Re: Dave's Story background...

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 2:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A very gracious post but the point is that disease can often be

erradicated

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

by eating herbs
and supplements.

perhaps in some cases

Quoted message said:

The real point is that the ultimate mission is to restore
the immune system
so that medications are no longer

again...perhaps in some cases...

however...HOW successful would you have been...if you had continued to
smoke??....so was it the herbs and supplements?? or the lifestyle change??

I view it like this, have you ever known of anybody who got rid of
emphysema by a lifestyle
change? The problem that we see is a buildup of unwanted "things" that allow
disease to
manifest. Lifestyle change is always a given when we want to restore health.
To do things that
aggrevate a condition is just not very smart.

Quoted message said:

likely a combination.

Of course.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you follow
what I have accomplished in truth, I have performed a healing miracle (on
muyself). It may or

I do believe in miracles....however..in YOUR cases..the single BEST thing

you

Quoted message said:

did for YOURSELF was to stop smoking!!!
I cannot understand why you refuse to give yourself credit for that!!! It

is

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the SINGLE worst thing one can do for their health..thus...stopping is the
FIRST best thing one can do...

Quitting the smoking of 50 cigarettes a day was the proudest accomplishment
of my life, to
that time. April 8, 1999.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

must not take any supplements because
they interfere with the medications

this is true...

however

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and that I must do only as he said.

that is [censored] (his ...not yours!!)

none of us are gods...not even docs...

Quoted message said:

was eating ginseng and my lungs function had been restored. Not as
gracious as you, Hawki!

Better to say your lung function was much much better...again...was it the
smoking cessation?? or the ginseng?? my bet would be that ginseng WITHOUT
smoking cessation and your story would be far far different...and I think

you

Quoted message said:

would agree...

Again, quitting smoking can't cure, just stop the progression.

Quoted message said:

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When the heart specialist interviewed me, I told him that I took
supplements. He said to me, "either its my way, or the highway." I

haven't

Quoted message said:

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told him that I no longer take his

again...not a nice approach..and I don't blame you for being

offended...BTW

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cardiac guys tend to be about the worst!!!

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His last letter to my
holistic physician says, Blood pressure
120/76, EKG normal. Medications remain unchanged. I'm very pleased with

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

man's progress.

fine...let him think he is the answer!!! who cares?? this way he will

STILL

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be your doc if you (god forbid) get into a jam that your holistic guy

cannot

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fix...sorta like not burning your bridges??

I gotta admit I do not always follow doc's orders ..and I change dosages a
tad..nope..my doc doesn't like it either!!!

Quoted message said:

Here we
see naturopaths instead, and they are not
granted anywhere near the powers of physicans.

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

standardized...some

Quoted message said:

are great..but many are really charlatans..

they shouldn't be given the power of physicians...until their training and
education is equitable and standardized...actually Calif is starting

that...

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you notice I never question chiros...why?? cuz I respect their education

and

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they are licensed and credentialed...however...tell me about a chiro with

a

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"cure" for diabetes and you will hear me yell..."quack"...luckily I have
encountered ONLY reputable and good chiros...personally we use one (spouse

and

Quoted message said:

I)..and professionally I never hesitated to recommend patients see the

ones I

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trusted....with current insurance..we pay cash for chiro..but it is well

worth

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the relief our guy can give us..

massage??? ahhhhhh....now THAT is healthy stuff!!

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

There are always a number of components involved in restoring our health. I
have not taken any
ginseng for nearly three months now because it did its job and I'm now doing
other stuff that will do what I need next.

The cavitation surgery will complete a major requirement for the restoration
of my health. Some holistic practitioners who have a lot of experience with
this condition tell me that these cavitations
were likely responsible for more of my suffering than the emphysema. I will
know soon.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 3:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I view it like this, have you ever known of anybody who got rid of
emphysema by a lifestyle
change? The problem that we see i

no....and I really don't accept that your emphysema is gone...just that you are
less symptomatic...and that is indeed due to not smoking

it is pretty difficult to ascertain that emphysema is "gone" or "cured"...as
once the lung's architecture (sp?) has been damaged by years of heavy
smoking...it is unlikely that a cure is possible..

however...without the added burden (and increase in damage) that occurred when
you stopped...it is indeed very possible that you feel so much better that you
believe that your lungs are perfect again...that is unlikely

what you describe as a chronic lung infection..which you feel is due to
cavitations (not saying that is not possible)..is just as likely to be chronic
bronchitis which is a longterm result of smoking...even after one stops

but I do wish you well with your jaws...

Quoted message said:

Lifestyle change is always a given when we want to restore health.
To do things that
aggrevate a condition is just not very smart.

absoluttttellly....

Quoted message said:

Quitting the smoking of 50 cigarettes a day was the proudest accomplishment
of my life, to
that time. April 8, 1999.

as it should be....they say smoking addiction is worse than heroin....

Quoted message said:

Again, quitting smoking can't cure, just stop the progression.

again....unless one open's up your lungs...cure is a relative term...

good luck

hawki.....

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 3:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I view it like this, have you ever known of anybody who got rid of
emphysema by a lifestyle
change? The problem that we see i

no....and I really don't accept that your emphysema is gone...just that

you are

Quoted message said:

less symptomatic...and that is indeed due to not smoking

it is pretty difficult to ascertain that emphysema is "gone" or

"cured"...as

Quoted message said:

once the lung's architecture (sp?) has been damaged by years of heavy
smoking...it is unlikely that a cure is possible..

however...without the added burden (and increase in damage) that occurred

when

Quoted message said:

you stopped...it is indeed very possible that you feel so much better that

you

Quoted message said:

believe that your lungs are perfect again...that is unlikely

what you describe as a chronic lung infection..which you feel is due to
cavitations (not saying that is not possible)..is just as likely to be

chronic

Quoted message said:

bronchitis which is a longterm result of smoking...even after one stops

but I do wish you well with your jaws...

Quoted message said:

Lifestyle change is always a given when we want to restore health.
To do things that
aggrevate a condition is just not very smart.

absoluttttellly....

Quoted message said:

Quitting the smoking of 50 cigarettes a day was the proudest

accomplishment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of my life, to
that time. April 8, 1999.

as it should be....they say smoking addiction is worse than heroin....

Quoted message said:

Again, quitting smoking can't cure, just stop the progression.

again....unless one open's up your lungs...cure is a relative term...

good luck

hawki.....

Thanks

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 5:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

Thanks

you are welcome...and I meant it sincerely

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 2:48 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

At last a decent discussion, however a few things said are bunk.

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
standardized..

As is organized medicine teaching only.

Quoted message said:

they shouldn't be given the power of physicians...until their training and

Quoted message said:

education is equitable and standardized..

As in do it organized medicine's way.

This is a huge problem that most organized medicine members have wrong.

Jan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Hawki63 said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 3:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I view it like this, have you ever known of anybody who got rid of
emphysema by a lifestyle
change? The problem that we see i

no....and I really don't accept that your emphysema is gone...just
that you are less symptomatic...and that is indeed due to not smoking

it is pretty difficult to ascertain that emphysema is "gone" or "cured"...as
once the lung's architecture (sp?) has been damaged by years of heavy
smoking...it is unlikely that a cure is possible..

"Of course, an autopsy would tell us a lot more."

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/18/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At last a decent discussion, however a few things said are bunk.

geez janny...why don't you just shut up..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
standardized..

they don't...that is a fact

Quoted message said:

As is organized medicine teaching only.

no....but at least one cannot call oneself a "doctor" without specific
credentials and educational preparation...and licensure..

Quoted message said:

they shouldn't be given the power of physicians...until their training and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

education is equitable and standardized..

Quoted message said:

As in do it organized medicine's way.

no....that means get the credibility and then we shall talk..

Quoted message said:

This is a huge problem that most organized medicine members have wrong.

Jan

this is a huge problem that folks like Janster have wrong....

education,,credentials..and licensure ensures the consumer at least some
protection

keeps the hulda quacks from promising the moon..and not even knowing that stars
exist

as I said...Calif IS in the process of credentialing/licensing etc
naturopaths...the legitimate ones of course..

those that obtain their "knowledge" from mail order,,,need not apply

sorry Janster...again...how about we NOT require airplane pilots to be
licensed..ie certified....same thing in my book...

anyone who has nothing to hide...will not hide...

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 4:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: "Dave Wickware" [email hidden]
Date: 5/18/2004 3:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I view it like this, have you ever known of anybody who got rid of
emphysema by a lifestyle
change? The problem that we see i

no....and I really don't accept that your emphysema is gone...just that

you are

Quoted message said:

less symptomatic...and that is indeed due to not smoking

it is pretty difficult to ascertain that emphysema is "gone" or

"cured"...as

Quoted message said:

once the lung's architecture (sp?) has been damaged by years of heavy
smoking...it is unlikely that a cure is possible..

however...without the added burden (and increase in damage) that occurred

when

Quoted message said:

you stopped...it is indeed very possible that you feel so much better that

you

Quoted message said:

believe that your lungs are perfect again...that is unlikely

what you describe as a chronic lung infection..which you feel is due to
cavitations (not saying that is not possible)..is just as likely to be

chronic

Quoted message said:

bronchitis which is a longterm result of smoking...even after one stops

but I do wish you well with your jaws...

Quoted message said:

Lifestyle change is always a given when we want to restore health.
To do things that
aggrevate a condition is just not very smart.

absoluttttellly....

Quoted message said:

Quitting the smoking of 50 cigarettes a day was the proudest

accomplishment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of my life, to
that time. April 8, 1999.

as it should be....they say smoking addiction is worse than heroin....

Quoted message said:

Again, quitting smoking can't cure, just stop the progression.

again....unless one open's up your lungs...cure is a relative term...

good luck

hawki.....

Thanks

Indeed and hats off to hawki!!!

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/18/2004 8:11 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/18/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At last a decent discussion, however a few things said are bunk.

geez janny...why don't you just shut up..

Geez, you don't like compliments???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

standardized..

they don't...that is a fact

No, it is not.

http://www.naturopathic.org/licensure/education.html

Education of a Naturopath
A Licensed naturopathic physician (N.D.) attends a four-year graduate level
naturopathic medical school and is educated in all of the same basic sciences
as an M.D. but also studies holistic and nontoxic approaches to therapy with a
strong emphasis on disease prevention and optimizing wellness. In addition to a
standard medical curriculum, the naturopathic physician is required to complete
four years of training in clinical nutrition, acupuncture, homeopathic
medicine, botanical medicine, psychology, and counseling (to encourage people
to make lifestyle changes in support of their personal health). A naturopathic
physician takes rigorous professional board exams so that he or she may be
licensed by a state or jurisdiction as a primary care general practice
physician. Additional information on naturopathic schools can be found at
http://www.aanmc.org/ that would take care of it.

Quoted message said:

As is organized medicine teaching only.

Quoted message said:

no....but at least one cannot call oneself a "doctor" without specific
credentials and educational preparation...and licensure..

Not in question.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they shouldn't be given the power of physicians...until their training and

Quoted message said:

> education is equitable and standardized..

Quoted message said:

As in do it organized medicine's way.

Quoted message said:

no....that means get the credibility and then we shall talk..

See above.

Quoted message said:

This is a huge problem that most organized medicine members have wrong.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jan

Quoted message said:

this is a huge problem that folks like Janster have wrong....

See above.

Quoted message said:

education,,credentials..and licensure ensures the consumer at least some
protection

Not in question.

Quoted message said:

keeps the hulda

OOOOps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,diversion.

Quoted message said:

as I said...Calif IS in the process of credentialing/licensing etc
naturopaths...the legitimate ones of course..

Brush up a bit. Not just California.

http://www.chiroeco.com/news/wsj-more-naturopaths.html

Quoted message said:

those that obtain their "knowledge" from mail order,,,need not apply

Not in question. Diversion.

Quoted message said:

sorry Janster...again...how about we NOT require airplane pilots to be
licensed..ie certified....same thing in my book...

Your book is outdated.

Quoted message said:

anyone who has nothing to hide...will not hide...

You are having a terrible time sticking to the subject,,,,,,,,,,,,which is:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

standardized..

Sorry, you are wrong, just like I said, and your added insults and diversions
doesn't say much for an *educated* nurse.

Get over yourself, you aren't any better than others.

Each person has God given talents, and your [censored] and know it all attitude
is a shame for the nursing profession. I have a sister-in-law who is a nurse,
Mom's care giver is a nurse, both warm loving people who look for the best in
everyone.

The opposite of you.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/18/2004 10:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040519014122.29731.00001574

Quoted message said:

Geez, you don't like compliments???

Quoted message said:

however a few things said are bunk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is not a compliment

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
>standardized..

they don't...that is a fact

says I..

and Janster retorts

Quoted message said:

No, it is not.

and she quotes from ONE site

Quoted message said:

http://www.naturopathic.org/licensure/education.html

<snip>

a quick google under "education of naturopath" ....FIRST site

"it is important to distinguish CERTIFIED naturopathic physicians from NON
CERTIFIED who have completed JUST a short term course...mainly by
CORRESPONDENCE!!!

hmmmmm....standardized education,,,??? hardly Janster..

which is why I noted that the LACK of such is the problems...

funny that you ONLY quoted the site that demonstrates YOUR view...

sad that..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

education,,credentials..and licensure ensures the consumer at least some
protection

says I...using Hulda as an example of WHAT the consumer needs protecting
against...

so Janny interjects

Quoted message said:

OOOOps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,diversion.

NOT diversion Janster...as the discussion concerns WHY ND's need standardized
education,,certification,,licensure...

how ELSE do we protect the unknowing from the charlatans?? (and yes..having a
license does NOT connote excellency...even decency....but it DOES connote a
level of education that is STANDARD for that field)

Quoted message said:

Brush up a bit. Not just California.

I only care about Calif....never said other states were into as well...

Quoted message said:

Not in question. Diversion.

typical jan bs....cannot refute facts with facts...

Quoted message said:

You are having a terrible time sticking to the subject,,,,,,,,,,,,which is:

says Jan

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>standardized..

Sorry, you are wrong, just like I said, and your added insults and diversions
doesn't say much for an *educated* nurse.

no....diaper changing....anyone with a valid search engine can prove you only
gave ONE example of ND education...

many many,...probably most...do NOT have 4 years of grad education...

if they did...why would there be a fuss about calling them
"doctor?'...hmmm...why don't they have prescriptive privileges?? admitting
privileges?? etc etc

Quoted message said:

Get over yourself, you aren't any better than others.

coming from you...that is a riot....I surely have a wealth of "personal
experience" in the medical field..you can barely work a search engine

Quoted message said:

Each person has God given talents, and your [censored] and know it all attitude
is a shame for the nursing profession. I

diversion...

Quoted message said:

have a sister-in-law who is a nurse,
Mom's care giver is a nurse, both warm loving people who look for the best in

diversion...

hmmmm...mom needs a caregiver???

sad that

hawki.....

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Hawki63)
Date: 5/18/2004 11:32 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/18/2004 10:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <20040519014122.29731.00001574

Quoted message said:

Geez, you don't like compliments???

Quoted message said:

however a few things said are bunk.

Quoted message said:

>

is not a compliment

The compliment came before the true statement.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
>>standardized..

they don't...that is a fact

says I..

Quoted message said:

and Janster retorts

My dear hawki, retort is your department.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No, it is not.

Quoted message said:

and she quotes from ONE site

Quoted message said:

http://www.naturopathic.org/licensure/education.html

<snip>

Quoted message said:

a quick google under "education of naturopath" ....FIRST site

Quoted message said:

"it is important to distinguish CERTIFIED naturopathic physicians from NON
CERTIFIED who have completed JUST a short term course...mainly by
CORRESPONDENCE!!!

Not in question.

You stated:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

standardized..

That's not true.

Quoted message said:

hmmmmm....standardized education,,,??? hardly Janster..

Not in question.

Quoted message said:

which is why I noted that the LACK of such is the problems...

Well, no, you stated:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

>>standardized..

Quoted message said:

funny that you ONLY quoted the site that demonstrates YOUR view...

Quoted message said:

sad that..

LOL. That website was there with or without my view. Sorry that it proved your
false accusation to be WRONG.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

education,,credentials..and licensure ensures the consumer at least some
protection

Quoted message said:

says I.

OOOps, you snipped:
Not in question.

Quoted message said:

..using Hulda

Quoted message said:

so Janny interjects

Quoted message said:

OOOOps,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,diversion.

Correct.

Quoted message said:

NOT diversion Janster..

Of course it was, this thread is not about Hulda, and the *gang* needs to learn
to be able to make a post without that diversion.

Quoted message said:

as the discussion concerns WHY ND's need standardized
education,,certification,,licensure...

NO, no and no, the discussion is about a statement you made that is untrue.

Quoted message said:

how ELSE do we protect the unknowing from the charlatans?? (and yes..having a
license does NOT connote excellency...even decency....but it DOES connote a
level of education that is STANDARD for that field)

Of course. Not in question.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Brush up a bit. Not just California.

I only care about Calif....never said other states were into as well...

Kindly do no snip websites, it is confusing for the readers.

Quoted message said:

Not in question. Diversion.

typical jan bs....cannot refute facts with facts...

Wrong, I just did.

Quoted message said:

You are having a terrible time sticking to the subject,,,,,,,,,,,,which is:

Quoted message said:

says Jan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

>>standardized..

No, that's what YOU said.

Quoted message said:

Sorry, you are wrong, just like I said, and your added insults and diversions

Quoted message said:

doesn't say much for an *educated* nurse.

Quoted message said:

no....diaper changing...

Is that meant to belittle???

Quoted message said:

.anyone with a valid search engine can prove you only
gave ONE example of ND education...

Of course.

Quoted message said:

many many,...probably most...do NOT have 4 years of grad education...

Most likely true, now back to your statement:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is

Quoted message said:

>>standardized..

Quoted message said:

if they did...why would there be a fuss about calling them
"doctor?'...hmmm...why don't they have prescriptive privileges?? admitting
privileges?? etc etc

Not in queston.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Get over yourself, you aren't any better than others.

coming from you...that is a riot.

See there yu go agin, hawki, [censored] insulting as usual.

Quoted message said:

.I surely have a wealth of "personal
experience" in the medical field..you can barely work a search engine

Uh huh.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Each person has God given talents, and your [censored] and know it all

attitude

Quoted message said:

is a shame for the nursing profession.

Quoted message said:

I

diversion...

Oh, I see. Snip in the middle of a sentence. Id that a sign of all your most
wonderful education???

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a sister-in-law who is a nurse,
Mom's care giver is a nurse, both warm loving people who look for the best

in

diversion...

Quoted message said:

hmmmm...mom needs a caregiver???

sad that

Indeed it is. A loving *nurse* caregiver and thank God for her.

And your remark shows your true character, and that is indeed sad and a
shameful reflection on all the loving nurses in the profession.

Jan

"Hawki63" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/18/2004 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At last a decent discussion, however a few things said are bunk.

geez janny...why don't you just shut up..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
standardized..

they don't...that is a fact

Quoted message said:

As is organized medicine teaching only.

no....but at least one cannot call oneself a "doctor" without specific
credentials and educational preparation...and licensure..

Quoted message said:

they shouldn't be given the power of physicians...until their training

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> education is equitable and standardized..

Quoted message said:

As in do it organized medicine's way.

no....that means get the credibility and then we shall talk..

Quoted message said:

This is a huge problem that most organized medicine members have wrong.

Jan

this is a huge problem that folks like Janster have wrong....

education,,credentials..and licensure ensures the consumer at least some
protection

keeps the hulda quacks from promising the moon..and not even knowing that

stars

Quoted message said:

exist

as I said...Calif IS in the process of credentialing/licensing etc
naturopaths...the legitimate ones of course..

those that obtain their "knowledge" from mail order,,,need not apply

sorry Janster...again...how about we NOT require airplane pilots to be
licensed..ie certified....same thing in my book...

anyone who has nothing to hide...will not hide...

hawki.....

This is the problem with people like you hawki, you are still using the same
old worn arguments that were weak when they were new.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 5/19/2004 1:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"it is important to distinguish CERTIFIED naturopathic physicians from NON
CERTIFIED who have completed JUST a short term course...mainly by
CORRESPONDENCE!!!

Not in question.

hmmmm....if a naturopath CAN get "education" via correspondence...but the site
you listed called it "4 years of graduate education"....

you do NOT see a discrepancy there??

perhaps you need to look up the definition of "standardized"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

no....diaper changing...

Is that meant to belittle???

why no.....where MY grandtwins go to daycare...the staff change diapers!!!
FACT

Quoted message said:

Most likely true, now back to your statement:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

unfortunately naturopaths don't get an education that is
>>>standardized..

Quoted message said:

if they did...why would there be a fuss about calling them
"doctor?'...hmmm...why don't they have prescriptive privileges?? admitting
privileges?? etc etc

Not in queston.

please re read what you wrote above...admitting that naturopaths do NOT all
have 4 years grad education....

then re tell me what standardized means!!

hawki.....

003 05-18-04 17:16
Subject: Dave's Story background...

Hawki63 posted:
Ha> I do believe in miracles....however..in YOUR cases..the single BEST
Ha> thing you did for YOURSELF was to stop smoking!!!
Ha> I cannot understand why you refuse to give yourself credit for that!!!
Ha> It is the SINGLE worst thing one can do for their
Ha> health..thus...stopping is the FIRST best thing one can do...

And the second best step one can do for their health, IMHO,
is to stop drinking cow's milk and diary products.

Many cases of ear infections and strep throats would go away.

And the third best step one can do for their health, IMHO,
is to start taking supplemental digestive enzymes.

.... End of message 19 May 04 10:32
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a sister-in-law who is a nurse,
Mom's care giver is a nurse, both warm loving people who look for the best

in

diversion...

hmmmm...mom needs a caregiver???

Yes, her mother needs care while Jan spends her days fear-mongering & preaching
bigotry on MHA

Quoted message said:

sad that

Indeed, sad that Jan is so happy to spend her time that way while a stranger
attends to her mother's needs.

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

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Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden] (Codex Says MicroDose Vitamins )
Date: 5/22/2004 5:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have a sister-in-law who is a nurse,
Mom's care giver is a nurse, both warm loving people who look for the best

in

diversion...

hmmmm...mom needs a caregiver???

Yes, her mother needs care while Jan spends her days fear-mongering &
preaching
bigotry on MHA

Quoted message said:

sad that

Indeed, sad that Jan is so happy to spend her time that way while a stranger
attends to her mother's needs.

Quoted message said:

hawki.....

Typical of Andrew Kingoff, Jewish boychik.

Although California has an estimated 1,000 plus practicing
"naturopaths", it is believed that less than 200 will be able to sit for
the first licensing exam in September because of "sub-education". The
only "eligibles are those who graduated from the four accredited 4-year
Naturopathic Colleges in the US & the one in Canada. California is the
13th state to pass this stardardized testing/licensing law, with another
couple of states expected to add to this number in the near future.

BTW, in order to get accepted into those 4-year programs, one must have
at least 3 years of undergraduate work, again from an accredited
college, with science course prequisites.

Quite a bit different from those mail order correspondence courses where
today you could be a truckdriver; four months down the road, you could
be an honest-to-god diplomaed Naturopath.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Dave's Story background...
From: [email hidden]
Date: 5/22/2004 8:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Although California has an estimated 1,000 plus practicing
"naturopaths", it is believed that less than 200 will be able to sit for
the first licensing exam in September because of "sub-education". The
only "eligibles are those who graduated from the four accredited 4-year
Naturopathic Colleges in the US & the one in Canada. California is the
13th state to pass this stardardized testing/licensing law, with another
couple of states expected to add to this number in the near future.

BTW, in order to get accepted into those 4-year programs, one must have
at least 3 years of undergraduate work, again from an accredited
college, with science course prequisites.

http://www.naturopathic.org/licensure/education.html