoxicity and lipotoxicity contribute to the impaired ß-cell
function observed in type 2 diabetes. Here we examine the effect of
saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids at different glucose
concentrations on human ß-cell turnover and secretory function. Exposure
of cultured human islets to saturated fatty acid and/or to an elevated
glucose concentration for 4 days increased ß-cell DNA fragmentation and
decreased ß-cell proliferation. In contrast, the monounsaturated
palmitoleic acid or oleic acid did not affect DNA fragmentation and
induced ß-cell proliferation. Moreover, each monounsaturated fatty acid
prevented the deleterious effects of both palmitic acid and high glucose
concentration. The cell-permeable ceramide analogue C2-ceramide mimicked
both the palmitic acid-induced ß-cell apoptosis and decrease in
proliferation. Furthermore, the ceramide synthetase inhibitor fumonisin
B1 blocked the deleterious effects of palmitic acid on ß-cell turnover.
In addition, palmitic acid decreased Bcl-2 expression and induced
release of cytochrome c from the mitochondria into the cytosol, which
was prevented by fumonisin B1 and by oleic acid. Finally, each
monounsaturated fatty acid improved ß-cell secretory function that was
reduced by palmitic acid and by high glucose. Thus, in human islets, the
saturated palmitic acid and elevated glucose concentration induce ß-cell
apoptosis, decrease ß-cell proliferation, and impair ß-cell function,
which can be prevented by monounsaturated fatty acids. The deleterious
effect of palmitic acid is mediated via formation of ceramide and
activation of the apoptotic mitochondrial pathway, whereas Bcl-2 may
contribute to the protective effect of monounsaturated fatty acids."

Read the whole article and some others in the searches above. Also read
some of the follow up articles that cite the articles. Free fatty acids
(FFA) are also significant for type 2 diabetes and can result from
dyfunctional metabolism of protein, carbohydrates, and fatty acids
particularly when there is a positive energy balance such as occurs in
eating to much and not getting enough exercise.

Frank

jbuch said:

I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...

This is probably true. The nitty-gritty issue is really one of balance.
It is like arachidonic acid (AA) derived from omega 6 series fatty
acids. AA is important in some physiological actions, but it can give
you a headache or other aches and pains if you have a bad omega 6 to
omega 3 balance in your diet.

Frank

Jefferson said:

jbuch said:

I am sure that if you look, you will find plenty of uses of the
saturated fats in basic body cellular structures.

However, I have no good references.... just some vague recollections
which could be mistaken...

This is probably true. The nitty-gritty issue is really one of balance.
It is like arachidonic acid (AA) derived from omega 6 series fatty
acids. AA is important in some physiological actions, but it can give
you a headache or other aches and pains if you have a bad omega 6 to
omega 3 balance in your diet.

Frank

Yes, Balance.

we really screw ourselves up with the attitude that:

"If a little is good, a lot must be better."

Rather than..."Now that I've got that, what else do I need to add to it?"

These answers, unfortunately, won't work out to be identical for all,
because we complex bio-machines are built with all kinds of modest
programming errors.

Carbohydrate handling problems for some, Fat handling problems for
others, Cholesterol handling problems for still others, and even more
problems in case you haven't gotten one of the above.

Trial and ERROR still seems necessary.

Jim

Jim

Alan said:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as much as
possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs, excess weight,
exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet' suitable
for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited for
a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated fat,
still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.

--
John38 : t2 since 11/03

John38 generously shared with us this little ditty:

Quoted message said:

Alan said:

Possibly one of those "many a true word spoken in jest" statements. I
don't get palpitations over sat fat (just finished my bacon and egg
breakfast - steak for dinner tonight) but I do trim and drain as
much as possible. It's all a matter of balance; so lipids, BGs,
excess weight, exercise are all part of the equation.

I'm getting to be of the opinion that there is no 'right diet'
suitable for 'everyone' with regard to macronutrients (iow
fat+protein+carbohydrate). I've always had problems with wheat. After
diebetes, with all starch. I'm getting to think that some are suited
for a mainly sat fat/meat diet, others more towards fish/unsaturated
fat, still others a vegetarian diet, still others a diet high in
carbohydrate.

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it
to anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if
one size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even
a size.

Wize man. 🙂

--
revek
"Time is an illusion perpetrated by the manufacturers of space."

"John38" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.

Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is on,
"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I read
a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic tests
to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.

In article <[email hidden]>, None Given
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"John38" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For me, a diet high in fish/protein/ and vegetables with a low carb
concentration seems to work best. but I'd be wary of recommending it to
anyone else for the reasons stated above. Wouldn't it be easy if one
size fits all. But it seems that for some of us, there isn't even a size.

Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is on,
"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I read
a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic tests
to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.

you know, I have no idea what my blood type is. I would be interested in
the science describing the diet<>blood type relationship. Any links?
--
John38 : t2 since 11/03 : current Hb1Ac=5.5% :

"John38" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is

on,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I

read

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic

tests

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.

you know, I have no idea what my blood type is. I would be interested in
the science describing the diet<>blood type relationship. Any links?

I don't know if there is any real science to the diet.
http://www.dadamo.com/ is the URL, the book is this one
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/039914255X/104-1156044-0251119?v=glance
There are also some sites that say the guy is full of s*&t and it's all a
racket, look at google for "eat right for your type"

John38 said:

ou know, I have no idea what my blood type is. I would be interested in
the science describing the diet<>blood type relationship. Any links?

None worth spending two seconds over.

MU said:

John38 said:

ou know, I have no idea what my blood type is. I would be interested in
the science describing the diet<>blood type relationship. Any links?

None worth spending two seconds over.

While I don't believe in the blood-type diet, I do believe that genetics
plays a role in what type of diet we should choose. I'd love to see a
study using genetics, low fat, low carb, and mediterranean.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Bob in CT said:

While I don't believe in the blood-type diet, I do believe that genetics
plays a role in what type of diet we should choose. I'd love to see a
study using genetics, low fat, low carb, and mediterranean.

No genetics involved here.

http://www.heartmdphd.com/losewtnd.pdf

None Given said:

Is your blood type O? My mother swears by this blood type diet she is on,
"Eat Right For Your Type." It sounded kind of weird to me, but then I read
a science magazine article about them trying to come up with genetic tests
to predict which drugs will work for different people which seems like a
similar kind of thing.

The term ABO is used for blood types. Both A and B types have different
types of sugar structure in their antigenes, whereas type O does not.
But then again DNA has a sugar backbone. Sugar here is not the household
variety.

"The ABO blood group antigens are the carbohydrate moieties of
glycolipids on the surface of cells as well as the carbohydrate portion
of serum glycoproteins. When present on the surface of cells the ABO
carbohydrates are linked to sphingolipid and are therefore of the
glycosphingolipid class. When the ABO carbohydrates are associated with
protein in the form of glycoproteins they are found in the serum and are
referred to as the secreted forms. Some individuals produce the
glycoprotein forms of the ABO antigens while others do not. This
property distinguishes secretors from non-secretors, a property that has
forensic importance such as in cases of rape."
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/lipid-synthesis.html
See the graphic below the exerpt above for a more complete explanation.
The first 4 of the following are types of sugars:
GlcNAc, galactose, fucose, GalNAc, and sialic acid (NANA)

Using the search term diet in the journal Glycobiology there were 18
finds - http://tinyurl.com/5289g

Using the search term ABO in the journal Glycobiology there were 68
finds http://tinyurl.com/4mxwe

A High-Wire multiple journal search turned up 4,999 finds for ABO -
http://tinyurl.com/5qsnm. It is not a simple subject.

"The clinical use of genomic blood grouping in transfusion medicine
practice has evolved during the past decade as a result of the cloning
of most blood group genes. A recent review 43 outlined different
situations in the clinical laboratory where blood group genotyping may
be valuable and ABO genotyping has been used for many of them, although
acquired and inherited variant phenotypes are probably the most important.

Frank