Re: cooked flax = trans fat?

John Sankey wrote:
:: All my ancestors cooked their fish in water, especially when
:: it had been salted and dried first. That's not high heat
:: compared to frying.
::
:: I consume most of my olive oil unheated - don't most cultures
:: around the Mediterranean?

I am not so sure about that. The Cretans use HUGE amounts of olive oil in
frying, soups, stews and casseroles.

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: John Sankey wrote:
:::: All my ancestors cooked their fish in water, especially when
:::: it had been salted and dried first. That's not high heat
:::: compared to frying.
::::
:::: I consume most of my olive oil unheated - don't most cultures
:::: around the Mediterranean?
::
:: I am not so sure about that. The Cretans use HUGE amounts of olive
:: oil in frying, soups, stews and casseroles.

Just have a look at this recipe -- and this is typical.

FISH IN THE OWEN
1 kilo of fish gutted and descaled
*1 cup of virgin olive oil*
1 lb of tomatoes
A bunch of parsley
2 cloves of garlic
1 cup of breadcrumbs
The juice of one lemon
Salt and pepper

Chop the parsley and garlic and mix with salt, pepper and breadcrumbs. Chop
half the tomatoes and place them in a baking pan. Place the fish on top and
sprinkle with the mixture of garlic, parsley etc. Then add the rest of the
tomatoes, also chopped small. Pour the oil and the lemon juice on the whole
dish. Cook in a medium oven until the fish is tender (this will depend
entirely on the variety and size of the fish). (Source:
http://www.makrigialos.gr/cretanre-en.htm )

--
Juhana

John Sankey said:

All my ancestors cooked their fish in water, especially when
it had been salted and dried first. That's not high heat
compared to frying.

Who the hell said that anybody should fry anything? Certainly NOT me.
🙂

Quoted message said:

I consume most of my olive oil unheated - don't most cultures
around the Mediterranean?

The last thing that I would do with olive oil is use it to fry food
becuase it smokes. It certainly is not the oil to be used for high
heat frying. Now go on and try to tell me how you ...

You are an idiot. That was my point. You don't know what you are
talking about. 🙁

so what harmful substances are created by oxidizing oils?

again i read that when olive oil and flax oil oxidize trans fats are
created

On 25 Jun 2005 22:38:02 -0700, [email hidden] wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on
sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

so what harmful substances are created by oxidizing oils?

again i read that when olive oil and flax oil oxidize trans fats are
created

I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra Virgin Olive)
oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so on, but I myself never
cook oil nor other fat.

I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent and
healthy effects. 🙂

--
Enrico C

Enrico C wrote:
:: On 25 Jun 2005 22:38:02 -0700, [email hidden] wrote in
:: <news:[email hidden]> on
:: sci.med.nutrition :
::
::: so what harmful substances are created by oxidizing oils?
:::
::: again i read that when olive oil and flax oil oxidize trans fats are
::: created
::
:: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra Virgin
:: Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so on, but I
:: myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::
:: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent and
:: healthy effects. 🙂

One should not forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out
in this article in the oil used is the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/
rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to read through.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Enrico C wrote:

:::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra Virgin
:::: Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so on, but I
:::: myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::::
:::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent
:::: and healthy effects. 🙂

I made some mistakes in typing. I meant to say: One should not forget extra
virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in this article the oil used
in the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/ rape seed oil, not olive oil.
This is a very good article to read through.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: Enrico C wrote:
::
:::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra
:::::: Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so
:::::: on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::::::
:::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent
:::::: and healthy effects. 🙂
::
:: I made some mistakes in typing. I meant to say: One should not
:: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in this
:: article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/
:: rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to read
:: through.
::
:: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I find it very
interesting that canola oil would be better for endothelial function than
olive oil.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles, Links

The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on
endothelial function.

Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.

Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]

OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of components of
the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function, which may be an atherogenic
factor. BACKGROUND: The Mediterranean diet, containing olive oil, pasta,
fruits, vegetables, fish, and wine, is associated with an unexpectedly low
rate of cardiovascular events. The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched canola oil
for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich olive oil, reduced
cardiovascular events. METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals contained different
fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and salmon. Two olive oil meals also
contained antioxidant vitamins (C and E) or foods (balsamic vinegar and
salad). We measured serum lipoproteins and glucose and brachial artery
flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD), an index of endothelial function, before
and 3 h after each meal. RESULTS: All five meals significantly raised serum
triglycerides, but did not change other lipoproteins or glucose 3 h
postprandially. The olive oil meal reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2% to 9.9 +/-
4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between postprandial
changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47, p < 0.05). The remaining
four meals did not significantly reduce FMD. CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their
postprandial effect on endothelial function, the beneficial components of
the Mediterranean and Lyon Diet Heart Study diets appear to be
antioxidant-rich foods, including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives
such as vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

--
Juhana

Quoted message said:

so what harmful substances are created by oxidizing oils?

So, what! It is called life.

Quoted message said:

again i read that when olive oil and flax oil oxidize trans fats are
created

Again, so what!!!

But,of course, if you are dumb enough to actually cook with flaxoil ...

And, if you try to obuse olive oil by frying with it ... Yeah, you just
might end up with tans fats. However, breathing the smoke / vapors
from frying with olive oil would be a lot more toxic to your health.

Frying foods in a frying pan with any oil is out 100%, for health
reasons as far as I am concerned. And, anybody who constantly dwells on
frying food is a total idiot, IMHO.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I find it very
interesting that canola oil would be better for endothelial function than
olive oil.

Did they compare *extra virgin* olive oil?
Besides, I gather taste is very different. People add oil mainly for its
taste. Of course, taste is quite a subjective matter, yet a palatable and
satisfying diet will show a greater adherence rate! 😉

--
Enrico C

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: Enrico C wrote:
::
:::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra
:::::: Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so
:::::: on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::::::
:::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent
:::::: and healthy effects. 🙂
::
:: I made some mistakes in typing. I meant to say: One should not
:: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in this
:: article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/
:: rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to read
:: through.
::
:: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I find it very
interesting that canola oil would be better for endothelial function than
olive oil.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles, Links

The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on
endothelial function.

Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.

Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]

OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of components of
the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function, which may be an atherogenic
factor. BACKGROUND: The Mediterranean diet, containing olive oil, pasta,
fruits, vegetables, fish, and wine, is associated with an unexpectedly low
rate of cardiovascular events.

And it used olive oil, not canola or margarine.

Quoted message said:

The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched canola oil
for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich olive oil, reduced
cardiovascular events.

Well, I don't know. Elsewhere, I read that in the Lyon Heart Study they
used "margarine, olive oil and rapeseed oil rather than butter and cream."
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=59636

Anyway, to compare an (omega3) *enriched* food with a plain one seems not
so fair to me.
If the "good" came from the added omega3 acid fats, then let's just say:
have some fish oil, or eat more fish (that can also be found in a
Mediterranean diet, by the way).

Again, was the olive oil in the test an *extra virgin* olive oil?

Quoted message said:

METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals contained different
fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and salmon. Two olive oil meals also
contained antioxidant vitamins (C and E) or foods (balsamic vinegar and
salad). We measured serum lipoproteins and glucose and brachial artery
flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD), an index of endothelial function, before
and 3 h after each meal. RESULTS: All five meals significantly raised serum
triglycerides, but did not change other lipoproteins or glucose 3 h
postprandially. The olive oil meal reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2% to 9.9 +/-
4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between postprandial
changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47, p < 0.05). The remaining
four meals did not significantly reduce FMD. CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their
postprandial effect on endothelial function, the beneficial components of
the Mediterranean and Lyon Diet Heart Study diets appear to be
antioxidant-rich foods, including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives
such as vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Juhana Harju wrote:
:: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::: Enrico C wrote:
::
:::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra
:::::: Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and so
:::::: on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::::::
:::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste, scent
:::::: and healthy effects. 🙂
::
:: I made some mistakes in typing. I meant to say: One should not
:: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in this
:: article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/
:: rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to read
:: through.
::
:: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I find it very
interesting that canola oil would be better for endothelial function than
olive oil.

J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles, Links

The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on
endothelial function.

Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.

Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]

OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of components of
the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function, which may be an atherogenic
factor. BACKGROUND: The Mediterranean diet, containing olive oil, pasta,
fruits, vegetables, fish, and wine, is associated with an unexpectedly low
rate of cardiovascular events.

And it used olive oil, not canola or margarine.

Quoted message said:

The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched canola oil
for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich olive oil, reduced
cardiovascular events.

Well, I don't know. Elsewhere, I read that in the Lyon Heart Study they
used "margarine, olive oil and rapeseed oil rather than butter and cream."
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=59636

Anyway, comparing an (omega3) *enriched* food with a plain one seems not
so fair to me.
If the "good" came from the added omega3 acid fats, then let's just say:
have some fish oil, or eat more fish (that can also be found in a
Mediterranean diet, by the way).

Again, was the olive oil in the test an *extra virgin* olive oil?

Quoted message said:

METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals contained different
fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and salmon. Two olive oil meals also
contained antioxidant vitamins (C and E) or foods (balsamic vinegar and
salad). We measured serum lipoproteins and glucose and brachial artery
flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD), an index of endothelial function, before
and 3 h after each meal. RESULTS: All five meals significantly raised serum
triglycerides, but did not change other lipoproteins or glucose 3 h
postprandially. The olive oil meal reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2% to 9.9 +/-
4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between postprandial
changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47, p < 0.05). The remaining
four meals did not significantly reduce FMD. CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their
postprandial effect on endothelial function, the beneficial components of
the Mediterranean and Lyon Diet Heart Study diets appear to be
antioxidant-rich foods, including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives
such as vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

Enrico C wrote:
:: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
:: <news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :
::: Juhana Harju wrote:
::::: Juhana Harju wrote:
::::::: Enrico C wrote:
:::::
::::::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra
::::::::: Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and
::::::::: so on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
:::::::::
::::::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste,
::::::::: scent and healthy effects. 🙂
:::::
::::: One should not
::::: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in
::::: this article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was canola
::::: oil/ rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to
::::: read through.
:::::
::::: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
:::
::: This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I
::: find it very interesting that canola oil would be better for
::: endothelial function than olive oil.
:::
::: J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles, Links
:::
::: The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on
::: endothelial function.
:::
::: Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.
:::
::: Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
::: Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]
:::
::: OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of
::: components of the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function, which
::: may be an atherogenic factor. BACKGROUND: The Mediterranean diet,
::: containing olive oil, pasta, fruits, vegetables, fish, and wine, is
::: associated with an unexpectedly low rate of cardiovascular events.
::
:: And it used olive oil, not canola or margarine.

The Greek Mediterranean diet includes alpha-linolenic acid from other
sources. Walnuts, purslane (/Portulaca oleracea/)and dairy of pasterizing
animals are some sources of those omega-3 fatty acids. Substituting canola
oil for these original sources can be seen as a kind of application of the
Mediterranean diet.

::: The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
::: Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched
::: canola oil for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich
::: olive oil, reduced cardiovascular events.
::
:: Well, I don't know. Elsewhere, I read that in the Lyon Heart Study
:: they used "margarine, olive oil and rapeseed oil rather than butter
:: and cream."
::
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=59636

In the Lyon Diet Heart Study they used a special margarine made from canola
oil (rape seed oil).

:: Anyway, to compare an (omega3) *enriched* food with a plain one
:: seems not so fair to me.
:: If the "good" came from the added omega3 acid fats, then let's just
:: say: have some fish oil, or eat more fish (that can also be found in
:: a Mediterranean diet, by the way).

The reduced cardiovascular mortality and total mortality was not associated
with fish oils but alpha-linolenic acid in that study. In other studies
(like GISSI) there has been reduction in mortality due to supplementation
with fish oils.

:: Again, was the olive oil in the test an *extra virgin* olive oil?

I do not know, as I don't have access to the full text, but if that was a
well conducted study as it was stated in the article the oils have been
comparable. (I know the benefits -- higher phenolic content -- of extra
virgin olive oil.)

::: METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
::: five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals contained
::: different fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and salmon. Two olive
::: oil meals also contained antioxidant vitamins (C and E) or foods
::: (balsamic vinegar and salad). We measured serum lipoproteins and
::: glucose and brachial artery flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD), an
::: index of endothelial function, before and 3 h after each meal.
::: RESULTS: All five meals significantly raised serum triglycerides,
::: but did not change other lipoproteins or glucose 3 h
::: postprandially. The olive oil meal reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2%
::: to 9.9 +/-
::: 4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between
::: postprandial changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47, p <
::: 0.05). The remaining four meals did not significantly reduce FMD.
::: CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their postprandial effect on endothelial
::: function, the beneficial components of the Mediterranean and Lyon
::: Diet Heart Study diets appear to be antioxidant-rich foods,
::: including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives such as
::: vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642
:::
:::
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

--
Juhana

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:22:06 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C wrote:
:: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
:: <news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :
::: Juhana Harju wrote:
::::: Juhana Harju wrote:
::::::: Enrico C wrote:
:::::
::::::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO (Extra
::::::::: Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other oils, and
::::::::: so on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
:::::::::
::::::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste,
::::::::: scent and healthy effects. 🙂
:::::
::::: One should not
::::: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in
::::: this article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was canola
::::: oil/ rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good article to
::::: read through.
:::::
::::: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm
:::
::: This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I
::: find it very interesting that canola oil would be better for
::: endothelial function than olive oil.
:::
::: J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles, Links
:::
::: The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet on
::: endothelial function.
:::
::: Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.
:::
::: Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of Medicine,
::: Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]
:::
::: OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of
::: components of the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function, which
::: may be an atherogenic factor. BACKGROUND: The Mediterranean diet,
::: containing olive oil, pasta, fruits, vegetables, fish, and wine, is
::: associated with an unexpectedly low rate of cardiovascular events.
::
:: And it used olive oil, not canola or margarine.

The Greek Mediterranean diet includes alpha-linolenic acid from other
sources. Walnuts, purslane (/Portulaca oleracea/)and dairy of pasterizing
animals are some sources of those omega-3 fatty acids. Substituting canola
oil for these original sources can be seen as a kind of application of the
Mediterranean diet.

Walnuts and other nuts, herbs, dairy, are traditional in Italy too.
I think you can have alpha-linolenic acid from several traditional foods.

Quoted message said:

::: The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
::: Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched
::: canola oil for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich
::: olive oil, reduced cardiovascular events.
::
:: Well, I don't know. Elsewhere, I read that in the Lyon Heart Study
:: they used "margarine, olive oil and rapeseed oil rather than butter
:: and cream."
::
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=59636

In the Lyon Diet Heart Study they used a special margarine made from canola
oil (rape seed oil).

I see. That's weird, in my view, testing a *traditional* diet incorporating
in it a higly processed (GM?) food such as canola oil margarine.

Quoted message said:

:: Anyway, comparing an (omega3) *enriched* food with a plain one
:: seems not so fair to me.
:: If the "good" came from the added omega3 acid fats, then let's just
:: say: have some fish oil, or eat more fish (that can also be found in
:: a Mediterranean diet, by the way).

The reduced cardiovascular mortality and total mortality was not associated
with fish oils but alpha-linolenic acid in that study. In other studies
(like GISSI) there has been reduction in mortality due to supplementation
with fish oils.

:: Again, was the olive oil in the test an *extra virgin* olive oil?

I do not know, as I don't have access to the full text, but if that was a
well conducted study as it was stated in the article the oils have been
comparable. (I know the benefits -- higher phenolic content -- of extra
virgin olive oil.)

Ok. Anyway, if the benefits in that study specifically came from
alpha-linolenic acid in canola, comparing it to "extra virgin" wouldn't
change, as I gather EVO is not richer in alpha-linolenic acid.

I myselfd would get ALA from other, traditional foods, rather than fron
"new foods", but then... I am quite a traditionalist! 🙂

Quoted message said:

::: METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
::: five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals contained
::: different fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and salmon. Two olive
::: oil meals also contained antioxidant vitamins (C and E) or foods
::: (balsamic vinegar and salad). We measured serum lipoproteins and
::: glucose and brachial artery flow-mediated vasodilation (FMD), an
::: index of endothelial function, before and 3 h after each meal.
::: RESULTS: All five meals significantly raised serum triglycerides,
::: but did not change other lipoproteins or glucose 3 h
::: postprandially. The olive oil meal reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2%
::: to 9.9 +/-
::: 4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between
::: postprandial changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47, p <
::: 0.05). The remaining four meals did not significantly reduce FMD.
::: CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their postprandial effect on endothelial
::: function, the beneficial components of the Mediterranean and Lyon
::: Diet Heart Study diets appear to be antioxidant-rich foods,
::: including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives such as
::: vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642
:::
:::
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

Enrico C wrote:
:: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:22:06 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote:
::: Enrico C wrote:
::::: On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:36:19 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote:
:::::: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::::::: Juhana Harju wrote:
:::::::::: Enrico C wrote:
::::::::
:::::::::::: I agree with what Juhana said about the fact that EVO
:::::::::::: (Extra Virgin Olive) oil, is better for cooking than other
:::::::::::: oils, and so on, but I myself never cook oil nor other fat.
::::::::::::
:::::::::::: I think uncooked EVO oil keeps at best its original taste,
:::::::::::: scent and healthy effects. 🙂
::::::::
:::::::: One should not
:::::::: forget extra virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in
:::::::: this article the oil used in the Lyon diet heart study was
:::::::: canola oil/ rape seed oil, not olive oil. This is a very good
:::::::: article to read through.
::::::::
:::::::: http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

:::::: This is the original study Vogel is referring in the article. I
:::::: find it very interesting that canola oil would be better for
:::::: endothelial function than olive oil.
::::::
:::::: J Am Coll Cardiol. 2000 Nov 1;36(5):1455-60. Related Articles,
:::::: Links
::::::
:::::: The postprandial effect of components of the Mediterranean diet
:::::: on endothelial function.
::::::
:::::: Vogel RA, Corretti MC, Plotnick GD.
::::::
:::::: Department of Medicine, University of Maryland School of
:::::: Medicine, Baltimore, USA. [email hidden]
::::::
:::::: OBJECTIVES: This study investigated the postprandial effect of
:::::: components of the Mediterranean diet on endothelial function,
:::::: which may be an atherogenic factor. BACKGROUND: The
:::::: Mediterranean diet, containing olive oil, pasta, fruits,
:::::: vegetables, fish, and wine, is associated with an unexpectedly
:::::: low rate of cardiovascular events.
:::::
::::: And it used olive oil, not canola or margarine.
:::
::: The Greek Mediterranean diet includes alpha-linolenic acid from
::: other sources. Walnuts, purslane (/Portulaca oleracea/)and dairy of
::: pasterizing animals are some sources of those omega-3 fatty acids.
::: Substituting canola oil for these original sources can be seen as a
::: kind of application of the Mediterranean diet.
::
:: Walnuts and other nuts, herbs, dairy, are traditional in Italy too.
:: I think you can have alpha-linolenic acid from several traditional
:: foods.

I use walnuts and goat cheese too, but the Mediterranean herbs are not
easily available here. Flax seed is one local source.

:::::: The Lyon Diet Heart Study found that a
:::::: Mediterranean diet, which substituted omega-3-fatty-acid-enriched
:::::: canola oil for the traditionally consumed omega-9 fatty-acid-rich
:::::: olive oil, reduced cardiovascular events.
:::::
::::: Well, I don't know. Elsewhere, I read that in the Lyon Heart Study
::::: they used "margarine, olive oil and rapeseed oil rather than
::::: butter and cream."
:::::
:::
http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=59636
:::
::: In the Lyon Diet Heart Study they used a special margarine made
::: from canola oil (rape seed oil).
::
:: I see. That's weird, in my view, testing a *traditional* diet
:: incorporating in it a higly processed (GM?) food such as canola oil
:: margarine.

I guess the original idea was to test the benefits of a Mediterranean diet
high in MUFA in secondary prevention by using olive oil. But as the
volunteers did not like the taste of olive oil, it was substituted with
canola oil. Hence they got a diet which contained both MUFA and
alpha-linolenic acid as the traditional Mediterranean diets do.

As far as I know the present day canola oils are not a result of genetical
manipulation (GM) but plant breeding, which are different things. As a food
stuff, extra virgin canola oil is no more processed than extra virgin olive
oil -- both are made by cold pressing.

::::: Anyway, comparing an (omega3) *enriched* food with a plain one
::::: seems not so fair to me.
::::: If the "good" came from the added omega3 acid fats, then let's
::::: just say: have some fish oil, or eat more fish (that can also be
::::: found in a Mediterranean diet, by the way).
:::
::: The reduced cardiovascular mortality and total mortality was not
::: associated with fish oils but alpha-linolenic acid in that study.
::: In other studies (like GISSI) there has been reduction in mortality
::: due to supplementation with fish oils.
:::
::::: Again, was the olive oil in the test an *extra virgin* olive oil?
:::
::: I do not know, as I don't have access to the full text, but if that
::: was a well conducted study as it was stated in the article the oils
::: have been comparable. (I know the benefits -- higher phenolic
::: content -- of extra virgin olive oil.)
::
:: Ok. Anyway, if the benefits in that study specifically came from
:: alpha-linolenic acid in canola, comparing it to "extra virgin"
:: wouldn't change, as I gather EVO is not richer in alpha-linolenic
:: acid.
::
:: I myselfd would get ALA from other, traditional foods, rather than
:: fron "new foods", but then... I am quite a traditionalist! 🙂

The problem is how to make a healthy Mediterranean like diet easily
applicable to the large public in other (Western) countries. To name one
practical problem: problem I would like to buy purslane (/Portulaca
oleracea/)in my country, but it is not available here. So you have to adapt
to the local circumstances and cultures. Rape seed and turnip rape seed can
be easily cultivated here, so the canola oil is actually the most natural
source of alpha-linolenic acid in the Northern latitudes.

My present view is that olive oil is probably the healthiest oil for cooking
when you have to heat foods, but canola oil is probably a healthier choice
for salads.

:::::: METHODS: We fed 10 healthy, normolipidemic subjects
:::::: five meals containing 900 kcal and 50 g fat. Three meals
:::::: contained different fat sources: olive oil, canola oil, and
:::::: salmon. Two olive oil meals also contained antioxidant vitamins
:::::: (C and E) or foods (balsamic vinegar and salad). We measured
:::::: serum lipoproteins and glucose and brachial artery flow-mediated
:::::: vasodilation (FMD), an index of endothelial function, before and
:::::: 3 h after each meal. RESULTS: All five meals significantly
:::::: raised serum triglycerides, but did not change other
:::::: lipoproteins or glucose 3 h postprandially. The olive oil meal
:::::: reduced FMD 31% (14.3 +/- 4.2% to 9.9 +/-
:::::: 4.5%, p = 0.008). An inverse correlation was observed between
:::::: postprandial changes in serum triglycerides and FMD (r = -0.47,
:::::: p <
:::::: 0.05). The remaining four meals did not significantly reduce FMD.
:::::: CONCLUSIONS: In terms of their postprandial effect on endothelial
:::::: function, the beneficial components of the Mediterranean and Lyon
:::::: Diet Heart Study diets appear to be antioxidant-rich foods,
:::::: including vegetables, fruits, and their derivatives such as
:::::: vinegar, and omega-3-rich fish and canola oils. PMID: 11079642
::::::
::::::
:::
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079642&query_hl=27

--
Juhana

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:22:06 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

The Greek Mediterranean diet includes alpha-linolenic acid from other
sources. Walnuts, purslane (/Portulaca oleracea/)and dairy of pasterizing

I read that purslane even contains EPA Omega 3s.

Do you have some nutrional data about the content of LNA and EPA in
purslane, by any chance?

--
Enrico C

Juhana Harju said:

I made some mistakes in typing. I meant to say: One should not forget extra
virgin canola oil/rape seed oil. As pointed out in this article the oil used
in the Lyon diet heart study was canola oil/ rape seed oil, not olive oil.
This is a very good article to read through.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/13/1728_55672.htm

The Lyon diet heart study has been misused by some industry.

To test Mediterranean diet, Lyon diet heart study used rape seed oil.

People know Mediterranean diet as a diet using lot of olive oil, and
then industry start to sell olive oil as a healthy agent since Lyon
heart study was so positive against heart diseases.

Unfortunately, most olive oils contain squalene, an intermediate in
cholesterol synthesis, and the very few studies done with olive oil
shown no sign of depressing total cholesterol. Rather increasing it
slightly.
But rape seed oil contain lot of phytosterols and lower cholesterol.