Re: Handle vs Weight on a 36

MuniAddict said:

What do mean "welded on"? Both the T7 and the coker handle have welds,
but neither are welded *on* to the saddle. The T7 requires a rail type
seat post and the coker clamps directly to the seatpost. It wouldn't
flex any more than the T7, since the coker handle mounts directly to
the *seatpost*-unless you expect your seatpost to flex.🙄

Well on the T7, the critical point of flex would be the part where the
front bar is welded to the rail-adapter, whereas with the coker handle,
the critical point would be the clamp. Maybe it's just me, but it
seems like there would be more handle movement where the handle
attaches to the seatpost on the coker handle. Also, in a UPD, the
handle might get wacked out of alignment, although I guess that could
potentially happen with the T7 as well, but to me it seems more
vulnerable with that design for some reason. Please feel free to
criticize my opinions because I'm speaking from next to no experience
with handlebars. :p

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fatlardboy13 said:

Well on the T7, the critical point of flex would be the part where the
front bar is welded to the rail-adapter, whereas with the coker handle,
the critical point would be the clamp. Maybe it's just me, but it
seems like there would be more handle movement where the handle
attaches to the seatpost on the coker handle. Also, in a UPD, the
handle might get wacked out of alignment, although I guess that could
potentially happen with the T7 as well, but to me it seems more
vulnerable with that design for some reason. Please feel free to
criticize my opinions because I'm speaking from next to no experience
with handlebars. :p

Both setups-including home made versions-have their own inherent flaws
and weaknesses, but in the big picture, it's just a friggin handle!:p
I'm not at all concerned with "flex" and have never noticed any at all
on my T7, and don't expect any on the coker bar either. Plus, I'm not
planning on putting any significant stresses on it, other than an
occasional push up to relieve some pressure on long rides; and that
stress, if any, would be minimal.

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fatlardboy13 said:

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there would be more handle
movement where the handle attaches to the seatpost on the coker handle.

A judgement made on assuming similar materials, workmanship and scale of
components. The flexy part on the T7 appears to be the rails
themselves, though breakage seems to have happened at the welds. But is
this breakage a result of impacts (dismounts), or being flexed through
riding? Probably both. Handles need to be built to handle both in any
case.

Quoted message said:

Also, in a UPD, the handle might get wacked out of alignment, although I
guess that could potentially happen with the T7 as well, but to me it
seems more vulnerable with that design for some reason.

The borrowed T7 handle I'm using has chewed-up grips on the end, the
only evidence of what has probably been many dismounts as the owner was
learning how to ride with the Schlumpf hub. Whatever's on the end of
your handle is guaranteed to take a beating on dismounts. No sign of
bending or other issues on my T7. With the Coker handle, it looks like
off-axis dismounts may be more likely to knock it crooked, just like a
seat that's not tight enough can go crooked. Fortunately this is easy
to straighten out. But as we learned with the original Cokers in the
early years, judging a product by looking at pictures of it gets you
nowhere. We've got to get out and ride with them to see how they hold
up.

As for flex, a little bit of flex might be a good thing. On a long
handle, what I'm looking for is a place to take the weight off my
crotch. This means I'm putting weight on my hands/wrists. A little bit
of "give" in a handlebar system is probably a good thing in those
terms, as long as you have something stiffer you can grab hold of for
hard cranking.

I can ride up hills that aren't steep while staying in my "tuck"
position. If the going gets steeper I sit more upright and hold the T
handle. but when I hit the really steep spots, generally on trails or
at the top of Mt. Diablo for instance, then I hold the handle on the
front of my seat.

Naturequack, please stop flaunting your beautiful green machine in
front of us. Me jealous! "Green" with envy! I knew I was going to
regret not bidding on that work of art... 🙂

--
johnfoss

John Foss
Email: "jfoss" at "unicycling.com" -- www.unicycling.com
-----------------------------------------------

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lately?"
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Boy, everyone seems to have an opinion on the Handle bar for a 36! Mine
conflicts with a few other people's opinions, so it may end up being
"whatever works for you", and you'll have to try out things yourself.

Regarding your question on weight -- you *could* cut off the curly part
of a road bike's handlebar to save weight, but no one does this. That's
because it is a more comfortable and faster position to ride in. In
essence, it is essential.

My opinion:

A handlebar on a 36" wheel is essential for any distance riding. A
design that incorporates high torque abilities (for steep hills) and
forward leaning abilities (for going fast) seems essential.

I like my design of the UniBar -
http://picasaweb.google.com/corbin.dunn/UnicyclesAndParts and
http://tinyurl.com/yp7a7j for a case. Look at the picture, as I'm going
to reference things on it.

Reasoning:
1. Having both hands on the handlebar can make you go faster. Louise
(my girlfriend) finally realized this, and also believes it to be true
(I had been telling her this for ages). Having one hand (or both hands)
off to the side waving in the air can make your wheel twist side to
side, and prevent you from going fast. In addition, that uses more
energy and makes you more tired. This is true with *any* handle.

2. A forward leaning position cuts down on wind drag, and it seems
easier to do this with a T7 or my UniBar. Granted, you don't *need* a
handle for that, but it helps.

3. For going up steep hills, your hands are used to apply counter
torque on the pedals. Heck, George Peck realized this and mentions it
in his "Rough Terrain" unicycling video. To get good torque, you want
your hands close to the seat, so the power is more directly inline with
where your legs are applying a force to the pedals. A KH handle works
well for this, but it isn't large enough for both hands to fit on at
the same time. I solved this in my UniBar by having "power grips" that
I can grab with both hands. I use these for cranking up really (really)
steep hills. I can alternate the force from right to left hand
depending on which foot is applying the downward pressure (sort of like
on a bike).

4. A handlebar lets you take pressure out of the seat. That makes long
distance riding more comfortable.
20 miles used to be painful for me, and now I have no pain after a 20
mile ride.

I use my handlebar for all kinds of 36'er riding. Fast, street riding,
and fast single track riding (generally, in the 1:1 gear for that). It
works well for all kinds of riding, and hasn't gotten in the way when
doing coker muni.

Side note: when I hit 26 mph I was slightly tucked forward with both
hands firmly on my far away grips.

corbin

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http://www.corbinstreehouse.com
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corbin said:

Boy, everyone seems to have an opinion on the Handle bar for a 36! Mine
conflicts with a few other people's opinions, so it may end up being
"whatever works for you", and you'll have to try out things yourself.

Regarding your question on weight -- you *could* cut off the curly part
of a road bike's handlebar to save weight, but no one does this. That's
because it is a more comfortable and faster position to ride in. In
essence, it is essential.

My opinion:

A handlebar on a 36" wheel is essential for any distance riding. A
design that incorporates high torque abilities (for steep hills) and
forward leaning abilities (for going fast) seems essential.

I like my design of the UniBar -
http://picasaweb.google.com/corbin.dunn/UnicyclesAndParts and
http://tinyurl.com/yp7a7j for a case. Look at the picture, as I'm going
to reference things on it.

Reasoning:
1. Having both hands on the handlebar can make you go faster. Louise
(my girlfriend) finally realized this, and also believes it to be true
(I had been telling her this for ages). Having one hand (or both hands)
off to the side waving in the air can make your wheel twist side to
side, and prevent you from going fast. In addition, that uses more
energy and makes you more tired. This is true with *any* handle.

2. A forward leaning position cuts down on wind drag, and it seems
easier to do this with a T7 or my UniBar. Granted, you don't *need* a
handle for that, but it helps.

3. For going up steep hills, your hands are used to apply counter
torque on the pedals. Heck, George Peck realized this and mentions it
in his "Rough Terrain" unicycling video. To get good torque, you want
your hands close to the seat, so the power is more directly inline with
where your legs are applying a force to the pedals. A KH handle works
well for this, but it isn't large enough for both hands to fit on at
the same time. I solved this in my UniBar by having "power grips" that
I can grab with both hands. I use these for cranking up really (really)
steep hills. I can alternate the force from right to left hand
depending on which foot is applying the downward pressure (sort of like
on a bike).

4. A handlebar lets you take pressure out of the seat. That makes long
distance riding more comfortable.
20 miles used to be painful for me, and now I have no pain after a 20
mile ride.

I use my handlebar for all kinds of 36'er riding. Fast, street riding,
and fast single track riding (generally, in the 1:1 gear for that). It
works well for all kinds of riding, and hasn't gotten in the way when
doing coker muni.

Side note: when I hit 26 mph I was slightly tucked forward with both
hands firmly on my far away grips.

corbin

Do you feel your handlebar works better than the t7? Are you willing
to build one and sell it?

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hectorqlucero said:

Do you feel your handlebar works better than the t7? Are you willing to
build one and sell it?

I think so; I think the main advantage is my grips instead of a
standard KH handle.

I have two problems with building the handles:
1. I make them out of old bike handlebars, and I'm out
2. It takes a long time -- mainly to grind things to the right
shape/angles. The welding itself doesn't take that long at all.

I can solve #1 by buying steel handlebar stock, and a pipe bender. I'm
not sure how much a useable pipe bender would cost, and I haven't
priced handlebar stock (really, just steel tubing of the right size
would work).

I can solve #2 by figuring out how to properly cut circle shapes in
steel tubing. It probably involves some special tool which I don't
have.

I need to investigate these items before I really consider producing
any quantity of the handles. If anyone who has metal fabrication and
welding experience knows the answers, please let me know!

corbin

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corbin

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com
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The problem with building custom things for other people is that it's
hard to come up with a price that justifies the time spent on it and
that people are willing to pay.

So either you "rip people off" OR you work for something close to free.

...but if you ever get into producing "Corbin Handles", sign me up for
one :-)

corbin said:

I think so; I think the main advantage is my grips instead of a standard
KH handle.

I have two problems with building the handles:
1. I make them out of old bike handlebars, and I'm out
2. It takes a long time -- mainly to grind things to the right
shape/angles. The welding itself doesn't take that long at all.

I can solve #1 by buying steel handlebar stock, and a pipe bender. I'm
not sure how much a useable pipe bender would cost, and I haven't
priced handlebar stock (really, just steel tubing of the right size
would work).

I can solve #2 by figuring out how to properly cut circle shapes in
steel tubing. It probably involves some special tool which I don't
have.

I need to investigate these items before I really consider producing
any quantity of the handles. If anyone who has metal fabrication and
welding experience knows the answers, please let me know!

corbin

--
mscalisi

Quoted message said:

<> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><

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mscalisi said:

The problem with building custom things for other people is that it's
hard to come up with a price that justifies the time spent on it and
that people are willing to pay.

So either you "rip people off" OR you work for something close to free.

...but if you ever get into producing "Corbin Handles", sign me up for
one :-)

Yeah, that's true! It takes me a ton of time to make one handlebar, and
I'd have to charge way too much if I really tried to make them with the
equipment I have.

I'll put you first on the list for one 🙂. Well, you'll be right behind
Michelle Hastings; she wants one (and is short, so the T7 doesn't work
out for her).

corbin

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corbin

http://www.corbinstreehouse.com
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