Re: FEMA Chief - totally unqualified??

"Bill Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

He fits right in with the incompetence of the President, Governor Blanco,
and Mayor Nagin. It's a true "Confederacy of Dunces".

Hehe - very appropriate, considering the locale.

I can see the banner now: Ignatius Reilly - New FEMA Director!!

It just stuns me that the whole situation was handled so poorly. It's sad.
Hearing reports of NOPD officers turning in their badges and walking away
says a lot for the motivation and morale of that police department.

Quoted message said:

In reality if you were to optimize homeland security with the augemation of
FEMA, this would have been treated as a terrorist episode. You have to ask,
would the repsonse to New Orleans been any different if the dykes were blown
up by terrorists? The ansnwer is obviously, no--no difference. So what is
homeland security about?

It also exposes the fact that you do not have to go to Iraq to find
disenfranchized people looking for democracy. They live among us. Imagine
that. The isurgents in Iraq are saying," go home we will give you oil and
sand to block the dykes. Clean up your nation before you trounce ours and
our religion."

Imagine that! Not a far stretch at all.

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Bill Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

He fits right in with the incompetence of the President, Governor Blanco,
and Mayor Nagin. It's a true "Confederacy of Dunces".

Hehe - very appropriate, considering the locale.

I can see the banner now: Ignatius Reilly - New FEMA Director!!

Why? Because no one will listen to the line--the guys who are in it up to
their chin? Damn, man if the plantations were intact we would have moved our
negroes with us. Too bad they could not load their Range Rovers and come
with us!

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bill Henry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

He fits right in with the incompetence of the President, Governor
Blanco, and Mayor Nagin. It's a true "Confederacy of Dunces".

Hehe - very appropriate, considering the locale.

I can see the banner now: Ignatius Reilly - New FEMA Director!!

It just stuns me that the whole situation was handled so poorly. It's sad.
Hearing reports of NOPD officers turning in their badges and walking away
says a lot for the motivation and morale of that police department.

Quoted message said:

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In reality if you were to optimize homeland security with the augemation
of FEMA, this would have been treated as a terrorist episode. You have to
ask, would the repsonse to New Orleans been any different if the dykes
were blown up by terrorists? The ansnwer is obviously, no--no difference.
So what is homeland security about?

I'll bet if the citizens of New Orleans were told a nuclear weapon was
hidden int the city and was going to detonate in three days, every single
person would have evacuated.

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In reality if you were to optimize homeland security with the augemation
of FEMA, this would have been treated as a terrorist episode. You have to
ask, would the repsonse to New Orleans been any different if the dykes
were blown up by terrorists? The ansnwer is obviously, no--no difference.
So what is homeland security about?

It also exposes the fact that you do not have to go to Iraq to find
disenfranchized people looking for democracy. They live among us. Imagine
that. The isurgents in Iraq are saying," go home we will give you oil and
sand to block the dykes. Clean up your nation before you trounce ours and
our religion."

Imagine that! Not a far stretch at all.

some of the dumbest stuff yet.

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

would the repsonse to New Orleans been any different if the dykes were
blown up by terrorists?

Or perhaps by homophobes?

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Your response does not make any sense. It is an apples to oranges
comparison.

Inevitable doom with three days warning is the same with a terrorist event
or hurricane. The people in New Orleans had LOTS of opportunity to get the
citizenry out. The fact that they didn't speaks volumes about the ineptitude
of both the city and state governments. Look, I grew up in Louisiana---it's
a hotbed of corruption AND inefficiency. Giving people the option to hide
out in the Superdome was stupid. The mayor should have had school buses in
the 'dome parking lot and gotten people the hell out of town.

OK! Damn. Sorry fella's. I jus po white folk with a degree. I know that
since CondaLEEZA Rice and Alberto Gonzalez have gained office that racism is
dead. Your counter arguments are beyond me. I will not try to pass judgment
on how the world came to be in your eyes. It is your truth. Too me the world
is slightly more complex. I do not believe that because one sector of
humanity has all the dollars means they have all the wisdom. Too many
scientist dispel this notion.

So lets say it is the corrupt local officials. Where are the FBI?

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Your response does not make any sense. It is an apples to oranges
comparison.

Inevitable doom with three days warning is the same with a terrorist event
or hurricane. The people in New Orleans had LOTS of opportunity to get the
citizenry out. The fact that they didn't speaks volumes about the
ineptitude of both the city and state governments. Look, I grew up in
Louisiana---it's a hotbed of corruption AND inefficiency. Giving people
the option to hide out in the Superdome was stupid. The mayor should have
had school buses in the 'dome parking lot and gotten people the hell out
of town.

TomCAt said:

When the mayor called for an evacuation, on Sunday Aug. 28, he was well
awhere that a large number of his citizens had no way to leave except walk.
So, did he use the hundreds of school buses, and public transportation buses
that the city of New Orleans owned?

Evacuate them to where? For this to work, FEMA would have had to
pre-arrange somewhere to deposit the evacuees, as they eventually did at
the Houston Astrodome and various other locations. My guess is that they
will probably set some sort of standard for doing this in future
evacuations.

Quoted message said:

This isn't about Racism it is about Stupidity.

I don't doubt that race played a role in the initial 'blame-the-victims'
theme that the media chose. However, Louisiana's lack of senior senators
or congressmen on important comittees and the unwillingness of the state
legislature to raise sufficent taxes probably played a much greater role
in the neglect of the dykes.

-Mike

What about the Feds cancellation of 2 plus million dollars to fix the
problem. The most STARK fact in this disaster is EVERYONE knew it was
coming. They knew about it for the last 50 years. If I were a terrorist, it
would have been pay dirt. That is what freaks me out. Homeland security
should have been prepared. Prepared means that any disaster would be for
Homeland security to dive into--head first. Again, if homeland security were
for real, the threat and subsequent resolve to respond would
undistinguishable. That is a logical fact.

So why the failure??? We are not ready but the terrorists are?

It is pretty simple. In fact, Bill Sorni you should be able to see the logic
in this.

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:i96Te.7701$ia7.5646@trndny08...

Quoted message said:

TomCAt said:

When the mayor called for an evacuation, on Sunday Aug. 28, he was well
awhere that a large number of his citizens had no way to leave except
walk. So, did he use the hundreds of school buses, and public
transportation buses that the city of New Orleans owned?

Evacuate them to where? For this to work, FEMA would have had to
pre-arrange somewhere to deposit the evacuees, as they eventually did at
the Houston Astrodome and various other locations. My guess is that they
will probably set some sort of standard for doing this in future
evacuations.

Quoted message said:

This isn't about Racism it is about Stupidity.

I don't doubt that race played a role in the initial 'blame-the-victims'
theme that the media chose. However, Louisiana's lack of senior senators
or congressmen on important comittees and the unwillingness of the state
legislature to raise sufficent taxes probably played a much greater role
in the neglect of the dykes.

-Mike

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So lets say it is the corrupt local officials. Where are the FBI?

In this building here 😉
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/images/fbihq.jpg

Rooting out corruption depends a LOT on who the US Attorney is, because
that's who would prosecute -- or fail to prosecute -- corruption cases. The
US Attorney is appointed by the president, but usually based on the
nomination of the senator(s) of the president's party in that state.

So basically you have a political process that isn't particularly designed
to optimize finding corruption.

So, failing to cover themselves with glory we have
a white male president
a black male mayor
a white female governor
We need a less than fully competent black female to complete the square.

Condi Rice won't work. I don't understand why the heck she's being quoted at
all. She's Secretary of State, which is a very important job that has
nothing at all to do with domestic natural disasters.

Brian Wax said:

Homeland
security should have been prepared.

I don't see how an agency so large and so completely without misson or
focus will ever be able to do anything right.

-Mike

That is an indisputable fact!!

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"none" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oZ6Te.850$tx.428@trndny02...

Quoted message said:

Brian Wax said:

Homeland
security should have been prepared.

I don't see how an agency so large and so completely without misson or
focus will ever be able to do anything right.

-Mike

Really! If the terrorist threat that is pumped down or throat is real, does
it have nothing to do with our foreign policy? If we left Islam alone to
toil under their own ideologues would we not be safer today??

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Mike Kruger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Brian Wax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So lets say it is the corrupt local officials. Where are the FBI?

In this building here 😉
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/factsfigure/images/fbihq.jpg

Rooting out corruption depends a LOT on who the US Attorney is, because
that's who would prosecute -- or fail to prosecute -- corruption cases.
The US Attorney is appointed by the president, but usually based on the
nomination of the senator(s) of the president's party in that state.

So basically you have a political process that isn't particularly designed
to optimize finding corruption.

So, failing to cover themselves with glory we have
a white male president
a black male mayor
a white female governor
We need a less than fully competent black female to complete the square.

Condi Rice won't work. I don't understand why the heck she's being quoted
at all. She's Secretary of State, which is a very important job that has
nothing at all to do with domestic natural disasters.

Brian Wax said:

OK! Damn. Sorry fella's. I jus po white folk with a degree. I know
that since CondaLEEZA Rice and Alberto Gonzalez have gained office
that racism is dead. Your counter arguments are beyond me. I will not
try to pass judgment on how the world came to be in your eyes. It is
your truth. Too me the world is slightly more complex. I do not
believe that because one sector of humanity has all the dollars means
they have all the wisdom. Too many scientist dispel this notion.

You have a degree and can't figure out why top-posting is moronic? (No
comment on your grammar and typing.)

Also, "CondaLEEZA"? That sure /sounds/ a little prejudiced; what did you
mean by that emphasis? Do you have a problem with a black female achieving
a powerful position in government?

Very revealing post, Bri Guy! Thanks! :-D

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 02:10:54 GMT, "Mike Kruger" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Condi Rice won't work. I don't understand why the heck she's being quoted at
all. She's Secretary of State, which is a very important job that has
nothing at all to do with domestic natural disasters.

She's the one turning down all the international help.

Jasper

none said:

Brian Wax said:

Homeland
security should have been prepared.

Pardon me for butting in (and no I have not read the whole thread so sorry
if I cut across any argument) but, the whole thing to me looks like a basic
failure of LOCAL emergency planning.

Part of the known facts before the event was that if the levees were
breached, certain well defined areas would be flooded to a known minimum
depth.

Yet, from the news I see there were people within those areas seeking refuge
in lofts and drowning there. Every household in the "known flooded zone"
should have had a clear evacuation plan. Patently, they did not

Similarly, it was known that the major part of the city would be flooded if
the levees were breached, therefore there should have been in place a pre
arranged evacuation plan to use the school busses etc.

Ditto there were many other things that could and should have been done in
emergency planning terms to mitigate what was a known "low probability -
high consequence" risk.

I'm inclined to think that these things were not done partly because doing
them would have made the city population directly aware of the risks they
faced simply by being there and would have lead to a popular clamour to
improve the defences despite the cost being prohibitively large.

From here it looks very much like FEMA (however competent or incompetently
they may be) are having to pick up the pieces resulting from a local failure
to prepare for the inevitable.

pk

Well I am glad you have me all figgered out. I call you next time I need the
insights? Am I top posting again??

--
I never submitted the whole system of my
opinions to the creed of any party of men
whatever in religion, in philosophy, in
politics, or in anything else where I was
capable of thinking for myself. Such an
addiction is the last degradation of a free
and moral agent.

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brian Wax said:

OK! Damn. Sorry fella's. I jus po white folk with a degree. I know
that since CondaLEEZA Rice and Alberto Gonzalez have gained office
that racism is dead. Your counter arguments are beyond me. I will not
try to pass judgment on how the world came to be in your eyes. It is
your truth. Too me the world is slightly more complex. I do not
believe that because one sector of humanity has all the dollars means
they have all the wisdom. Too many scientist dispel this notion.

You have a degree and can't figure out why top-posting is moronic? (No
comment on your grammar and typing.)

Also, "CondaLEEZA"? That sure /sounds/ a little prejudiced; what did you
mean by that emphasis? Do you have a problem with a black female
achieving a powerful position in government?

Very revealing post, Bri Guy! Thanks! :-D

p.k. said:

none said:

Brian Wax said:

Homeland
security should have been prepared.

Pardon me for butting in (and no I have not read the whole thread so
sorry if I cut across any argument) but, the whole thing to me looks
like a basic failure of LOCAL emergency planning.

Part of the known facts before the event was that if the levees were
breached, certain well defined areas would be flooded to a known
minimum depth.

Yet, from the news I see there were people within those areas seeking
refuge in lofts and drowning there. Every household in the "known
flooded zone" should have had a clear evacuation plan. Patently, they
did not
Similarly, it was known that the major part of the city would be
flooded if the levees were breached, therefore there should have been
in place a pre arranged evacuation plan to use the school busses etc.

Ditto there were many other things that could and should have been
done in emergency planning terms to mitigate what was a known "low
probability - high consequence" risk.

I'm inclined to think that these things were not done partly because
doing them would have made the city population directly aware of the
risks they faced simply by being there and would have lead to a
popular clamour to improve the defences despite the cost being
prohibitively large.
From here it looks very much like FEMA (however competent or
incompetently they may be) are having to pick up the pieces resulting
from a local failure to prepare for the inevitable.

Butt in more often :-D