Re: Cyclist terrorist

On 6 Oct, 12:49, JNugent <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-h...

Quoted message said:

A cyclist is facing jail after he ploughed into a man on a pavement at
25mph killing him.

Quoted message said:

Peter Messen, 28, hit Tesco storeman Gary Green, 41, as he loaded his
car to go on holiday to Venice with his girlfriend.

Quoted message said:

At Truro crown court yesterday Messen admitted causing bodily harm by
wanton or furious cycling in March last year. It carries a maximum two
years in jail.

Quoted message said:

At an inquest earlier this year witnesses told how Messen was riding
down a hill "like a bat out of hell" on his mountain bike. And seconds
before Messen mounted the pavement shopper Don Lowe shouted at him:
"You are going to kill someone."
Advertisement
Click here to find out more!

Quoted message said:

Victim Gary of Stenalees, Cornwall, died from head injuries four days
later. Messen will be sentenced in November.

Quoted message said:

Comments please, especially from Doug

Quoted message said:

Peter

It can't possibly have happened. The "newspaper" must be imagining it.

Why do I say that?

Obviously, it's because we have been assured time and again that no
cyclist can possibly harm another road user and that they should all
be canonised forthwith. And each given a hundred quid a week out of
the poorbox to add to the considerably higher incomes they apparently
all have.

Funny I have never seen such an attitude posted anywhere. Perhaps you
would like to show me a link to a post or two.

Quoted message said:

PS: Why wasn't he charged with manslaughter?

Why did he get such an absurdly low sentence?

Quoted message said:

PPS: ukrc added- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Adam Lea said:

On 6 Oct, 12:49, JNugent <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-h...

Quoted message said:

A cyclist is facing jail after he ploughed into a man on a pavement at
25mph killing him.

Quoted message said:

Peter Messen, 28, hit Tesco storeman Gary Green, 41, as he loaded his
car to go on holiday to Venice with his girlfriend.

Quoted message said:

At Truro crown court yesterday Messen admitted causing bodily harm by
wanton or furious cycling in March last year. It carries a maximum two
years in jail.

Quoted message said:

At an inquest earlier this year witnesses told how Messen was riding
down a hill "like a bat out of hell" on his mountain bike. And seconds
before Messen mounted the pavement shopper Don Lowe shouted at him:
"You are going to kill someone."
Advertisement
Click here to find out more!

Quoted message said:

Victim Gary of Stenalees, Cornwall, died from head injuries four days
later. Messen will be sentenced in November.

Quoted message said:

Comments please, especially from Doug

Quoted message said:

Peter

It can't possibly have happened. The "newspaper" must be imagining it.

Why do I say that?

Obviously, it's because we have been assured time and again that no
cyclist can possibly harm another road user and that they should all
be canonised forthwith. And each given a hundred quid a week out of
the poorbox to add to the considerably higher incomes they apparently
all have.

Funny I have never seen such an attitude posted anywhere. Perhaps you
would like to show me a link to a post or two.

Quoted message said:

PS: Why wasn't he charged with manslaughter?

Why did he get such an absurdly low sentence?

What sentence is that?

The story reports that he will be sentenced in November.

JNugent said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-hit-faces-jail-89520-19905795/

A cyclist is facing jail after he ploughed into a man on a pavement at
25mph killing him.

Peter Messen, 28, hit Tesco storeman Gary Green, 41, as he loaded his
car to go on holiday to Venice with his girlfriend.

At Truro crown court yesterday Messen admitted causing bodily harm by
wanton or furious cycling in March last year. It carries a maximum two
years in jail.

At an inquest earlier this year witnesses told how Messen was riding
down a hill "like a bat out of hell" on his mountain bike. And seconds
before Messen mounted the pavement shopper Don Lowe shouted at him:
"You are going to kill someone."
Advertisement
Click here to find out more!

Victim Gary of Stenalees, Cornwall, died from head injuries four days
later. Messen will be sentenced in November.

Comments please, especially from Doug

Peter

It can't possibly have happened. The "newspaper" must be imagining it.

Why do I say that?

Obviously, it's because we have been assured time and again that no
cyclist can possibly harm another road user and that they should all
be canonised forthwith. And each given a hundred quid a week out of
the poorbox to add to the considerably higher incomes they apparently
all have.

If you look at the figures you will find out that about one person is
killed by a cyclist every two years. That compares with ten people
killed be drivers every day.

Quoted message said:

PS: Why wasn't he charged with manslaughter?

No idea. But the sentence won't be a £100 fine and loss of saddle for
6 months, which would be what a motorist might expect for killing
someone while driving on the pavement.

Quoted message said:

PPS: ukrc added

JNugent said:

PPS: ukrc added

TrollN.

JNugent said:

PS: Why wasn't he charged with manslaughter?

I wondered that. I hope that it was at least considered.

One of the problems here, though, is that cyclists are being sent mixed
messages in a variety of ways. A lot of cycle lanes are now on
pavements. I must confess that these routes make me slightly uneasy and
I tend to stick to a very low speed when using them. Secondly, I wish I
had a fiver for everytime that I have seen a copper or a police support
officer riding a bike on the pavement, often in busy shopping areas.
I've even seen the pretend coppers riding at night, head to foot in
black, with no lights on!

Also, some junctions make it almost impossible for cyclists to safely
comply with the law. A good example is the junction between the Trans
Peninine trail and Tiviot Way in Stockport. You come off the trail and
meet a set of lights that take you over this busy road and allow you to
cut through a Tesco car park into Stockport. There is a cycle lane
marked right up to the stop line. It is for bikes. It is where bikes
should be and where I would like to be. Trouble is, bikes don't activate
the lights to change, so you could sit there complying with the law
until the bloody cows come home. The end result is that you have to
crash the lights or cross using the pedestrian crossing.

Still no excuse for doing a lethal speed on a pavement. I personally
think that a charge at least equal to causing death by dangerous driving
should be used against cyclists in such circumstances.

Brian.

On 6 Oct, 14:00, JNugent <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea said:

On 6 Oct, 12:49, JNugent <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PeterG wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-h...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>A cyclist is facing jail after he ploughed into a man on a pavement at
>25mph killing him.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Peter Messen, 28, hit Tesco storeman Gary Green, 41, as he loaded his
>car to go on holiday to Venice with his girlfriend.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>At Truro crown court yesterday Messen admitted causing bodily harm by
>wanton or furious cycling in March last year. It carries a maximum two
>years in jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>At an inquest earlier this year witnesses told how Messen was riding
>down a hill "like a bat out of hell" on his mountain bike. And seconds
>before Messen mounted the pavement shopper Don Lowe shouted at him:
>"You are going to kill someone."
>Advertisement
>Click here to find out more!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Victim Gary of Stenalees, Cornwall, died from head injuries four days
>later. Messen will be sentenced in November.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Comments please, especially from Doug

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Peter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It can't possibly have happened. The "newspaper" must be imagining it.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why do I say that?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Obviously, it's because we have been assured time and again that no
cyclist can possibly harm another road user and that they should all
be canonised forthwith. And each given a hundred quid a week out of
the poorbox to add to the considerably higher incomes they apparently
all have.

Quoted message said:

Funny I have never seen such an attitude posted anywhere. Perhaps you
would like to show me a link to a post or two.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

PS: Why wasn't he charged with manslaughter?

Quoted message said:

Why did he get such an absurdly low sentence?

What sentence is that?

The story reports that he will be sentenced in November.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sorry - misread it.

I was referring to the bit about the maximum of two years in jail.

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian Robertson

('[email protected]') said:

Still no excuse for doing a lethal speed on a pavement. I personally
think that a charge at least equal to causing death by dangerous driving
should be used against cyclists in such circumstances.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. It's more or less the same
offence.

As a side note - we, as cyclists, really need a serious crack-down on
people cycling on the pavement. It's unnecessary and unsafe. Passing
through Dumfries before dawn on Monday morning I passed ten people on
bikes. Eight were on the pavement. Nine had no lights at all, and most of
those had no apparent reflectives either. Only one had proper lights and
was riding in primary position on the road - and, surprise, he was also
the only one riding a drop handlebar bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Brian Robertson

('[email protected]') said:

Still no excuse for doing a lethal speed on a pavement. I personally
think that a charge at least equal to causing death by dangerous driving
should be used against cyclists in such circumstances.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you. It's more or less the same
offence.

As a side note - we, as cyclists, really need a serious crack-down on
people cycling on the pavement. It's unnecessary and unsafe. Passing
through Dumfries before dawn on Monday morning I passed ten people on
bikes. Eight were on the pavement. Nine had no lights at all, and most of
those had no apparent reflectives either. Only one had proper lights and
was riding in primary position on the road - and, surprise, he was also
the only one riding a drop handlebar bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
; gif ye hes forget our auld plane Scottis quhilk your mother lerit you,
; in tymes cuming I sall wryte to you my mind in Latin, for I am nocht
; acquyntit with your Southeron
;; Letter frae Ninian Winyet tae John Knox datit 27t October 1563

Totally agree with you here. I see people cycling on the pavement
frequently even when the road is deserted (e.g. 11pm at night) which
puzzles me as I thought people cycled on the pavement for fear of
traffic.

Even some of the road cyclists don't seem to bother with lights at
night which again puzzles me as you can pick up a reasonable set of
lights suitable for urban riding at night for about £10. All you have
to do is fit them and switch them on.

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-hit-faces-jail-89520-19905795/

It can't possibly have happened. The "newspaper" must be imagining it.

Why do I say that?

Obviously, it's because we have been assured time and again that no
cyclist can possibly harm another road user.......

kindly post references.

Whilst this cyclist's behaviour is abhorrent and indefensible, your attitude
is unforgiveable.

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-hit-faces-jail-89520-19905795/

"terrorist" - someone who engages in terrorism

"terrorism" - only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that
terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence

Whilst no-one can deny that this cyclist inflicted violence on another
person, and there is no excuse for that, have you considered that the
definition fits almost every motorised vehicle user much better than it fits
any cyclist? Which group inflicts more violence on others, cyclists or
drivers? and which therefore, more deserves the appelation "terrorist"?

Have you written similar threads in response to drivers who have killed
pedestrians on the pavement, or just to this one?

Final question: what's it like being a hypocrite?

Simon Brooke said:

As a side note - we, as cyclists, really need a serious crack-down on
people cycling on the pavement. It's unnecessary and unsafe. Passing
through Dumfries before dawn on Monday morning I passed ten people on
bikes. Eight were on the pavement. Nine had no lights at all, and most of
those had no apparent reflectives either. Only one had proper lights and
was riding in primary position on the road - and, surprise, he was also
the only one riding a drop handlebar bike.

Well it's a message lost on many. I was out in Southampton yesterday and
saw the leader of a group of cyclists encouraging her group to use the
pavement, despite the number of pedestrians on the pavement, and despite
the absence of road traffic. And no it wasn't a dual-use pavement.

Adam Lea said:

Totally agree with you here. I see people cycling on the pavement
frequently even when the road is deserted (e.g. 11pm at night) which
puzzles me as I thought people cycled on the pavement for fear of
traffic.

Maybe it's because of the cyclists' fear of traffic?

It's a standard speedophile excuse to claim that late at night, the
streets are empty, so of course it's toadally unfair to ticket anyone
for speeding -- stealth tax and all that.

So naturally, it's reasonable for potential victims to be extra-cautious
on empty roads, late at night, when SafeSpeed morons are driving at
speeds "appropriate to conditions", as judged by their moronic selves.

In message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

Quoted message said:

Even some of the road cyclists don't seem to bother with lights at
night which again puzzles me as you can pick up a reasonable set of
lights suitable for urban riding at night for about £10. All you have
to do is fit them and switch them on.

I've seen a cyclist with a hand-held torch as their light source.

burtthebike said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-hit-faces-jail-89520-19905795/

"terrorist" - someone who engages in terrorism

"terrorism" - only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that
terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence

Whoosh!

Make no mistake: the comparison with terrorism (and not originally in
respect of cycling - far from it!) was made by someone else (and
before this thread was started) - certainly not be me.

Quoted message said:

Whilst no-one can deny that this cyclist inflicted violence on another
person, and there is no excuse for that, have you considered that the
definition fits almost every motorised vehicle user much better than it
fits any cyclist?

Go back to sleep. There's nothing to see here. Move along (and that
applies to the others who have posted from the hip).

Timothy Baldwin said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

Quoted message said:

Even some of the road cyclists don't seem to bother with lights at
night which again puzzles me as you can pick up a reasonable set of
lights suitable for urban riding at night for about £10. All you have
to do is fit them and switch them on.

I've seen a cyclist with a hand-held torch as their light source.

Shame on you for such a calumny.

Push-bike-riders are the absolute salt of the earth. They'd never do
such a thing. Ask Guy if you don't believe me.

On Oct 7, 12:20 am, "burtthebike" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-h...

"terrorist" - someone who engages in terrorism

"terrorism" - only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that
terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence

Whilst no-one can deny that this cyclist inflicted violence on another
person, and there is no excuse for that, have you considered that the
definition fits almost every motorised vehicle user much better than it fits
any cyclist? Which group inflicts more violence on others, cyclists or
drivers? and which therefore, more deserves the appelation "terrorist"?

Have you written similar threads in response to drivers who have killed
pedestrians on the pavement, or just to this one?

Final question: what's it like being a hypocrite?

Is it not amazing how some people miss the point by a mile (or more).
I suggest that you check this group posts for motorist terrorist, the
results you get may help you to see the reason for my post.
Until then just lurk, unless you are Doug in disguise.

By the way I, have I messed Dougs comments?

Peter

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Timothy Baldwin said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Adam
Lea

Quoted message said:

Even some of the road cyclists don't seem to bother with lights at
night which again puzzles me as you can pick up a reasonable set of
lights suitable for urban riding at night for about £10. All you have
to do is fit them and switch them on.

I've seen a cyclist with a hand-held torch as their light source.

Shame on you for such a calumny.

Push-bike-riders are the absolute salt of the earth. They'd never do such
a thing. Ask Guy if you don't believe me.

Are you suggesting that using a hand held torch is somehow wrong or that you
would prefer that they use no light source at all?

Steve Firth said:

Simon Brooke said:

As a side note - we, as cyclists, really need a serious crack-down on
people cycling on the pavement. It's unnecessary and unsafe. Passing
through Dumfries before dawn on Monday morning I passed ten people on
bikes. Eight were on the pavement. Nine had no lights at all, and most of
those had no apparent reflectives either. Only one had proper lights and
was riding in primary position on the road - and, surprise, he was also
the only one riding a drop handlebar bike.

Well it's a message lost on many. I was out in Southampton yesterday and
saw the leader of a group of cyclists encouraging her group to use the
pavement, despite the number of pedestrians on the pavement, and despite
the absence of road traffic. And no it wasn't a dual-use pavement.

How would you even be able to recognise a duel use pavement? You think
that the Tour de France could be run on £60 mountain bikes from Costco.
I would say that somebody as plain THICK as you have nothing to
contribute to a thread about cycling.

Brian.

burtthebike said:

"JNugent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PeterG said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/10/06/cyclist-in-death-hit-faces-jail-89520-19905795/

"terrorist" - someone who engages in terrorism

"terrorism" - only general characteristic generally agreed upon is that
terrorism involves violence and the threat of violence

Whilst no-one can deny that this cyclist inflicted violence on another
person, and there is no excuse for that, have you considered that the
definition fits almost every motorised vehicle user much better than it
fits any cyclist? Which group inflicts more violence on others,
cyclists or drivers? and which therefore, more deserves the appelation
"terrorist"?

Have you written similar threads in response to drivers who have killed
pedestrians on the pavement, or just to this one?

Final question: what's it like being a hypocrite?

Welcome to the world of uk.transport, mate. There are certain people on
here - a very vocal minority - who will not tolerate anyone who
expresses an opinion contrary to their own. When such an opinion is
expressed, they basically gang together and hound the offender from the
group. They are all petrol heads, some even admit to being lorry drivers
(Personally I would be unwilling to admit that fact, if I had sunk so
low) and would like to see all railways closed and turned into roads,
facilities for cyclists removed and most of the countryside tarmaced
over, except for the bit outside their own front doors.

They are stupid, to a man. On another thread the ringleader, Steve
Firth, recently expressed the opinion that there is no advantage to
buying an expensive bike as against paying out for a top-end model.
Basically, we cyclists could just as well go to Costco and buy a £60
heap as pay out for a top-end machine. Bikes are, he said, nothing more
than a frame, two wheels and some brakes, whatever their pedigree. He
then compounded his stupidity by admitting that this learned opinion was
based upon trips to the corner shop to buy a loaf of bread and that his
idea of paying a top-end price for a bike is to shell out £200!!!

You might get some amusement out of answering posts that have been cross
posted from here, but don't expect a sensible discussion. Just laugh at
them.

Brian.