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Re: Dental Profession Logic Re: Amalgam

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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14 June 2004
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carabelli
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  1. "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    We know definitively that a certain percentage of the population


    experiences

    Quoted message said:

    significant health problems due to amalgams. We also know that not
    everyone - indeed, most people - either do not react at all, do not have
    enough amalgam to react, are not genetically predisposed to react, or
    eventually experience illnesses that simply cannot definitively be linked


    to

    Quoted message said:

    amalgam. It cannot be proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that amalgams
    cause this or that, but there is an abundance of evidence (both clinical


    and

    Quoted message said:

    anecdotal) that amalgam is dangerous in at least some people.

    Anti-amalgam position: since there is no way of knowing whether


    individuals

    Quoted message said:

    will react negatively to amalgam, and the health implications are so
    serious, amalgams should not be used at all, especially considering that
    there are suitable alternatives to amalgam. In other words, we should err


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the side of caution, given that there is, at the very least, reasonable
    doubt. We have a moral obligation not to roll the dice with people's


    health.

    Quoted message said:

    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    carabelli

  2. "carabelli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    carabelli


    or "peanut butter"

    T

  3. ta said:

    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than any
    alternatives?

    I'll for the moment make the dubious assumption that that is a sincere
    question. The utility of amalgam is significant, but not identical to
    any other material. As such, there are a number of applications that
    (were amalgam not available) the alternative would either be inferior in
    quality, more expensive, or both.
    This does not mean there are no alternatives--it just means there will
    be a price to pay somewhere--and it should be acknowledged.

    Steve

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY

  4. "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote ............

    Quoted message said:

    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than any
    alternatives?

    No, it is that there are few, if any, medical/dental treatments that do not
    involve some element of risk.

    Is your argument that eliminating risks to the few is worth denying benefits
    to the many?

    carabelli

  5. carabelli said:

    "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    We know definitively that a certain percentage of the population
    experiences significant health problems due to amalgams. We also
    know that not everyone - indeed, most people - either do not react
    at all, do not have enough amalgam to react, are not genetically
    predisposed to react, or eventually experience illnesses that simply
    cannot definitively be linked to amalgam. It cannot be proved beyond
    any shadow of a doubt that amalgams cause this or that, but there is
    an abundance of evidence (both clinical and anecdotal) that amalgam
    is dangerous in at least some people.

    Anti-amalgam position: since there is no way of knowing whether
    individuals will react negatively to amalgam, and the health
    implications are so serious, amalgams should not be used at all,
    especially considering that there are suitable alternatives to
    amalgam. In other words, we should err on the side of caution, given
    that there is, at the very least, reasonable doubt. We have a moral
    obligation not to roll the dice with people's health.

    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    carabelli

    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than any
    alternatives?

  6. Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:
    ta said:

    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than
    any alternatives?

    I'll for the moment make the dubious assumption that that is a sincere
    question.

    Why is it dubious? It was a perfectly sincere question; that's how I
    interepreted his question. Perhaps you are projecting.

    Quoted message said:

    The utility of amalgam is significant, but not identical to
    any other material. As such, there are a number of applications that
    (were amalgam not available) the alternative would either be inferior
    in quality, more expensive, or both.

    Fair enough.

    Quoted message said:

    This does not mean there are no alternatives--it just means there will
    be a price to pay somewhere--and it should be acknowledged.

    No doubt. But when judging the overall utility of each option, we must
    certainly weigh the concern for human health more heavily than their cost
    and longevity, wouldn't you think? (This is assuming that composites are not
    as high quality as amalgam, which is surely debatable). The question is,
    would the price to pay be worth the ensuing benefits. What kind of price tag
    can we put on human suffering and ill health?

    Quoted message said:

    Steve

  7. Quoted message said:


    "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    We know definitively that a certain percentage of the population


    experiences

    Quoted message said:

    significant health problems due to amalgams. We also know that not
    everyone - indeed, most people - either do not react at all, do not have
    enough amalgam to react, are not genetically predisposed to react, or
    eventually experience illnesses that simply cannot definitively be linked


    to

    Quoted message said:

    amalgam. It cannot be proved beyond any shadow of a doubt that amalgams
    cause this or that, but there is an abundance of evidence (both clinical


    and

    Quoted message said:

    anecdotal) that amalgam is dangerous in at least some people.

    Anti-amalgam position: since there is no way of knowing whether


    individuals

    Quoted message said:

    will react negatively to amalgam, and the health implications are so
    serious, amalgams should not be used at all, especially considering that
    there are suitable alternatives to amalgam. In other words, we should err


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the side of caution, given that there is, at the very least, reasonable
    doubt. We have a moral obligation not to roll the dice with people's


    health.

    Quoted message said:

    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    Yes, or Aspartame, Fluoride, etc

    Quoted message said:


    carabelli

  8. ta said:
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS said:
    ta said:


    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than
    any alternatives?

    I'll for the moment make the dubious assumption that that is a sincere
    question.

    Why is it dubious? It was a perfectly sincere question; that's how I
    interepreted his question. Perhaps you are projecting.

    I'm willing to suspend my disbelief.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    The utility of amalgam is significant, but not identical to
    any other material. As such, there are a number of applications that
    (were amalgam not available) the alternative would either be inferior
    in quality, more expensive, or both.

    Fair enough.

    Quoted message said:

    This does not mean there are no alternatives--it just means there will
    be a price to pay somewhere--and it should be acknowledged.

    No doubt. But when judging the overall utility of each option, we must
    certainly weigh the concern for human health more heavily than their cost
    and longevity, wouldn't you think? (This is assuming that composites are not
    as high quality as amalgam, which is surely debatable). The question is,
    would the price to pay be worth the ensuing benefits. What kind of price tag
    can we put on human suffering and ill health?

    I agree with this 100%.

    Steve

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Steve

    --
    Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
    http://www.dentaltwins.com
    Brooklyn, NY

  9. Sugar? Salt? Dairy products? Latex? MSG? Phenylalanine? Nuts? Seafood?

    Did I say NUTS??

    Fawks

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Anti-amalgam position: since there is no way of knowing whether


    individuals

    Quoted message said:

    will react negatively to amalgam, and the health implications are so
    serious, amalgams should not be used at all, especially considering that
    there are suitable alternatives to amalgam. In other words, we should err


    on

    Quoted message said:

    the side of caution, given that there is, at the very least, reasonable
    doubt. We have a moral obligation not to roll the dice with people's


    health.

    Quoted message said:

    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    carabelli

  10. That's a pretty weak argument.

    JMHO,
    Fawks

    BTW, I haven't used amalgam since 1985, but in my 25 years of practice I
    have not seen a single case of any health issue relating to amalgam.

    My argument is that the benefits of amalgam use are far

    Quoted message said:

    outweighed by their risks.

  11. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Dental Profession Logic Re: Amalgam
    From: "carabelli" [email hidden]
    Date: 6/14/2004 1:03 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "ta" <[email hidden]> wrote ............

    Quoted message said:

    Is your argument that the overall utility of amalgam is greater than any
    alternatives?

    No, it is that there are few, if any, medical/dental treatments that do not
    involve some element of risk.

    Is your argument that eliminating risks to the few is worth denying benefits
    to the many?

    carabelli

    You have no idea *IF* it is a few. There are MANY MANY unanswered health
    problems. If one doesn't look at the teeth it is for sure they will NOT find
    them to be the problem, then there is the below.

    http://www.maineenvironment.org/merc_red_act.htm

    http://www.mercurypolicy.org

    http://www.mercurypolicy.org/exposure/documents/model_state_leg.pdf

    That's MORE that enough reason.

    Jan

  12. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Dental Profession Logic Re: Amalgam
    From: Steven Fawks [email hidden]
    Date: 6/15/2004 8:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    That's a pretty weak argument.

    JMHO,
    Fawks

    BTW, I haven't used amalgam since 1985, but in my 25 years of practice I
    have not seen a single case of any health issue relating to amalgam.

    My argument is that the benefits of amalgam use are far

    Quoted message said:

    outweighed by their risks.

    To remain in Ye Good Ole Boy Club.

    Your argument doesn't fly. See last paragraph.

    http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html

    Mercury linked to heart disease
    ROME, ITALY. Medical researchers at the Catholic University in Rome report that
    patients with congestive heart failure (idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy or
    IDCM) have vastly elevated concentrations of mercury and antimony in their
    heart tissue. They compared trace element concentrations in biopsy samples from
    the left ventricle among patients with IDCM and patients with valvular
    disorders or no heart disease at all. The IDCM patients had mercury
    concentrations 22,000 times higher than in the controls. Antimony
    concentrations were 12,000 times higher and silver, gold, chromium and arsenic
    levels were also highly elevated. Holter monitoring revealed frequent ectopic
    (premature) beats in all the IDCM patients and ventricular tachycardias in six
    of the 13 patients. None of the patients had had occupational exposure to the
    trace elements. Researchers at the University of Calgary point out that dental
    amalgams would be the most likely source of the mercury.
    Frustaci, Andrea, et al. Marked elevation of myocardial trace elements in
    idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy compared with secondary cardiac dysfunction.
    Journal of the American College of Cardiology, Vol. 33, May 1999, pp. 1578-83
    [32 references]
    Lorscheider, Fritz and Vimy, Murray. Mercury and idiopathic dilated
    cardiomyopathy. Journal of the American College of Cardiology, Vol. 35, March
    1, 2000, p. 819 (letter to the editor)

    Trigeminal neuralgia linked to amalgam fillings
    JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA. Dr. William Cheshire, a physician at the Mayo Clinic,
    reports on a case where a woman's trigeminal neuralgia (tic douloureux) was
    traced to a galvanic reaction between an amalgam filling and an adjacent
    gold-alloy crown. Consumption of tomatoes and other acidic foods produced
    intense jolts described as being like those of an "electrical battery". The
    jolts in turn resulted in excruciating pain in the trigeminal nerve. Replacing
    the amalgam filling with a composite resolved the problem. Dr. Cheshire points
    out that dissimilar metals in contact with saliva can form a galvanic cell
    which can generate electrical currents with several hundred millivolts of
    potential. He points out that many patients with trigeminal neuralgia describe
    their pain in terms of "electrical" jolts and concludes that his patient's
    neuralgia may well have been triggered by the galvanic reaction between the
    amalgam filling and the gold crown.
    Cheshire, William P., Jr. The shocking tooth about trigeminal neuralgia. New
    England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 342, June 29, 2000, p. 2003 (correspondence)

    Dental alloys affect cellular energy production
    NOTE: We usually do not report test tube or animal experiments, but thought we
    would make an exception in this case. The findings that commonly used dental
    alloys may interrupt the normal function of human cells is a first and could
    have wide-ranging effects.

    BIRMINGHAM, ALABAMA. Although nickel is known to be carcinogenic in humans it
    is still widely used in certain dental alloys. Researchers at the University of
    Alabama now report that other components of dental alloys (beryllium, chromium,
    and molybdenum) as well as nickel affect the very basic function of human cells
    - the production of energy (ATP). ATP is produced in the mitochondria of cells
    and involves highly oxidative processes. It is becoming increasingly clear that
    abnormalities in the mitochondrial processes are important causes of human
    disease. Some researchers believe that a slowing down of these processes
    actually heralds the very first stage in the proliferation of abnormal cells
    and cancer.
    The Alabama researchers exposed cultures of human gingival (gum) cells to
    solutions of nickel, beryllium, chromium (tri- and hexavalent) and molybdenum
    (hexavalent) for periods of 24 and 72 hours. They then measured the energy
    production and oxygen consumption of the cells' mitochondria in the various
    solutions. Cells in contact with nickel or hexavalent chromium were most
    affected and showed decreased ATP (energy) production as well as a decrease in
    oxygen consumption. The effects of beryllium, molybdenum, and trivalent
    chromium were similar, but less pronounced. The researchers conclude that their
    findings may be the first indication that some components of common dental
    alloys may be detrimental to human health. They urge further research to
    establish possible synergisms between mixtures of these different metals on
    mitochondrial energy production. [54 references]
    Messer, R.L.W., et al. An investigation of fibroblast mitochondria enzyme
    activity and respiration in response to metallic ions released from dental
    alloys. J Biomed Mater Res, Vol. 50, 2000, pp. 598- 604

    Dental amalgams come under fire - again!
    TAURANGA, NEW ZEALAND. The New Zealand Ministry of Health is reviewing its
    policy on the use of mercury-containing amalgams for tooth fillings. This
    review comes hard on the heels of a precautionary advice from the UK Department
    of Health which warns pregnant women not to have amalgam fillings installed.
    Dr. Mike Godfrey, a leading environmental physician, points out that several
    major amalgam manufacturers have issued Material Safety Data Sheets and
    Directions for Use which clearly warns of the many dangers of amalgam fillings.
    Among the restrictions - amalgam fillings should not be used next to fillings
    or crowns containing other metals, they should not be used under crowns, they
    should not be used in patients with kidney disease, in pregnant women or in
    children aged six years or younger. The manufacturers also warn that mercury
    vapours from amalgam fillings can induce psychiatric symptoms in extremely low
    concentrations. Depression, mental deterioration, and irritability are among
    the symptoms listed. Amalagam fillings are banned in Sweden and Health Canada
    has proposed a limit of one (two surfaces) amalgam fillings in a child and four
    (eight surfaces) in an adult. Dr. Godfrey points out that his chronic fatigue
    syndrome patients have an average of 15 amalgam fillings each and exhibit many
    of the symptoms that the amalgam manufacturers are warning against.
    Godfrey, M.E. and Feek, Colin. Dental amalgam. New Zealand Medical Journal,
    Vol. 111, August 28, 1998, p. 326 (letters to the editor)

    Depression and amalgam fillings
    FORT COLLINS, COLORADO. There is some evidence that people with dental amalgam
    fillings are more likely to suffer from depression than are people without such
    fillings. Now researchers at the Rocky Mountain Research Institute report that
    removal of amalgam fillings can markedly improve the symptoms of
    manic-depressive illness (bipolar disorder). Their study involved 20 patients
    who had been diagnosed with manic-depressive illness. All the patients had
    amalgam fillings (an average of 10 fillings each). The concentration of mercury
    in the mouth was measured at the start of the study and was found to increase
    almost 300 per cent after chewing gum for 10 minutes. Other research has shown
    that 75 per cent or more of the mercury vapor released by chewing is inhaled
    into the lungs where it enters the blood stream and subsequently passes into
    the brain. Eleven of the patients were assigned to have all their mercury
    fillings removed and were also given multi-vitamins and antioxidants to help
    chelate and remove the mercury released during the dental work. The remaining
    nine patients had a sealant placed over their fillings and were told that this
    sealant would prevent mercury from being released from their fillings. In
    actual fact there was no evidence that it would do so. The control group
    patients were given a supplemental vitamin and mineral tablet. The patients all
    completed various questionnaires designed to evaluate their mental health
    before and six to eight months after treatment. It was very clear that the
    patients who had had their amalgam fillings removed had improved very
    significantly in such important parameters as anxiety, depression, paranoia,
    hostility, and obsessive compulsive behaviour. Some of the patients were able
    to discontinue their lithium medication after amalgam removal. The researchers
    caution that their study was relatively small and urge large scale clinical
    trials to validate their findings.
    Siblerud, Robert L., et al. Psychometric evidence that dental amalgam mercury
    may be an etiological factor in manic depression. Journal of Orthomolecular
    Medicine, Vol. 13, No. 1, First Quarter 1998, pp. 31- 40

    Amalgam fillings may damage kidneys.
    NEWSBRIEF. Amalgam fillings and skin-lightening creams both contain significant
    amounts of mercury. Researchers at the King Faisal Hospital in Riyadh, Saudi
    Arabia have just completed a study aimed at determining whether the mercury
    actually gets into the blood stream. The study involved 225 women (aged 17 to
    58 years) who had their urine measured for mercury, creatinine, urea, uric
    acid, phosphorus, magnesium, calcium, and glucose. The urinary mercury level
    varied between 0 and 204.8 micrograms per liter and was directly related to the
    number of dental amalgam fillings present in the women's mouths. The
    researchers conclude that chronic exposure to mercury may be associated with
    deterioration of renal (kidney) function.
    Biometals, Vol. 10, October 1997, pp. 315-23

    Amalgam fillings and hearing loss
    FORT COLLINS, COLORADO. The leaching of toxic mercury from amalgam fillings has
    been implicated in hearing loss. Mercury toxicity has also been linked to
    multiple sclerosis (MS). It is believed that the toxic effects of mercury cause
    damage to the blood brain barrier, demyelination (damage to the nerves' myelin
    sheaths) and slowing of the nerve conduction velocity. Now researchers at the
    Rocky Mountain Research Institute provide convincing proof that dental amalgam
    fillings may be responsible for the hearing loss often experienced by multiple
    sclerosis patients. Their experiment involved seven women aged 32-46 years who
    had been diagnosed with MS. The women underwent a standard hearing test in a
    sound booth and then had all their amalgam fillings replaced with composites.
    Six to eight months later they were again given the hearing test. Six of the
    seven patients had significantly improved hearing in the right ear and five of
    the seven showed improvement in the left ear. Overall, hearing improved an
    average of eight decibels. The researchers conclude that amalgam fillings may
    be a significant factor in hearing loss experienced by MS patients and could be
    a factor in hearing loss in other people as well.
    Siblerud, Robert L. and Kienholz, Eldon. Evidence that mercury from dental
    amalgam may cause hearing loss in multiple sclerosis patients. Journal of
    Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 12, No. 4, Fourth Quarter, 1997, pp. 240-44

    Chronic mercury poisoning is widespread
    HILLEROED, DENMARK. A Danish dentist, Dr. H. Lichtenberg, reports that most of
    his patients with amalgam fillings suffer from chronic mercury poisoning. Dr.
    Lichtenberg measured the actual concentration of mercury vapour in the mouths
    of his patients and found that it varied between 3 micrograms of mercury vapour
    per cubic meter of air and 329 mcg/m3 with an average of 54.6 mcg/m3. This
    compares to a maximum permitted level in the workplace of 50 mcg/m3 for people
    working eight hours a day five days a week. NOTE: This level applies to
    Denmark; the maximum level permitted in Switzerland is 10 mcg/m3 and in the USA
    it is 100 mcg/m3. A recent conference in Canada proposed a Tolerable Daily
    Intake (TDI) for mercury vapour of 0.014 mcg/kg of body weight per day; this
    corresponds to a maximum tolerable daily intake of 1.0 mcg for a person
    weighing 70 kilograms. Most of Dr. Lichtenberg's patients were thus exposed to
    50 times the TDI. More than half of Dr. Lichtenberg's patients exhibited one or
    more of the following symptoms of chronic mercury poisoning - fatigue, poor
    concentration, poor memory, bloating, joint pain, muscle fatigue, cold hands
    and feet, irritability, and headache. Mercury poisoning from dental fillings
    has also been implicated in Alzheimer's disease and heart disease.
    Lichtenberg, H. Mercury vapour in the oral cavity in relation to number of
    amalgam surfaces and the classic symptoms of chronic mercury poisoning. Journal
    of Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 11, No. 2, Second Quarter 1996, pp. 87-94

    Mercury linked to heart disease
    HELSINKI, FINLAND. Researchers at the University of Kuopio in Finland have just
    completed a major study which clearly implicates mercury as a major cause of
    heart attacks and other coronary and cardiovascular diseases. The researchers
    set out to discover why men in Eastern Finland who eat lots of locally caught
    fish have an exceptionally high mortality from cardiovascular disease. Their
    conclusion was that the non-fatty freshwater fish eaten in Eastern Finland
    contains large amounts of mercury. The researchers discovered that men who had
    a high fish consumption not only had a high mercury content in their hair and
    urine, but also had a two-fold higher risk of having a heart attack and a
    three-fold higher risk of dying from heart disease than did men with a lower
    content of mercury in their hair. Men who ate fatty, ocean-caught fish such as
    salmon, herring, and tuna did not have an increased level of mercury in their
    hair. The researchers believe that mercury promotes heart disease in several
    ways: mercury promotes free radical generation; it inactivates the body's
    natural antioxidant glutathione; and it binds with selenium thus making it
    unavailable as an antioxidant and component of glutathione peroxidase. All
    these mechanisms would lead to an increased level of lipid peroxidation and
    subsequent heart disease. The researchers also point out that earlier studies
    have discovered a clear correlation between the number of amalgam tooth
    fillings and the risk of heart attack. Selenium and vitamin E have both been
    found to have a protective effect against mercury toxicity.
    Salonen, Jukka T. et al. Intake of mercury from fish, lipid peroxidation, and
    the risk of myocardial infarction and coronary, cardiovascular, and any death
    in Eastern Finnish men. Circulation, Vol. 91, No. 3, February 1, 1995, pp.
    645-55

    Peer of the Realm questions use of amalgam fillings
    LONDON, ENGLAND. Lord Baldwin, joint chairman of the British Parliamentary
    Group for Alternative and Complementary Medicine, is questioning the safety of
    amalgam dental fillings. In a letter published in the British Medical Journal
    Lord Baldwin asserts that it is up to the dental profession to prove that
    amalgam fillings are safe and, in Lord Baldwin's opinion, this they have not
    done. To point to the fact that amalgam fillings have been used for a hundred
    years is not a proof of safety anymore than it is to claim that tobacco smoking
    must be safe because people have been doing it for a long time, says Lord
    Baldwin.
    Baldwin, E.A.A. Controlled trials of dental amalgam are needed. British Medical
    Journal, Vol. 309, October 29, 1994, p. 1161

    Jan

  13. Quoted message said:

    From: "carabelli" [email hidden]
    Date: 6/14/2004 10:54 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    Try substituting the word vaccines for amalgam.

    carabelli

    Nope.

    http://www.geocities.com/cbpdoc/skeptictricks.html

    Jan

  14. Subject: Re: Dental Profession Logic Re: Amalgam

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: Steven Fawks [email hidden]
    Date: 6/15/2004 8:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    That's a pretty weak argument.

    JMHO,
    Fawks

    BTW, I haven't used amalgam since 1985, but in my 25 years of practice I
    have not seen a single case of any health issue relating to amalgam.

    My argument is that the benefits of amalgam use are far

    Quoted message said:

    outweighed by their risks.

    To remain in Ye Good Ole Boy Club.

    Your argument doesn't fly. See last paragraph.

    Results 1 - 20 of about 444 English messages for jan drew more toxic than
    mercury. (3.51 seconds) >>

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