Re: Do You Remember?

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Bill C said:

On Apr 29, 5:00 pm, Steven Bornfeld <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks, but I only SEEM infantile.  I try not to get my medical advice
from Oprah, but things go up and down more than enough in clinical
medicine, let alone faddists.  I DID take vitamin E until there was
demonstrated a possible increase in lung cancer risk; I still take a
multivitamin, but cut out the minerals after the increased cardiac risk
of iron supplements for men was demonstrated.

Steve-

It's like everything else. You get the best info you can, and make
informed choices, unless you're getting your info from the idiot box
talking heads, then you get what you deserve.
I know quite a few vegetarian athletes, my daughter in particular,
who aren't careful enough with their diet, regularly, to make sure
they get enough iron. That brings on anemia, verified by bloodwork,
and the anemia and all the symptoms go away, with good
supplementation, also verified by bloodwork, all done at our local
hospital lab, under doc's orders.
I guess the point is that, for 90% of us, or so, who don't eat a high
quality, complete diet, a good multivitamin/mineral makes sense to me.
The other effect is the placebo effect, if you will, of feeling better
about having done something that you believe is healthy. Cheap peace
of mind, and decreased stress with little to no cost or negative
effects.

I look at the prices of those jars, and think of the food
I can buy with that money. A carefully planned course of
vitamins and minerals can cost $5 a day. Then there are
the hours of research to plan the course, the research
to determine which jars actually deliver the goods, and
finally the time to acquire the goods.

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every
bite. My cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our
bodies are organized to thrive on a particular diet and
I conform to my body's requirements. Close attention over
time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

Remember that everything you eat regularly is habit
forming. Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee? Suppose that somebody takes daily large
doses of vitamin C, then for any number of reasons stops.
He is at risk for developing scurvy. Your body develops
a dependency on a vitamin regimen and suffers withdrawal
if the regimen ceases.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Bill C said:

On Apr 29, 5:00 pm, Steven Bornfeld <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Thanks, but I only SEEM infantile. I try not to get my medical advice
from Oprah, but things go up and down more than enough in clinical
medicine, let alone faddists. I DID take vitamin E until there was
demonstrated a possible increase in lung cancer risk; I still take a
multivitamin, but cut out the minerals after the increased cardiac risk
of iron supplements for men was demonstrated.

Steve-

It's like everything else. You get the best info you can, and make
informed choices, unless you're getting your info from the idiot box
talking heads, then you get what you deserve.
I know quite a few vegetarian athletes, my daughter in particular,
who aren't careful enough with their diet, regularly, to make sure
they get enough iron. That brings on anemia, verified by bloodwork,
and the anemia and all the symptoms go away, with good
supplementation, also verified by bloodwork, all done at our local
hospital lab, under doc's orders.
I guess the point is that, for 90% of us, or so, who don't eat a high
quality, complete diet, a good multivitamin/mineral makes sense to me.
The other effect is the placebo effect, if you will, of feeling better
about having done something that you believe is healthy. Cheap peace
of mind, and decreased stress with little to no cost or negative
effects.

I look at the prices of those jars, and think of the food
I can buy with that money. A carefully planned course of
vitamins and minerals can cost $5 a day. Then there are
the hours of research to plan the course, the research
to determine which jars actually deliver the goods, and
finally the time to acquire the goods.

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every
bite. My cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our
bodies are organized to thrive on a particular diet and
I conform to my body's requirements. Close attention over
time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

Didn't Ellington say that about music?

Quoted message said:

Remember that everything you eat regularly is habit
forming. Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee? Suppose that somebody takes daily large
doses of vitamin C, then for any number of reasons stops.
He is at risk for developing scurvy. Your body develops
a dependency on a vitamin regimen and suffers withdrawal
if the regimen ceases.

Ehhh....no.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Michael Press said:

Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee?

Light headaches for a day or two. (From 1 espresso + 3 capuccinos per
day for a few years to nothing, overnight.)

Michael Press said:

I look at the prices of those jars, and think of the food
I can buy with that money. A carefully planned course of
vitamins and minerals can cost $5 a day. Then there are
the hours of research to plan the course, the research
to determine which jars actually deliver the goods, and
finally the time to acquire the goods.

I love to cook and you could say the same for cooking a good diet
except add in a whole lot more time to shop at least every other day,
the price of fresh, healthy foods, the time required to plan out a
diet that guarantees that you get what you need, the tracking of the
timing of those meals so that the body can use the amounts you put in,
in the proper quantities, etc...
I used to do all that when I was in the gym all the time, and it was,
and always will be a huge investment in time, discipline in planning
and eating, (you basically have to build your day around 5 or six
small meals), tracking the nutritional value of the foods based on the
cooking method, weighing all the food, tracking all of the calories,
protein, carbs, minerals, and micronutrients, etc...

Quoted message said:

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every
bite.  My cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our
bodies are organized to thrive on a particular diet and
I conform to my body's requirements. Close attention over
time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

I agree that's the best way to go, but most people don't make the
time, and if you aren't tracking everything you do then you don't know
what you're actually getting. Nutrition is a science, and pretty
damned complex if you really want to KNOW what's going on, and into
you.

Quoted message said:

Remember that everything you eat regularly is habit
forming. Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee? Suppose that somebody takes daily large
doses of vitamin C, then for any number of reasons stops.
He is at risk for developing scurvy. Your body develops
a dependency on a vitamin regimen and suffers withdrawal
if the regimen ceases.

Is there a citation for vitamin withdrawl? I'd like to read that. A
basic, decent multivitamin/mineral supplement in a single tablet is a
whole lot less expensive than all the time, effort, and cost of good
healthy food, and the reality is the vast majority of folks don't have
the knowledge, wont make the time and effort, and it's not a priority
in their lives. Staudy after study shows that the trend is towards
more garbage processed "fast" food too.

Quoted message said:

--
Michael Press- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

None of that changes the fact that you are right about what's actually
best, but it's like insisting on abstinence for teenagers, it's not
easy and doesn't work real well. I get really tired of the garbage
that's always trotted out by the anti-vitamin folks that "All you need
to do is eat a balanced diet and you don't need any supplements!". If
guys would keep their pants on we wouldn't need condoms either.
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

None of that changes the fact that you are right about what's actually
best, but it's like insisting on abstinence for teenagers, it's not
easy and doesn't work real well. I get really tired of the garbage
that's always trotted out by the anti-vitamin folks that "All you need
to do is eat a balanced diet and you don't need any supplements!". If
guys would keep their pants on we wouldn't need condoms either.

Bill, I have to disagree with you.

In the first place vitamins work a whole lot better when you receive them in
the food stream rather than in a pill. What's more, a great deal of the
vitamins in pills are in a form difficult for your body to use.

More importantly, you don't need to have every necessary vitamin and mineral
every day and sometimes several times a day. The human body was designed for
long periods of near starvation interspersed with short periods of gluttony.
While it is certainly better to have enough food at the right time with the
proper constituents the difference between that and the normal mixed two or
three meals a day isn't worth mentioning.

We should all realize that the human body doesn't like to go much past 75
years and while it can, it is running down after that and no amount of
vitamins and minerals will lengthen your span significantly.

Nevertheless, as Michael pointed out, all of the vitamins and minerals you
require can be obtained from a pretty normal diet. In some rare cases and
for specific purposes, supplements can be of some small help but the
emphasis has to be on "rare" and "small".

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Bill C said:

Michael Press said:

I look at the prices of those jars, and think of the food
I can buy with that money. A carefully planned course of
vitamins and minerals can cost $5 a day. Then there are
the hours of research to plan the course, the research
to determine which jars actually deliver the goods, and
finally the time to acquire the goods.

I love to cook and you could say the same for cooking a good diet
except add in a whole lot more time to shop at least every other day,
the price of fresh, healthy foods, the time required to plan out a
diet that guarantees that you get what you need, the tracking of the
timing of those meals so that the body can use the amounts you put in,
in the proper quantities, etc...
I used to do all that when I was in the gym all the time, and it was,
and always will be a huge investment in time, discipline in planning
and eating, (you basically have to build your day around 5 or six
small meals), tracking the nutritional value of the foods based on the
cooking method, weighing all the food, tracking all of the calories,
protein, carbs, minerals, and micronutrients, etc...

Quoted message said:

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every
bite.  My cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our
bodies are organized to thrive on a particular diet and
I conform to my body's requirements. Close attention over
time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

I agree that's the best way to go, but most people don't make the
time, and if you aren't tracking everything you do then you don't know
what you're actually getting. Nutrition is a science, and pretty
damned complex if you really want to KNOW what's going on, and into
you.

Quoted message said:

Remember that everything you eat regularly is habit
forming. Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee? Suppose that somebody takes daily large
doses of vitamin C, then for any number of reasons stops.
He is at risk for developing scurvy. Your body develops
a dependency on a vitamin regimen and suffers withdrawal
if the regimen ceases.

Is there a citation for vitamin withdrawl? I'd like to read that. A
basic, decent multivitamin/mineral supplement in a single tablet is a
whole lot less expensive than all the time, effort, and cost of good
healthy food, and the reality is the vast majority of folks don't have
the knowledge, wont make the time and effort, and it's not a priority
in their lives. Staudy after study shows that the trend is towards
more garbage processed "fast" food too.

None of that changes the fact that you are right about what's actually
best, but it's like insisting on abstinence for teenagers, it's not
easy and doesn't work real well. I get really tired of the garbage
that's always trotted out by the anti-vitamin folks that "All you need
to do is eat a balanced diet and you don't need any supplements!". If
guys would keep their pants on we wouldn't need condoms either.

I am not trying to dictate. I do not put in the time you
outlined planning, shopping, and cooking. Regular good meals.
Every meal and every snack is a treat.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

I am not trying to dictate. I do not put in the time you
outlined planning, shopping, and cooking. Regular good meals.
Every meal and every snack is a treat.

I agree with what you're saying, though I get uninspired at times with the things
that I make. I have to go through the books and see if I can find some recipes that
will make me think about trying a new combination of flavors (or an old combination
done in a different way).

It can be something easy or over the top:

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/salmon-passionf.html

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/chicken-beef-st.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Michael Press said:

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every bite. My
cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our bodies are organized to
thrive on a particular diet and I conform to my body's requirements. Close
attention over time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

There goes the andouillette.

Donald Munro said:

Michael Press said:

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every bite.  My
cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our bodies are organized to
thrive on a particular diet and I conform to my body's requirements. Close
attention over time shows me that what tastes good _is_ good.

There goes the andouillette.

I, and at least one pro I know LOVE good pastries, and they taste
great, but I wouldn't call them healthy. Goes for a lot of things. You
can build them into a planned diet though, in moderate amounts quite
nicely.
Bill C

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Bill C <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Donald Munro said:

Michael Press said:

I buy good, clean food, prepare it myself, and enjoy every bite. My
cooking utensils are clean too. I figure our bodies are organized to
thrive on a particular diet and I conform to my body's
requirements. Close attention over time shows me that what tastes
good _is_ good.

There goes the andouillette.

I, and at least one pro I know LOVE good pastries, and they taste
great, but I wouldn't call them healthy. Goes for a lot of things. You
can build them into a planned diet though, in moderate amounts quite
nicely.
Bill C

Andouillette for dessert. Impressive!

In article <[email hidden]>,

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

I am not trying to dictate. I do not put in the time you
outlined planning, shopping, and cooking. Regular good meals.
Every meal and every snack is a treat.

I agree with what you're saying, though I get uninspired at times with the things
that I make. I have to go through the books and see if I can find some recipes that
will make me think about trying a new combination of flavors (or an old combination
done in a different way).

It can be something easy or over the top:

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/salmon-passionf.html

Neat. I like the way he thinks.

Quoted message said:

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/chicken-beef-st.html

Equal masses of onion and potato in a mass of water equal
to double the mass of the veg. Goodly amount of salt, and
puree when tender. I do not hesitate to serve this in any setting.

--
Michael Press

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:57:29 -0700, Michael Press <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Remember that everything you eat regularly is habit
forming. Anybody here notice what happens when you stop
drinking coffee? Suppose that somebody takes daily large
doses of vitamin C, then for any number of reasons stops.
He is at risk for developing scurvy. Your body develops
a dependency on a vitamin regimen and suffers withdrawal
if the regimen ceases.

It's impossible to compare vitamins to psychoactive chemicals, like
caffeine. Caffeine mimics an endogenous neurotransmitter which has
receptor sites in specific neurons. Excessive caffeine use creates
changes in the functioning and number of these receptor sites. No
such process exists for vitamins.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

I am not trying to dictate. I do not put in the time you
outlined planning, shopping, and cooking. Regular good meals.
Every meal and every snack is a treat.

I agree with what you're saying, though I get uninspired at times with
the things that I make. I have to go through the books and see if I can find
some recipes that will make me think about trying a new combination of flavors
(or an old combination done in a different way).

It can be something easy or over the top:

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/salmon-passionf.html

Neat. I like the way he thinks.

She, actually. I like that one a lot, as it takes a couple of very unexpected
turns. There's quite a bit of interesting stuff on that site.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.playingwithfireandwater.com/foodplay/2008/04/chicken-beef-st.html

Equal masses of onion and potato in a mass of water equal
to double the mass of the veg. Goodly amount of salt, and
puree when tender. I do not hesitate to serve this in any setting.

I've always heard about double frying potatoes but wasn't sure about the temps
involved - now I am. I have a bunch of rendered duck fat that I've collected that I
may use to do the double fried potatoes with. Should be good...

--
tanx,
Howard

Whatever happened to
Leon Trotsky?
He got an icepick
That made his ears burn.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On May 2, 8:06 am, Bill C <[email hidden]> wrote:

Don't know how much baking any of you do, but this is an incredible
book. Full of great recipes, tips, and stories. Good healthy stuff
too!

http://tinyurl.com/62pywe

Country Baking: Simple Home Baking with Wholesome Grains and the Pick
of the Harvest
by Ken Haedrich

About this title: Ken Haedrich's creative, delicious, and easy-to-
follow recipes celebrate the essence of country baking -- simplicity,
freshness, and regional flavors. Store-bought breads will be history
when bakers learn the simple steps for making Farm-Style Whole Wheat
Bread and Soft Oatmeal Sandwich Bread. Mornings are special with
Toasted Almond Pear Muffins, and coffee time is paradise with a warm
slice of Pecan Streusel Coffee Cake. Big Broccoli Calzones and Deep-
Dish Sausage and Shrimp Pie make hearty meals -- but remember to leave
room for a mouthwatering dessert such as Peaches and Cream Pie,
Maple ...

He's just an average guy living in the country in NH. Someone I'd love
to meet, and BS with. Just discovered he's written a bunch of others
too. The book reads the way Yankee magazine used to.
Copies are cheap through Abebooks.com who I also love, and they do
some no shipping stuff too, just got to search both shipping, and free
shipping lists to decide on the best deal though. I buy tons of stuff
through them and have had a grand total of one mix-up, with one book
dealer which they helped fix, as part of one order.
Bill C