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Re: CruzBike?

Started by Tom Sherman · · Last activity · 24 posts · 1,569 views

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Recumbent bicycles
Published
27 November 2007
Last activity
12 December 2007
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Tom Sherman
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  1. (PeteCresswell) said:

    Never heard of it.

    Does anybody actually have one of these things?
    http://www.cruzbike.com/


    Not me.

    Quoted message said:


    Been flirting with the idea of a 'bent for a number of years -


    Oh, the HORROR!!! 😉

    Quoted message said:


    just for path riding but, being a statistical outlier
    body-dimension-wise, have shied away from the cost of a custom.


    My opinion is that recumbents are best on the open road, or ridden in a
    "vehicular cycling" mode. Path generally have too many features that
    need to be maneuvered at low speed with tight turns, which is not a
    forte of recumbent bicycles (trikes are a different matter).

    Describe more specifically how you differ from the norm, and perhaps
    suggestions for suitable bicycles could be made. Recumbent fit concerns
    are rather different than those of uprights.

    Quoted message said:


    Cruz' attraction is that the drive system seems to lend itself to
    fairly extreme leg length adjustments - yet fit on the average
    trunk-mount bike rack.


    I would hesitate to buy without a chance to ride one first. Moving
    bottom bracket bicycle can be rather odd in the handling department.
    Note that the number of dealers is sparse, so finding a test ride may
    not be practical.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  2. On Nov 26, 8:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    (PeteCresswell) said:

    Never heard of it.

    Quoted message said:

    Does anybody actually have one of these things?
    http://www.cruzbike.com/

    Not me.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Been flirting with the idea of a 'bent for a number of years -

    Quoted message said:


    Oh, the HORROR!!! 😉

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    just for path riding but, being a statistical outlier


    body-dimension-wise, have shied away from the cost of a custom.

    Quoted message said:


    My opinion is that recumbents are best on the open road, or ridden in a
    "vehicular cycling" mode. Path generally have too many features that
    need to be maneuvered at low speed with tight turns, which is not a
    forte of recumbent bicycles (trikes are a different matter).

    Describe more specifically how you differ from the norm, and perhaps
    suggestions for suitable bicycles could be made. Recumbent fit concerns
    are rather different than those of uprights.

    Quoted message said:

    Cruz' attraction is that the drive system seems to lend itself to
    fairly extreme leg length adjustments - yet fit on the average
    trunk-mount bike rack.

    Quoted message said:


    I would hesitate to buy without a chance to ride one first. Moving
    bottom bracket bicycle can be rather odd in the handling department.
    Note that the number of dealers is sparse, so finding a test ride may
    not be practical.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

    Labeling all recumbents as not suitable for bike paths is a massive
    generalization. My short-wheelbase Rans Rocket is very agile at low
    speeds and tight turns. My long-wheelbase Sun EZ-Sport is almost as
    good.

  3. Joe Bernard said:

    On Nov 26, 8:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    (PeteCresswell) said:

    Never heard of it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Does anybody actually have one of these things?
    http://www.cruzbike.com/

    Quoted message said:

    Not me.

    Quoted message said:

    > Been flirting with the idea of a 'bent for a number of years -

    Quoted message said:

    Oh, the HORROR!!! 😉

    Quoted message said:

    > just for path riding but, being a statistical outlier
    body-dimension-wise, have shied away from the cost of a custom.

    Quoted message said:

    My opinion is that recumbents are best on the open road, or ridden in a
    "vehicular cycling" mode. Path generally have too many features that
    need to be maneuvered at low speed with tight turns, which is not a
    forte of recumbent bicycles (trikes are a different matter).

    Quoted message said:

    Describe more specifically how you differ from the norm, and perhaps
    suggestions for suitable bicycles could be made. Recumbent fit concerns
    are rather different than those of uprights.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Cruz' attraction is that the drive system seems to lend itself to
    fairly extreme leg length adjustments - yet fit on the average
    trunk-mount bike rack.

    Quoted message said:

    I would hesitate to buy without a chance to ride one first. Moving
    bottom bracket bicycle can be rather odd in the handling department.
    Note that the number of dealers is sparse, so finding a test ride may
    not be practical.

    Quoted message said:

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

    Labeling all recumbents as not suitable for bike paths is a massive
    generalization. My short-wheelbase Rans Rocket is very agile at low
    speeds and tight turns. My long-wheelbase Sun EZ-Sport is almost as
    good.- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    /s

  4. Joe Bernard said:

    On Nov 26, 8:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    (PeteCresswell) said:

    ...
    > Been flirting with the idea of a 'bent for a number of years -

    Oh, the HORROR!!! 😉

    Quoted message said:

    > just for path riding...

    My opinion is that recumbents are best on the open road, or ridden in a
    "vehicular cycling" mode. Path generally have too many features that
    need to be maneuvered at low speed with tight turns, which is not a
    forte of recumbent bicycles (trikes are a different matter).


    ...

    Labeling all recumbents as not suitable for bike paths is a massive
    generalization. My short-wheelbase Rans Rocket is very agile at low
    speeds and tight turns. My long-wheelbase Sun EZ-Sport is almost as
    good.

    1. I did not label all recumbents as unsuitable for riding on paths.
    Rather, I was contending the real strength of recumbents is being ridden
    on the open road. Using a recumbent only on paths (as the original
    poster suggested doing) would be a significant under utilization of the
    bicycle.

    2. What is a "Rans Rocket"? Is it similar to the 2000 [1] RANS Rocket I
    have?

    3. While most paths can be negotiated on a recumbent without
    dismounting, it is much easier to deal with the really poorly designed
    sections on an upright bicycle, particularly an ATB. Of course, the
    recumbent is vastly superior to the ATB in comfort and speed.

    [1] By serial number, the frame is a 1999, but it came with the 2000
    seat, so I assume it was one of the leftover 1999 frames built up in 2000.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  5. Scott Gordo said:
    Joe Bernard said:

    On Nov 26, 8:11 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>
    wrote:


    What up with Google - they need to fix their web interface to meet
    commonly accepted Usenet standards? The elimination of blank lines, the
    insertion of extra blank lines and ignoring the signature separator are
    all unacceptable.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    > Never heard of it.
    > Does anybody actually have one of these things?
    > http://www.cruzbike.com/
    Not me.
    >> Been flirting with the idea of a 'bent for a number of years -
    Oh, the HORROR!!! 😉
    >> just for path riding but, being a statistical outlier
    > body-dimension-wise, have shied away from the cost of a custom.
    My opinion is that recumbents are best on the open road, or ridden in a
    "vehicular cycling" mode. Path generally have too many features that
    need to be maneuvered at low speed with tight turns, which is not a
    forte of recumbent bicycles (trikes are a different matter).
    Describe more specifically how you differ from the norm, and perhaps
    suggestions for suitable bicycles could be made. Recumbent fit concerns
    are rather different than those of uprights.
    > Cruz' attraction is that the drive system seems to lend itself to
    > fairly extreme leg length adjustments - yet fit on the average
    > trunk-mount bike rack.
    I would hesitate to buy without a chance to ride one first. Moving
    bottom bracket bicycle can be rather odd in the handling department.
    Note that the number of dealers is sparse, so finding a test ride may
    not be practical.

    Quoted message said:

    Labeling all recumbents as not suitable for bike paths is a massive
    generalization. My short-wheelbase Rans Rocket is very agile at low
    speeds and tight turns. My long-wheelbase Sun EZ-Sport is almost as
    good.- Hide quoted text -

    - Show quoted text -

    From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    The CruzBike does look to have the weight distribution too far forward.

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling. For many types of riding,
    these limitations are unimportant.

    You do not want to plant your foot while riding a recumbent. On the
    other hand, if you are going slow enough that you could attempt a foot
    plant, a fall from a recumbent will not really hurt anything. Falling
    over on a recumbent is much less hurtful than doing the same on an upright.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  6. Per Tom Sherman:

    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling.

    After I fired off the post, I realized that with the front wheel
    drive there might be difficulty negotiating something like a curb
    by raising the front wheel.
    --
    PeteCresswell

  7. (PeteCresswell) said:

    Per Tom Sherman:

    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling.

    After I fired off the post, I realized that with the front wheel
    drive there might be difficulty negotiating something like a curb
    by raising the front wheel.

    Raising the front wheel is very difficult to impossible on a recumbent.
    As I wrote, recumbents are best when used for "vehicular cycling". For
    some, that trade-off is negligible compared to the advantages in comfort
    and aerodynamic drag, for others it is not. As always, YMMV.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  8. Scott Gordo said:

    From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    /s

    DING DING DING DING DING!!!
    We have a winner!

    Yes, on an upright bicycle, you balance by moving your body, or even
    pull up to pop a wheelie or bunny hop a curb.
    Yes, on a recumbent, you cannot move very much. You must learn to
    steer the front wheel toward the balance point, where the line between
    the tire contact patches is underneath the center of mass, and altered
    by a deliberate turn. For practice, I will hold a pipe or chain link
    fence, and attempt to balance with as little push / pull effort as
    possible. When approaching a red light or busy stop sign, I can ride
    real slow, close to a track stand.
    It is difficult for first time riders to get used to this, but you get
    used to it after a few miles.

  9. Joe Bernard said:

    ...
    Aaaah I see. OK, settle it. Rans or RANS?

    Randy Schlitter says "RANS" is correct. End of argument.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  10. On Nov 29, 4:23 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Joe Bernard said:

    ...
    Aaaah I see. OK, settle it. Rans or RANS?

    Randy Schlitter says "RANS" is correct. End of argument.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

    What does he know? Oh, right. I knew it, too, and can't believe I
    typed it wrong the first time. Don't tell my Rocket.

  11. [email hidden said:

    "]On Nov 27, 9:22 am, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:

    DING DING DING DING DING!!!
    We have a winner!

    Yes, on an upright bicycle, you balance by moving your body,

    Wrong!

    Balance AND navigation on both the upright bike and the recumbent, require steering inputs to remain balanced. Although the rider on the upright has marginally greater influence over balancing than the 'bent rider does, the same basic laws of physics apply equally to both platforms.

  12. Joe Bernard said:

    On Nov 29, 4:23 pm, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Joe Bernard said:

    ...
    Aaaah I see. OK, settle it. Rans or RANS?


    Randy Schlitter says "RANS" is correct. End of argument.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

    What does he know? Oh, right. I knew it, too, and can't believe I
    typed it wrong the first time. Don't tell my Rocket.

    Get down on your knees facing Hays, Kansas, and say one-hundred (100)
    "Hail RANS". 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  13. cjengineer who? said:
    Quoted message said:

    On Nov 27, 9:22 am, Scott Gordo <[email hidden]> wrote:

    DING DING DING DING DING!!!
    We have a winner!

    Yes, on an upright bicycle, you balance by moving your body, Wrong!

    Balance AND navigation on _both_ the upright bike and the recumbent,
    require steering inputs to remain balanced. Although the rider on the
    upright has marginally greater influence over balancing than the 'bent
    rider does, the same basic laws of physics apply equally to both
    platforms.

    Yes, one does not see many (any?) upright bicycles without steering.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  14. Tom Sherman said:


    Scott Gordo said:


    From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    The CruzBike does look to have the weight distribution too far forward.

    The Cruzbike's traction probably benefits from it's weight bias to the
    drive wheel. I'm pretty sure that its handling suffers more from
    pedal-steering than it does from its weight distribution. But once
    you've made the decisive handling compromise of going to any kind of
    'bent layout, the specific problems are just details. It's like
    complaining about a necktie that flaps in your face when you've
    already jumped out of a tall building.

    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling. For many types of riding,
    these limitations are unimportant.

    You can call it "unimportant" to limit your bike travel only to places
    where you can take the lane (or a paved shoulder), but actually
    getting places is easier and much more versatile when you can also
    take to the sidewalk or the grassy margins as appropriate-- even if
    those facilities are not blessed with curb cuts.

    'Bents don't appear to do well in city centers, or in well-populated
    suburbs. Judging by the places I ever see them riding more than once
    in a rare while, it looks like they are best suited to riding on multi-
    use paths and inconvenient byways avoided by motorists. I expect that
    they'd be OK on the open road, but I don't think I've ever seen one
    out in the countryside.

    Chalo

  15. Chalo Colina said:
    Tom Sherman said:
    Scott Gordo said:

    From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    The CruzBike does look to have the weight distribution too far forward.

    The Cruzbike's traction probably benefits from it's weight bias to the
    drive wheel. I'm pretty sure that its handling suffers more from
    pedal-steering than it does from its weight distribution. But once
    you've made the decisive handling compromise of going to any kind of
    'bent layout, the specific problems are just details. It's like
    complaining about a necktie that flaps in your face when you've
    already jumped out of a tall building.

    With all due respect, commenting on the handling of recumbents would be
    better left to those that have some experience of the variety. I have
    ridden recumbents that require almost no effort to steer and balance,
    and poorly designed others that are barely controllable. There is a far
    greater variation in recumbents than there is in upright bicycles.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling. For many types of riding,
    these limitations are unimportant.

    You can call it "unimportant" to limit your bike travel only to places
    where you can take the lane (or a paved shoulder), but actually
    getting places is easier and much more versatile when you can also
    take to the sidewalk or the grassy margins as appropriate-- even if
    those facilities are not blessed with curb cuts.

    I never found this to be a significant disadvantage. I prefer NOT to
    ride in these odd places, since both pedestrians and motorists will not
    be watching for potential conflicts coming from these areas,
    substantially increasing the risk of collisions.

    Quoted message said:

    'Bents don't appear to do well in city centers, or in well-populated
    suburbs.

    Huh? I have spent plenty of time riding a recumbent in such areas with
    not difficulty. Again, we have a non-recumbent riding "expert" on
    recumbents. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    Judging by the places I ever see them riding more than once
    in a rare while, it looks like they are best suited to riding on multi-
    use paths and inconvenient byways avoided by motorists. I expect that
    they'd be OK on the open road, but I don't think I've ever seen one
    out in the countryside.

    I have seen plenty (relative to their share of the bicycle market) of
    recumbents on the open road. In fact, due to the greater comfort and
    upright to slightly reclined head position, recumbents are an excellent
    choice for long-distance touring.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  16. Edward Dolan said:

    "Chalo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Sherman said:

    Scott Gordo wrote:
    > From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    > recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    > like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    > of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.
    The CruzBike does look to have the weight distribution too far forward.


    The Cruzbike's traction probably benefits from it's weight bias to the
    drive wheel. I'm pretty sure that its handling suffers more from
    pedal-steering than it does from its weight distribution. But once
    you've made the decisive handling compromise of going to any kind of
    'bent layout, the specific problems are just details. It's like
    complaining about a necktie that flaps in your face when you've
    already jumped out of a tall building.

    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling. For many types of riding,
    these limitations are unimportant.


    You can call it "unimportant" to limit your bike travel only to places
    where you can take the lane (or a paved shoulder), but actually
    getting places is easier and much more versatile when you can also
    take to the sidewalk or the grassy margins as appropriate-- even if
    those facilities are not blessed with curb cuts.

    'Bents don't appear to do well in city centers, or in well-populated
    suburbs. Judging by the places I ever see them riding more than once
    in a rare while, it looks like they are best suited to riding on multi-
    use paths and inconvenient byways avoided by motorists. I expect that
    they'd be OK on the open road, but I don't think I've ever seen one
    out in the countryside.

    Chalo is quite correct in everything he says above. Mr. Sherman gets carried
    away by the sole advantage of a recumbent, and that is its comfort as
    compared to an upright. However, when you are old and decrepit like I am, it
    is either ride a recumbent or forget about bikes altogether.

    The day may come when even Chalo will think the comfort factor is of supreme
    importance and all those other factors which he now cherishes will be of no
    importance whatever.

    One does wonder if Chalo, due to his 2.05-meter tall stature and mass in
    the 145 to 175-kilogram range, has ever ridden a recumbent suitable for
    him? All the production recumbents I can think of would either have too
    short a wheelbase or two flexible of a frame for someone in the 99.9th
    percentile of height and mass.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  17. Edward Dolan said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Chalo Colina wrote:


    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    'Bents don't appear to do well in city centers, or in well-populated
    suburbs.


    Huh? I have spent plenty of time riding a recumbent in such areas with no
    difficulty. Again, we have a non-recumbent riding "expert" on recumbents.
    🙁

    I wonder if Tom Sherman has ever ridden an upright for any length of time?
    The fact is that they will go places easily that a recumbent can only
    negotiate with awkwardness. An upright is like a deer springing through
    traffic; a recumbent is more like a lumbering elephant.
    [...]

    I purchased my first quality upright bicycle (a Peugeot P-8 from Andrew
    Muzi at Yellow Jersey) in 1982, and my first recumbent (RANS Wave) in
    1999. Do the math.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
    "Localized intense suction such as tornadoes is created when temperature
    differences are high enough between meeting air masses, and can impart
    excessive energy onto a cyclist." - Randy Schlitter

  18. Tom Sherman said:

    Chalo Colina wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Judging by the places I ever see them riding more than once
    in a rare while, it looks like they are best suited to riding on multi-
    use paths and inconvenient byways avoided by motorists. I expect that
    they'd be OK on the open road, but I don't think I've ever seen one
    out in the countryside.

    I have seen plenty (relative to their share of the bicycle market) of
    recumbents on the open road. In fact, due to the greater comfort and
    upright to slightly reclined head position, recumbents are an excellent
    choice for long-distance touring.

    Indeed, judging by the use I make of mine, Chalo is wrong. I use
    it on Real Roads in the countryside more often than I use it
    anywhere else (it is, after all, a specific touring example)

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  19. -

  20. Tom Sherman said:
    Chalo Colina said:
    Tom Sherman said:

    Scott Gordo wrote:
    > From looking at that cruzbike.com page, it dawned on me that
    > recumbents must require more of a leap of faith handling-wise. Looks
    > like there's no way to redistribute your weight, and I don't see much
    > of a way to plant a foot to prevent a crash.

    The CruzBike does look to have the weight distribution too far forward.

    The Cruzbike's traction probably benefits from it's weight bias to the
    drive wheel. I'm pretty sure that its handling suffers more from
    pedal-steering than it does from its weight distribution. But once
    you've made the decisive handling compromise of going to any kind of
    'bent layout, the specific problems are just details. It's like
    complaining about a necktie that flaps in your face when you've
    already jumped out of a tall building.

    With all due respect, commenting on the handling of recumbents would be
    better left to those that have some experience of the variety. I have
    ridden recumbents that require almost no effort to steer and balance,
    and poorly designed others that are barely controllable. There is a far
    greater variation in recumbents than there is in upright bicycles.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You can not do the same type of maneuvers on a recumbent as on a
    upright, but this is really only of concern in technical off-road riding
    or certain types of non-vehicular cycling. For many types of riding,
    these limitations are unimportant.

    You can call it "unimportant" to limit your bike travel only to places
    where you can take the lane (or a paved shoulder), but actually
    getting places is easier and much more versatile when you can also
    take to the sidewalk or the grassy margins as appropriate-- even if
    those facilities are not blessed with curb cuts.

    I never found this to be a significant disadvantage. I prefer NOT to
    ride in these odd places, since both pedestrians and motorists will not
    be watching for potential conflicts coming from these areas,
    substantially increasing the risk of collisions.

    Quoted message said:

    'Bents don't appear to do well in city centers, or in well-populated
    suburbs.

    Huh? I have spent plenty of time riding a recumbent in such areas with
    not difficulty. Again, we have a non-recumbent riding "expert" on
    recumbents. 🙁

    Quoted message said:

    Judging by the places I ever see them riding more than once
    in a rare while, it looks like they are best suited to riding on multi-
    use paths and inconvenient byways avoided by motorists. I expect that
    they'd be OK on the open road, but I don't think I've ever seen one
    out in the countryside.

    I have seen plenty (relative to their share of the bicycle market) of
    recumbents on the open road. In fact, due to the greater comfort and
    upright to slightly reclined head position, recumbents are an excellent
    choice for long-distance touring.

    Ever recumbent is different. Some are more suitable for riding in one
    type of situation other are better in other situation, which is pretty
    much the same as diamond frame bicycles. I ride my V2 in town almost
    exclusively, even though I have two diamond frames sitting in my garage.
    Once the new recumbent rider becomes proficient at riding their
    recumbent they will be at home in more and more situations and
    conditions. Would I choose to ride my V2 in New York city as a commuter?
    Probably not. I would probably choose a short wheel base for that
    situation.

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