Re: French Onion Soup

"Victor Sack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Kent said:

"Victor Sack" <[email hidden]> wrote

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Kent <[email hidden]> wrote:

Do you even realise how ridiculous you appear? The recipes are as
typical as they get. One is Parisian, from Pied de Cochon, the most
famous of Les Halles bistros.

We

Mrs. and I

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Is that a royal "we", or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

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bought cookware at Dehillerin, which is very near Le Pied de Cochon. I'm
reasonably sure we had onion soup at Le Pied de Cochon.

Okay, just for the moment I am willing to believe that maybe you once
had a version of onion soup in France. If it was Pied de Cochon's one,
it was not something you arbitrarily consider typical. So much for your
experience.

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We were as
indifferent about the soup as I am about the recipe.

Okay, you do not like onion soup as typically cooked in Paris. How is
this relevant to the actual discussion?

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Paul Bocuse's recipe is a long way from traditional French Onion Soup. I
don't how
how many times this must be said

Your ignorance is as astounding as your display of it is ostentatious.

Your degree of cerebrall constipation is astounding. You would benefit from
a
cerebral enema[a high colonic irrigation with a valium solution].
..

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Besides, which "traditional French Onion Soup"? Panade d'oignons?
Velouté d'oignon? Garbure d'oignons? Gratinée lyonnaise? Gratinée des
Halles?

There is a "Classic French Onion Soup", as written in "The Larousse
Gastronomique
edited by Prosper Montagne, "Modern French Culinary Art", by Henri Paul
Pellaprat,
"La Cuisine, by Raymond Oliver, by The Dione Lucas, in "The Dione Lucas book
of French
Cooking". This is what Kili asked for. This is what I described below.
Certainly there are many chef/restaurant variations on the original dish,
but none of them are the classic "French Onion Soup".

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Who are you to argue with Bocuse, one of the greatest chefs in recent
history, a native of Lyon, presenting his home town's most famous soup,
in a way that makes it clear that it is a typical version, not his own
idiosyncratic one?

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We have been to France multiple times. We've driven through all regions
in
the country. We've dined in countless Michelin 2 & 3 star restaurants.
We've
never had an interest in Nouvelle Cuisine.

You are either lying outright, or your ignorance is even greater than I
realised. You've just actually confirmed that you have not had onion
soup in France, except perhaps that one time in Paris.

We all eat lunch, Victor.

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First, virtually no 2- or 3-star restaurants serve onion soup.
Not even Bocuse does in
his main restaurant, even though quite a few bourgeois dishes do appear
on his menu. He does serve it in his Rotisserie Le Nord, for EUR 6.90.
Second, most every 2- or 3-star French restaurant today is a nouvelle
cuisine one. Hardly anyone still rigidly adheres to the canons of
Carême or Escoffier, except for often following the latter's advice to
"fait simple".

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You will easily discover that
most onion soups of this kind are made with either water or chicken
stock. You will also discover just as easily that onions are
relatively
rarely caramelised.

99% of French Onion Soup recipes include slowly and lightly browning the
onion before
adding stock.

You are showing your fundamental dishonesty. First you start with
claiming that no water is used, and that "carmelizing" of onions is
necessary. Now you are backpedaling furiously and only claim light
browning of onions. And yet not browning them is just as typical in
France.

Victor, you lightly brown, over low heat for 20, to as long as 40 minutes
until
the onions become soft, and have a caramel like taste. This is what gives
the
soup its unique flavor. Then you add your stock, usually beef stock.

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See >

<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/11/magazine/11food.t.html?ex=1174795200

&en=6a7ea3acd4b74a40&ei=5070>.

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I have a very hard time accepting that a food editor from the New York
Times
would have the correct information about an issue such as this. Barbara
Kafka is an >> exception. Amanda Hesser's recipe for French Onion Soup
isn't remotely the
classical soup.
TOMATO??????????????????? Get serious.

Okay, I see that you are not just ignorant and dishonest, you also
totally lack any reading comprehension. Have you ever been gainfully
employed? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. Hint (of the kind usually
reserved for the retarded): The recipe is not Amanda Hesser's; it is
Henri Babinski's, AKA Ali-Bab's, recipe, first published in 1907 in
France.

TOMATO, TOMATO, TOMATO! THERE AIN'T NO TOMATO IN 99.99% OF "FRENCH
ONION SOUPS"

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It was first published in the New York Times by one Craig
Claiborne, in 1974. (Needless to say, all of this information is
provided in the article.) While I do happen to know something about
Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely, his culinary expertise is
not in doubt, I hope.

The Onion Soup recipe in Craig Claiborne's original "New York Times
Cookbook" published in 1961
is identical to what I wrote to Kili at the end of this somewhat ludicrious
thread.

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As to Ali-Bab, his monumental "Gastronomie
pratique" does not need much introduction, I assume.

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You might have also maybe thought of reading something about the
history
of the French onion soup in order to discover the prototypical panade
d'oignons, made with water.

See also <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.

Please, Victor, try to remember that Kili asked for a workable classical
French Onion Soup. You have not done that, even remotely. I would suggest
you go to your kitchen, and make your third soup recipe. 3/4 lb. onions
to 6
cups water is a joke. The addition of egg yolk and port wine convert the
soup to a completely different dish.

You know, you have already made every effort to prove your ignorance and
I gladly confirm that you have succeeded most admirably. There is
really no need for you to supply yet another example.

Have you ever heard of La Mère Brazier? (This, BTW, is a rhetorical
question.) Bocuse was her pupil, too. You are now very welcome to look
up her classical gratinée lyonnaise recipe. Hint: it calls for egg
yolks and port wine.

99+% of French Onion Soup recipes don't call for egg.

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I don't know why I'm carrying on about your ludicrious assertions. I
think,
however, that RFC readers should know who the bull [censored] are. You're
right in a class with PENMART01, or Sheldon, who calls Lobel's meat
books,
and Rutas' sausage book cookbooks.

I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
Victor

Victor, you truly have your head up your inferior orifice, leaving you
shaped like a tire, rolling down
a hill, with your arms flailing about to maintain some semblance of
balance. You not only need
a high colonic irrigation, you will need a toothbrush and a washcloth when
you get to the
bottom of the hill.

Head to the kitchen, boy,

Kent

Has either of you a recipe for Onion Soup Alfredo?

Felice

Felice Friese said:

Has either of you a recipe for Onion Soup Alfredo?

Felice

From Europe?

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 15:24:25 -0400, Goomba38 <[email hidden]>

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Felice Friese said:

Has either of you a recipe for Onion Soup Alfredo?

Felice

From Europe?

And it better be authentic...

TammyM

Kent said:

"Victor Sack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Kent said:

We

Mrs. and I

They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.

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Besides, which "traditional French Onion Soup"? Panade d'oignons?
Velouté d'oignon? Garbure d'oignons? Gratinée lyonnaise? Gratinée des
Halles?

There is a "Classic French Onion Soup", as written in "The Larousse
Gastronomique
edited by Prosper Montagne, "Modern French Culinary Art", by Henri Paul
Pellaprat,
"La Cuisine, by Raymond Oliver, by The Dione Lucas, in "The Dione Lucas book
of French
Cooking". This is what Kili asked for. This is what I described below.
Certainly there are many chef/restaurant variations on the original dish,
but none of them are the classic "French Onion Soup".

There is no such thing as "French Onion Soup" in France. No amount of
your ignorant bloviatings will change this simple fact. They tend to
speak French in France, for some strange reason, and they do not call
their soups "French" or even "francaises". "Onion soup" in French is
just as generic as in English, so the soups get specific names. You are
obviously monolingual, which only exacerbates your ignorance. That same
Larousse Gastronomique, in original, clearly distinguishes between
various versions, saying that onion soup of this kind is of Lyonnaise
origin and is different from the Parisian gratinée as served in les
Halles and Montmartre bistros.

Did you read those books at all? Can you read and comprehend?
Pellaprat's recipe includes garlic. Do you consider this typical? And
the fact that the garlic is put in at the same time as onions already
means that the onions do not get caramelised, because by the time they
are, garlic will get bitter.

Which Raymond Oliver recipe do you mean? He published two: Soupe à
l'oignon des noctambules and soupe à l'oignon gratinée. He never
published anything called "French Onion Soup". He wrote in French, you
see.

You have been pointed to the research done specifically to educate
monolingual anglophones who have never visited France. It was done by
someone competent and able to read French:
<http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.

I can also point you to Jacques Pépin's books in which he tells you that
onion soup as served is France can have crust on top or sometimes it is
just broth. That the onions are sautéed lightly and left in the soup
and that other times they are browned to dark stage, then sligtly singed
with flour, cooked, then pushed through a food mill. That the soup can
be made with chicken stock, a mixture of chicken and beef stock, or with
a mixture of water and stock. That the Lyonnaise version is made with
water rather than stock.

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You are either lying outright, or your ignorance is even greater than I
realised. You've just actually confirmed that you have not had onion
soup in France, except perhaps that one time in Paris.

We all eat lunch, Victor.

You have never had onion soup in France. It is obvious. Anyone who had
it a few times would know better than to start your ignorant rantings.

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Victor, you lightly brown, over low heat for 20, to as long as 40 minutes
until
the onions become soft, and have a caramel like taste. This is what gives
the
soup its unique flavor. Then you add your stock, usually beef stock.

You have never cooked onions, then. When lightly sautéed, as in a lot
of onion soup recipes, they most certainly do not have any caramel
taste. And, again, it is usually not beef stock.

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Okay, I see that you are not just ignorant and dishonest, you also
totally lack any reading comprehension. Have you ever been gainfully
employed? If so, I'm genuinely surprised. Hint (of the kind usually
reserved for the retarded): The recipe is not Amanda Hesser's; it is
Henri Babinski's, AKA Ali-Bab's, recipe, first published in 1907 in
France.

TOMATO, TOMATO, TOMATO! THERE AIN'T NO TOMATO IN 99.99% OF "FRENCH
ONION SOUPS"

You are screaming so hard, you are foaming at the mouth. You do not
know anything about onion soups in France. You know only American
versions, or those adapted for Americans by the editors of French
cookbooks.

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It was first published in the New York Times by one Craig
Claiborne, in 1974. (Needless to say, all of this information is
provided in the article.) While I do happen to know something about
Claiborne that makes me dislike him intensely, his culinary expertise is
not in doubt, I hope.

The Onion Soup recipe in Craig Claiborne's original "New York Times
Cookbook" published in 1961
is identical to what I wrote to Kili at the end of this somewhat ludicrious
thread.

Yes, and Claiborne obviously realised that there is more than one
version of the soup. He also knew who Ali-Bab was.

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Have you ever heard of La Mère Brazier? (This, BTW, is a rhetorical
question.) Bocuse was her pupil, too. You are now very welcome to look
up her classical gratinée lyonnaise recipe. Hint: it calls for egg
yolks and port wine.

99+% of French Onion Soup recipes don't call for egg.

Again, you know nothing about onion soups in France. The Lyonnaise
version typically calls for egg yolks and port. Ever read Richard
Olney? No, of course not. And who the hell is la Mère Brazier, let
alone Richard Olney? Right?

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I do not know why some of you have suddenly started projecting so hard;
maybe it is some unfortunate combination of ignorance and narcissism.
Victor

Victor, you truly have your head up your inferior orifice, leaving you
shaped like a tire, rolling down
a hill, with your arms flailing about to maintain some semblance of
balance. You not only need
a high colonic irrigation, you will need a toothbrush and a washcloth when
you get to the
bottom of the hill.

I was right, it is a hard case of projecting and ignorance.

Victor

[email hidden] (Victor Sack) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

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Kent said:

"Victor Sack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Kent <[email hidden]> wrote:

> We

Mrs. and I

They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.

<snip>

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Victor

Sounds like a reply by someone who does a hell of a lot more reading than
cooking.

M

Morvin Stayner said:

[email hidden] (Victor Sack) wrote in

Quoted message said:

Kent said:

"Victor Sack" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> Kent <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>> We

Mrs. and I

They gave you a marrige licence? Amazing.

<snip>

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Victor

Sounds like a reply by someone who does a hell of a lot more reading than
cooking.

M

Sounds like a comment by someone who does neither.

Victor