General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Re: Google's r.r. ads....

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
6 January 2005
Last activity
8 January 2005
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Newsdude
Posts
29
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  1. Uh. Are you sure you're not confused?

    If you're talking about the text of the results, those aren't links. Google
    has simply highlighted the search terms to make them easier for you to
    spot. It kind of assumed that, since you were searching for those words,
    you might want to know where they appear. They're not links and they don't
    trigger new ads, although they have -- and have been for some time in both
    Usenet and Web searches -- triggered the adwords results in the right rail.
    And I think that's much preferable to having the ads mixed into the
    results, as with some other search engines.

    [email hidden] (Lanceandrew) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    Nike Flats". The words Boston, Marathon, and Nike will likely flag
    & trigger instant sponsorship in viewing via the usenet. I scanned
    some threads and saw all kinds of random sponsorship connected to all
    our words in our posting. The trolls even get sponsorship with their
    nonsense! If you say the word "singlet" or acronym HRM...you will
    have sponsorship/advertising connected to your words (forever).

  2. He's not confused, he's an idiot.

  3. No, I don't think I'm confused and don't think it's "spyware". I also
    don't think you understood what I am saying. Google is taking content
    defined & created by anyone...and connecting ads to that content for
    everyone viewing the usenet via Google (theoretically forever). I
    looked a little further and apparently this is called "Google AdWords"
    or something like that.

    Recent examples: The word Hydration is producing ads w/links for
    emergency medical care services, etc. The word "ipod" is producing of
    course tons of commercial ads. These are commonly used words on
    rec.running.

    I saw some people's post wherein they said "running" and this seemed to
    produce ads for software in viewing this rec.running thread. It's in
    beta and I suppose it interpreted it in running a software app or
    something.

    It certainly looks to me that Google has employed a model wherein they
    are taking individual speech, connecting ads to it...and this is the
    price you pay if you want to view the usenet via Google I suppose. In
    otherwords to view your posting....Google is feeding me ads connected
    to the content of your posting...

  4. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I saw some people's post wherein they said "running" and this seemed to
    produce ads for software in viewing this rec.running thread. It's in
    beta and I suppose it interpreted it in running a software app or
    something.

    I read news at google beta groups sometimes, and I get NO ads. I'm
    confused what you are talking about.

    -J

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It certainly looks to me that Google has employed a model wherein they
    are taking individual speech, connecting ads to it...and this is the
    price you pay if you want to view the usenet via Google I suppose. In
    otherwords to view your posting....Google is feeding me ads connected
    to the content of your posting...

    True but they do separate the adds and title them sponsor links. I
    prefer that to filtering through a single set of responses. I like the
    desktop search - damn fast. I played with froogle once. I put Asics
    2100 and showed me quickly that holabird was $69.95 and most others were
    full retail at $89.99. Looks interesting. Scholar(no ads) looks
    interesting but I'm not sure what references it scans.

    Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?

    -DF

  6. Google is a company that has investors. It needs to make money so we
    users don't have to pay for it and so their investors don't lose money.
    How many of you wish you bought their IPO, especially after getting a
    terabyte of storage for gmail and learning about their
    scanning-of-everything-ever-printed from several university libraries
    thing? Their advertising model of targeting ads based on the text on a
    page really works (as long as the page has HTML text with appropriate
    keywords). I do some web sites and have tried a few different
    click-through programs over the years. Google is the only one that has
    really paid out. Capitalism - what a concept!
    O God, I gotta go out for a run!

  7. Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?

    -DF
    ___

    hey doug. look at it like this. the usenet and or software apps to
    access the usenet to my knowledge has never imposed marketing on a
    reader of ngs. so on that level it's noteworthy. beyond that.

    beyond that, if I'm the Director of Marketing for Nike or PowerBar or
    Gatorade or Nasal Strips or some orthortics manufacturer or
    RoadRunnerSports or any of the thousands of brands or product words we
    say in discussion here.....I would have one employee who's job it was
    to enter lots of ngs were our product category is bantered about.
    Assume numerous identities, posture as a regular in the ng...and drive
    our Google WordAd triggers in threads. My goal would be to make sure
    every visitor of that ng that day was exposed to our URL/link/ad 3, 4,
    or 5 times per day. During the course of a single week...now...a
    typical user of this ng..if using Google to access the ng....might be
    exposed to a RoadRunnerSports Ad/link/URL 230 or 50 times a
    week.....maybe 200 times over the course of a month....who knows.

    All companies can work their product in the threads routinely. If the
    word "nutrition" triggers a PowerBar ad....well it's very easy to
    innocently posture and say "nutrition" in lots of topics on this ng and
    dozens of other ngs on the usenet.

    On another point. We now are all part of the advertising machine
    being used by Google on one side, and the companies on the other.
    Who's paying us for the product placement we're generating? We're
    adding value, driving advertising and furthering brand awareness.

    Some may not see it but the integrity of the usenet just dropped a few
    notches. Yes, I feel used Doug, and so should you all. Yes, I will
    somehow manage to live with it. The business model employed is
    relying on the passive unaware nature of those on the usenet and those
    unable to recognize/ascertain wherein they are part of the chain
    creating value. In sum, Google and the companies are "skimming" value
    off the top of all of us....and since it's ever so slight and
    minor....they're hoping we don't give it 2 seconds of thought and don't
    examine it in a business context and model. Most won't, it will
    work.

    It's the principle, not the degree of the violation that's noteworthy.
    If someone walked up to me on the street and said, "can I advertise
    with intent to profit from what you say?". My reply would be
    "well...since I'm a link in the creating value chain...shouldn't I
    receive some form of compensation or aspect of value too?".

    Sorry folks...I just have value "radar" that goes off when I'm being
    pimped. Yes, I will live with this pimping, but I am being pimped no
    doubt. Yes, I go out of my way to not wear apparel with huge logos
    emblazoned on it...as those companies are not paying me. don't
    laugh..i am dead serious about that. i go out of my way not to be a
    friggen billboard for companies. i tolerate the small subtle logos as
    it's impossible to get good gear without them.

    it's too bad most people are ignorant to when they are being used to
    generate revenue and advertising. We're being used, everyone's
    getting paid except us. Solution? Google should offer free net
    access to all who write 500 words or more (for example) on the usnet.
    i would qualify in one posting LOL!! they have a gizzillion dollars
    and computers. is there something wrong with asking to be compensated
    when you are being used?

    if people in the millions in mass broke it down in this simple context
    .....with the threat of abandoment of Google for usenet use and boycott
    of Google advertisers...it would happen in 24 hours. Again...for the
    most part...the public to be blunt...is stupid. We're all bending
    over, getting pimped, taking it up the ass....and enriching the pockets
    of some pimply faced Y generation kid who takes his skateboard to work
    at Google and has more money than god. We all now work for Google.
    However some of us don't get paid....and I see me as one of them!

    OK, I'm through with my rant. Yes, I'm sensitive when it comes down
    to people profting on me, especially when they have a ton of money.

  8. Doug Freese wrote:

    Scholar(no ads) looks

    Quoted message said:

    interesting but I'm not sure what references it scans.

    I use it mostly for work, but it obviously picks up running-related
    stuff also. I think it's still a work in progress as far as acquiring
    information, but the following link might help.
    http://www.scholar.google.com/scholar/about.html

    It seems to find both refereed as well as some public gray literature
    (non-refereed "publications" but available to public), but doesn't seem
    consistent in what it's finding. So I'm not sure if it's scanning
    publishers web pages for articles or just what. For example, it found an
    "unpublished" document from 24 yr ago, but not a recent refereed article.

    Dot

    --
    "After 26 hours 38 minutes, we accomplished our mission, and the next
    day were fortunate to read about our adventure in the sports section of
    the local papers rather than the obituaries."
    -Dean Karnazes recounting their running of the WS100 trail in winter.

  9. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It certainly looks to me that Google has employed a model wherein they
    are taking individual speech, connecting ads to it...and this is the
    price you pay if you want to view the usenet via Google I suppose. In
    otherwords to view your posting....Google is feeding me ads connected
    to the content of your posting...

    True but they do separate the adds and title them sponsor links. I prefer
    that to filtering through a single set of responses. I like the desktop
    search - damn fast. I played with froogle once. I put Asics 2100 and
    showed me quickly that holabird was $69.95 and most others were full
    retail at $89.99. Looks interesting. Scholar(no ads) looks interesting
    but I'm not sure what references it scans.

    Doug, thanks for the tip on the desktop search! i've installed it and i
    can't believe how fast and how useful it is!!

    The scholar search is my main search site now. i can type in "user
    experience model" and not have to wade through millions of non-relevant
    sites...of course i'll miss those but my days are easier.

    Quoted message said:


    Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?

    -DF

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    No, I don't think I'm confused and don't think it's "spyware". I also
    don't think you understood what I am saying. Google is taking content
    defined & created by anyone...and connecting ads to that content for
    everyone viewing the usenet via Google (theoretically forever).

    Well, those people posting those words on usenet should think carefully
    about whether they want their prose in the public domain before posting.
    If your prose is so freakin' valuable, keep it locked away until someone
    pays you for it.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  11. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    On another point. We now are all part of the advertising machine
    being used by Google on one side, and the companies on the other.
    Who's paying us for the product placement we're generating? We're
    adding value, driving advertising and furthering brand awareness.

    Um, how much do you pay google everytime it searches the web for you?
    How much do you pay for all of those other (non-[censored]) websites you look
    at?

    And how much are you legally entitled to receive for words that you
    willingly put into the public domain?

    On a similar note, if you're in a public place and your picture gets
    taken, and it gets used in an ad, how much money are you entitled to?
    Legally, I think it's none. If you don't like it, don't go out in public
    where you might end up in a picture.

    Quoted message said:

    Some may not see it but the integrity of the usenet just dropped a few
    notches.

    Why do I feel like I should be submitting this post to
    alt.humor.best-of-usenet?

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, I feel used Doug, and so should you all. Yes, I will
    somehow manage to live with it. The business model employed is
    relying on the passive unaware nature of those on the usenet and those
    unable to recognize/ascertain wherein they are part of the chain
    creating value. In sum, Google and the companies are "skimming" value
    off the top of all of us

    As soon as you start paying google for every web search, maybe they'll
    stop.

    How many people out there expect to get everything the internet has to
    offer without paying anything for it (except perhaps to their ISP, which
    doesn't send its money on to the content providers)? Since most of us
    are too cheap to pay for content, the only avenue we leave the content
    providers is advertising.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night,
    and party every day.
    Then it was every other day. . . ."
    -Homer J. Simpson

  12. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    : Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?
    :
    : -DF
    : ___
    :
    : hey doug. look at it like this. the usenet and or software apps to
    : access the usenet to my knowledge has never imposed marketing on a
    : reader of ngs. so on that level it's noteworthy. beyond that.
    :
    : beyond that, if I'm the Director of Marketing for Nike or PowerBar or
    : Gatorade or Nasal Strips or some orthortics manufacturer or
    : RoadRunnerSports or any of the thousands of brands or product words we
    : say in discussion here.....I would have one employee who's job it was
    : to enter lots of ngs were our product category is bantered about.
    : Assume numerous identities, posture as a regular in the ng...and drive
    : our Google WordAd triggers in threads. My goal would be to make sure
    : every visitor of that ng that day was exposed to our URL/link/ad 3, 4,
    : or 5 times per day. During the course of a single week...now...a
    : typical user of this ng..if using Google to access the ng....might be
    : exposed to a RoadRunnerSports Ad/link/URL 230 or 50 times a
    : week.....maybe 200 times over the course of a month....who knows.
    :
    : All companies can work their product in the threads routinely. If the
    : word "nutrition" triggers a PowerBar ad....well it's very easy to
    : innocently posture and say "nutrition" in lots of topics on this ng and
    : dozens of other ngs on the usenet.
    :
    : On another point. We now are all part of the advertising machine
    : being used by Google on one side, and the companies on the other.
    : Who's paying us for the product placement we're generating? We're
    : adding value, driving advertising and furthering brand awareness.
    :
    : Some may not see it but the integrity of the usenet just dropped a few
    : notches. Yes, I feel used Doug, and so should you all. Yes, I will
    : somehow manage to live with it. The business model employed is
    : relying on the passive unaware nature of those on the usenet and those
    : unable to recognize/ascertain wherein they are part of the chain
    : creating value. In sum, Google and the companies are "skimming" value
    : off the top of all of us....and since it's ever so slight and
    : minor....they're hoping we don't give it 2 seconds of thought and don't
    : examine it in a business context and model. Most won't, it will
    : work.
    :
    : It's the principle, not the degree of the violation that's noteworthy.
    : If someone walked up to me on the street and said, "can I advertise
    : with intent to profit from what you say?". My reply would be
    : "well...since I'm a link in the creating value chain...shouldn't I
    : receive some form of compensation or aspect of value too?".
    :
    : Sorry folks...I just have value "radar" that goes off when I'm being
    : pimped. Yes, I will live with this pimping, but I am being pimped no
    : doubt. Yes, I go out of my way to not wear apparel with huge logos
    : emblazoned on it...as those companies are not paying me. don't
    : laugh..i am dead serious about that. i go out of my way not to be a
    : friggen billboard for companies. i tolerate the small subtle logos as
    : it's impossible to get good gear without them.
    :
    : it's too bad most people are ignorant to when they are being used to
    : generate revenue and advertising. We're being used, everyone's
    : getting paid except us. Solution? Google should offer free net
    : access to all who write 500 words or more (for example) on the usnet.
    : i would qualify in one posting LOL!! they have a gizzillion dollars
    : and computers. is there something wrong with asking to be compensated
    : when you are being used?
    :
    : if people in the millions in mass broke it down in this simple context
    : ....with the threat of abandoment of Google for usenet use and boycott
    : of Google advertisers...it would happen in 24 hours. Again...for the
    : most part...the public to be blunt...is stupid. We're all bending
    : over, getting pimped, taking it up the ass....and enriching the pockets
    : of some pimply faced Y generation kid who takes his skateboard to work
    : at Google and has more money than god. We all now work for Google.
    : However some of us don't get paid....and I see me as one of them!
    :
    : OK, I'm through with my rant. Yes, I'm sensitive when it comes down
    : to people profting on me, especially when they have a ton of money.
    :
    My God, man- you sound greedy and angry over nothing. By using Google for
    your usenet, are you not receiving a service without paying for it? And now
    you are actually suggesting that THEY pay YOU for using the service? No one
    is making you click on any of those advertising links, are they?

    You don't wear logos on your clothes because you're not getting paid to do
    so? This may come as a shock to you, but many people these days, esp (but
    not limited to) kids, pay EXTRA for those logos. They derive emotional and
    peer value from the logo-wear.

    Maybe you should consider an entry-level econ class?

    OK, I'm through with my rant against your rant.

    I hope people continue to profit from me without me paying for it- it means
    my broadcast tv stays free, my usenet stays free and my radio stays free.
    Let 'em advertise- in the end, I get to choose whether to buy.

  13. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    : Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?
    :
    : -DF
    : ___
    :
    : hey doug. look at it like this. the usenet and or software apps to
    : access the usenet to my knowledge has never imposed marketing on a
    : reader of ngs. so on that level it's noteworthy. beyond that.
    :
    : beyond that, if I'm the Director of Marketing for Nike or PowerBar or
    : Gatorade or Nasal Strips or some orthortics manufacturer or
    : RoadRunnerSports or any of the thousands of brands or product words we
    : say in discussion here.....I would have one employee who's job it was
    : to enter lots of ngs were our product category is bantered about.
    : Assume numerous identities, posture as a regular in the ng...and drive
    : our Google WordAd triggers in threads. My goal would be to make sure
    : every visitor of that ng that day was exposed to our URL/link/ad 3, 4,
    : or 5 times per day. During the course of a single week...now...a
    : typical user of this ng..if using Google to access the ng....might be
    : exposed to a RoadRunnerSports Ad/link/URL 230 or 50 times a
    : week.....maybe 200 times over the course of a month....who knows.
    :
    : All companies can work their product in the threads routinely. If the
    : word "nutrition" triggers a PowerBar ad....well it's very easy to
    : innocently posture and say "nutrition" in lots of topics on this ng and
    : dozens of other ngs on the usenet.
    :
    : On another point. We now are all part of the advertising machine
    : being used by Google on one side, and the companies on the other.
    : Who's paying us for the product placement we're generating? We're
    : adding value, driving advertising and furthering brand awareness.
    :
    : Some may not see it but the integrity of the usenet just dropped a few
    : notches. Yes, I feel used Doug, and so should you all. Yes, I will
    : somehow manage to live with it. The business model employed is
    : relying on the passive unaware nature of those on the usenet and those
    : unable to recognize/ascertain wherein they are part of the chain
    : creating value. In sum, Google and the companies are "skimming" value
    : off the top of all of us....and since it's ever so slight and
    : minor....they're hoping we don't give it 2 seconds of thought and don't
    : examine it in a business context and model. Most won't, it will
    : work.
    :
    : It's the principle, not the degree of the violation that's noteworthy.
    : If someone walked up to me on the street and said, "can I advertise
    : with intent to profit from what you say?". My reply would be
    : "well...since I'm a link in the creating value chain...shouldn't I
    : receive some form of compensation or aspect of value too?".
    :
    : Sorry folks...I just have value "radar" that goes off when I'm being
    : pimped. Yes, I will live with this pimping, but I am being pimped no
    : doubt. Yes, I go out of my way to not wear apparel with huge logos
    : emblazoned on it...as those companies are not paying me. don't
    : laugh..i am dead serious about that. i go out of my way not to be a
    : friggen billboard for companies. i tolerate the small subtle logos as
    : it's impossible to get good gear without them.
    :
    : it's too bad most people are ignorant to when they are being used to
    : generate revenue and advertising. We're being used, everyone's
    : getting paid except us. Solution? Google should offer free net
    : access to all who write 500 words or more (for example) on the usnet.
    : i would qualify in one posting LOL!! they have a gizzillion dollars
    : and computers. is there something wrong with asking to be compensated
    : when you are being used?
    :
    : if people in the millions in mass broke it down in this simple context
    : ....with the threat of abandoment of Google for usenet use and boycott
    : of Google advertisers...it would happen in 24 hours. Again...for the
    : most part...the public to be blunt...is stupid. We're all bending
    : over, getting pimped, taking it up the ass....and enriching the pockets
    : of some pimply faced Y generation kid who takes his skateboard to work
    : at Google and has more money than god. We all now work for Google.
    : However some of us don't get paid....and I see me as one of them!
    :
    : OK, I'm through with my rant. Yes, I'm sensitive when it comes down
    : to people profting on me, especially when they have a ton of money.
    :
    My God, man- you sound greedy and angry over nothing. By using Google for
    your usenet, are you not receiving a service without paying for it? And now
    you are actually suggesting that THEY pay YOU for using the service? No one
    is making you click on any of those advertising links, are they?

    You don't wear logos on your clothes because you're not getting paid to do
    so? This may come as a shock to you, but many people these days, esp (but
    not limited to) kids, pay EXTRA for those logos. They derive emotional and
    peer value from the logo-wear.

    Maybe you should consider an entry-level econ class?

    OK, I'm through with my rant against your rant.

    I hope people continue to profit from me without me paying for it- it means
    my broadcast tv stays free, my usenet stays free and my radio stays free.
    Let 'em advertise- in the end, I get to choose whether to buy.

  14. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    : Do you feel violated or just making statements about it's behavior?
    :
    : -DF
    : ___
    :
    : hey doug. look at it like this. the usenet and or software apps to
    : access the usenet to my knowledge has never imposed marketing on a
    : reader of ngs. so on that level it's noteworthy. beyond that.
    :
    : beyond that, if I'm the Director of Marketing for Nike or PowerBar or
    : Gatorade or Nasal Strips or some orthortics manufacturer or
    : RoadRunnerSports or any of the thousands of brands or product words we
    : say in discussion here.....I would have one employee who's job it was
    : to enter lots of ngs were our product category is bantered about.
    : Assume numerous identities, posture as a regular in the ng...and drive
    : our Google WordAd triggers in threads. My goal would be to make sure
    : every visitor of that ng that day was exposed to our URL/link/ad 3, 4,
    : or 5 times per day. During the course of a single week...now...a
    : typical user of this ng..if using Google to access the ng....might be
    : exposed to a RoadRunnerSports Ad/link/URL 230 or 50 times a
    : week.....maybe 200 times over the course of a month....who knows.
    :
    : All companies can work their product in the threads routinely. If the
    : word "nutrition" triggers a PowerBar ad....well it's very easy to
    : innocently posture and say "nutrition" in lots of topics on this ng and
    : dozens of other ngs on the usenet.
    :
    : On another point. We now are all part of the advertising machine
    : being used by Google on one side, and the companies on the other.
    : Who's paying us for the product placement we're generating? We're
    : adding value, driving advertising and furthering brand awareness.
    :
    : Some may not see it but the integrity of the usenet just dropped a few
    : notches. Yes, I feel used Doug, and so should you all. Yes, I will
    : somehow manage to live with it. The business model employed is
    : relying on the passive unaware nature of those on the usenet and those
    : unable to recognize/ascertain wherein they are part of the chain
    : creating value. In sum, Google and the companies are "skimming" value
    : off the top of all of us....and since it's ever so slight and
    : minor....they're hoping we don't give it 2 seconds of thought and don't
    : examine it in a business context and model. Most won't, it will
    : work.
    :
    : It's the principle, not the degree of the violation that's noteworthy.
    : If someone walked up to me on the street and said, "can I advertise
    : with intent to profit from what you say?". My reply would be
    : "well...since I'm a link in the creating value chain...shouldn't I
    : receive some form of compensation or aspect of value too?".
    :
    : Sorry folks...I just have value "radar" that goes off when I'm being
    : pimped. Yes, I will live with this pimping, but I am being pimped no
    : doubt. Yes, I go out of my way to not wear apparel with huge logos
    : emblazoned on it...as those companies are not paying me. don't
    : laugh..i am dead serious about that. i go out of my way not to be a
    : friggen billboard for companies. i tolerate the small subtle logos as
    : it's impossible to get good gear without them.
    :
    : it's too bad most people are ignorant to when they are being used to
    : generate revenue and advertising. We're being used, everyone's
    : getting paid except us. Solution? Google should offer free net
    : access to all who write 500 words or more (for example) on the usnet.
    : i would qualify in one posting LOL!! they have a gizzillion dollars
    : and computers. is there something wrong with asking to be compensated
    : when you are being used?
    :
    : if people in the millions in mass broke it down in this simple context
    : ....with the threat of abandoment of Google for usenet use and boycott
    : of Google advertisers...it would happen in 24 hours. Again...for the
    : most part...the public to be blunt...is stupid. We're all bending
    : over, getting pimped, taking it up the ass....and enriching the pockets
    : of some pimply faced Y generation kid who takes his skateboard to work
    : at Google and has more money than god. We all now work for Google.
    : However some of us don't get paid....and I see me as one of them!
    :
    : OK, I'm through with my rant. Yes, I'm sensitive when it comes down
    : to people profting on me, especially when they have a ton of money.
    :
    My God, man- you sound greedy and angry over nothing. By using Google for
    your usenet, are you not receiving a service without paying for it? And now
    you are actually suggesting that THEY pay YOU for using the service? No one
    is making you click on any of those advertising links, are they?

    You don't wear logos on your clothes because you're not getting paid to do
    so? This may come as a shock to you, but many people these days, esp (but
    not limited to) kids, pay EXTRA for those logos. They derive emotional and
    peer value from the logo-wear.

    Maybe you should consider an entry-level econ class?

    OK, I'm through with my rant against your rant.

    I hope people continue to profit from me without me paying for it- it means
    my broadcast tv stays free, my usenet stays free and my radio stays free.
    Let 'em advertise- in the end, I get to choose whether to buy.

  15. Quoted message said:

    Um, how much do you pay google everytime it searches the web for you?
    How much do you pay for all of those other (non-[censored]) websites you look
    at?

    Good point.

    Quoted message said:

    And how much are you legally entitled to receive for words that you
    willingly put into the public domain?

    Bad point. His words (and yours, and mine) are *not* in the public
    domain. They are publicly accessible, but that's not the same thing. I
    own copyright to this sentence and any other I put on the Internet.
    Whether it's "legit" to use my words as a trigger for ad placement is
    a serious question worthy of debate. I don't feel as strongly as Lance
    about it, but I don't think it's frivolous either.

    Quoted message said:

    On a similar note, if you're in a public place and your picture gets
    taken, and it gets used in an ad, how much money are you entitled to?
    Legally, I think it's none. If you don't like it, don't go out in public
    where you might end up in a picture.

    Wrong! Appropriation of a person's likeness (or name) for commercial
    or trade purposes is an invasion of privacy under the law.

    --
    Brian P. Baresch
    Fort Worth, Texas, USA
    Professional editing and proofreading

    If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill

  16. Quoted message said:

    Whether it's "legit" to use my words as a trigger for ad placement is


    a serious question worthy of debate. I don't feel as strongly as Lance
    about it, but I don't think it's frivolous either.
    __

    hey brian. tell me what you (and all of you) think about this. imo
    this will have a "chilling" effect on contributions to threads & ngs
    will be less enriched as a consequence. whaddaya think? we do have
    running trainers, educators, and coaches that contribute here. i'm
    sure we have lurkers with skilled/versed knowledge on topics that would
    prefer to remain silent that facilitate Google and their industry to
    profit on their back, forever going forward.

    Out of curiousity I checked out how this new model works. Ozzie
    Gontang. Ozzie is a "cash cow" for Google on rec.running. It's
    only in beta but Ozzie's speech triggers a lot of advertising...and as
    you would all suspect...mostly around footcare, ankle care,
    etc...healthcare products....but there are dozens of different
    things...and it's in it's infancy. All the years Ozzie has been kind
    enough to share his wisdom and knowledge....well Google is using his
    speech from years ago right now to make money.....and advertisers are
    using his speech right now to get attention. Ozzie is not getting
    any compensation from either party.

    Please don't miss the enormity of this. Google & Advertisers might
    profit for the next 10 years on Ozzie's body of speech (content) of the
    past 4-5 years....even if he never utters another word.
    Connect/translate this stuff to "value". When Ozzie speaks on the
    usenet, he becomes a pitchman for numerous companies and they're riding
    his back with ads.

    Would be interesting to be able to attach a hard number to Ozzie's
    income generating value to Google and the advertisers. I think a lot
    of you are underestimating the ramifications of this whole thing.

  17. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Whether it's "legit" to use my words as a trigger for ad placement is


    a serious question worthy of debate. I don't feel as strongly as Lance
    about it, but I don't think it's frivolous either.
    __

    hey brian. tell me what you (and all of you) think about this. imo
    this will have a "chilling" effect on contributions to threads & ngs
    will be less enriched as a consequence. whaddaya think? we do have
    running trainers, educators, and coaches that contribute here. i'm
    sure we have lurkers with skilled/versed knowledge on topics that would
    prefer to remain silent that facilitate Google and their industry to
    profit on their back, forever going forward.

    Out of curiousity I checked out how this new model works. Ozzie
    Gontang. Ozzie is a "cash cow" for Google on rec.running. It's
    only in beta but Ozzie's speech triggers a lot of advertising...and as
    you would all suspect...mostly around footcare, ankle care,
    etc...healthcare products....but there are dozens of different
    things...and it's in it's infancy. All the years Ozzie has been kind
    enough to share his wisdom and knowledge....well Google is using his
    speech from years ago right now to make money.....and advertisers are
    using his speech right now to get attention. Ozzie is not getting
    any compensation from either party.

    Please don't miss the enormity of this. Google & Advertisers might
    profit for the next 10 years on Ozzie's body of speech (content) of the

    they might profit...they also might not profit and yet they still provide
    the service. the way ad revenue works is a "per click" fee that the
    advertisers pay. if you never click on those ads then google doesnt get a
    dime.

    i dont use the web client myself...i dont know how any of you can stand
    it...but it aint free to put out there. there has to be some compelling
    reason to put it out there and that reason is almost always going to be
    profit. the only other way to generate the funds necessary to support the
    web client and still have some left over is to charge a per-usage charge. Ad
    revenue doesnt offend me so much...but then i dont ever say anything as
    useful as Ozzie.

    Quoted message said:

    past 4-5 years....even if he never utters another word.
    Connect/translate this stuff to "value". When Ozzie speaks on the
    usenet, he becomes a pitchman for numerous companies and they're riding
    his back with ads.

    Would be interesting to be able to attach a hard number to Ozzie's
    income generating value to Google and the advertisers. I think a lot
    of you are underestimating the ramifications of this whole thing.

  18. Brian Baresch said:
    Quoted message said:

    Um, how much do you pay google everytime it searches the web for you?
    How much do you pay for all of those other (non-[censored]) websites you
    look at?

    Good point.

    Quoted message said:

    And how much are you legally entitled to receive for words that you
    willingly put into the public domain?

    Bad point. His words (and yours, and mine) are *not* in the public
    domain. They are publicly accessible, but that's not the same thing. I
    own copyright to this sentence and any other I put on the Internet.

    But we're not talking about sentences, paragraphs, chapters or the whole of
    Lance's wisdom stretched out to fill a postage stamp here. All we're
    talking about is a few keywords picked out automatically to see if they
    match up with any potential advertisers. Picking individual words out of
    the complete works of Shakespeare is *not* plagiarism or "theft of
    intellectual copyright" in the same way that picking a few words out of an
    encylcopaedia isn't stealing wisdom.

    Tim

  19. "Brian Baresch" <[email hidden]> wrote in
    message news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And how much are you legally entitled to receive for words that you
    willingly put into the public domain?

    Bad point. His words (and yours, and mine) are *not* in the public
    domain. They are publicly accessible, but that's not the same thing. I
    own copyright to this sentence and any other I put on the Internet.
    Whether it's "legit" to use my words as a trigger for ad placement is
    a serious question worthy of debate. I don't feel as strongly as Lance
    about it, but I don't think it's frivolous either.

    Whether it's public or not seems to be sticking point. Can you point me
    to something that specifically covers this point. That other wed page
    that was posted was and opinion blurb and nothing that seemed remotely
    legal

    -DF

  20. Quoted message said:

    But we're not talking about sentences, paragraphs, chapters or the


    whole of
    Lance's wisdom stretched out to fill a postage stamp here. All we're
    talking about is a few keywords picked out automatically to see if they
    match up with any potential advertisers
    _

    Tim, Sure, it's presented as you have said above, "a few keywords".
    Sounds innocent. Simple thinking accepts that and never conisders one
    step beyond. That's how it's marketed Tim...but how does it function
    real world? Guess what Tim, those keywords lead you to whole
    sentences, paragraphs, and chapters. So you are exactly wrong Tim in
    the real world, how it actually functions. If you can connect dots,
    you can make that nexus.

    With Keywords Google presents Ozzie Gontang's complete, whole, and
    entire on topic speech. Aligning/partnering to Ozzie's speech is
    really what's being sold to the advertisers (not just the keywords).
    Ozzie's speech then has an array of on topic advertisers clinging to it
    and then Ozzie (in his speech) advises, suggest, and reccommends....and
    guess what...all sorts of related companies with products and services
    consistent with Ozzie's speech get a shot at generating revenue (off of
    Ozzie's speech). Everybody makes money except Ozzie.

    (I'll pass on returning the insult on your intellgence Tim...it's not
    my intent to target you personally).

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