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Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 December 2003
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Jan
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  1. http://tinyurl.com/z8r9

    Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other supplements
    for prostate disease show gains in popularity, credibility.
    Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    Dallas-After years of rejection and skepticism, physicians are finally
    beginning to accept complementary and alternative medicine-if the evidence is
    there.

    William R. Fair, MD, who used complementary medical techniques during his own
    bout with colon cancer, addressed the subject head on during a plenary session
    at the AUA meeting here. Dr. Fair, director of the Bendheim Prostate Diagnostic
    Center, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, gave examples of
    controversial therapies that are showing promise in rigorous scientific
    studies, including PC-SPES, vitamin E, selenium, and low-fat diets for prostate
    cancer, and saw palmetto for BPH.

    "My introduction to complementary and alternative medicine was by necessity,"
    said Dr. Fair, referring to his fight against cancer. "What I gleaned from
    this, with surprise, was how much science really exists in the field. While
    it's true that there are a lot of unknowns and a lot of things that need more
    exploration, that's also true of allopathic medicine. An estimated 15% of what
    we do is really evidence- based."

    Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than "alternative
    medicine." He believes the term "alternative" implies something other than
    standard medicine, whereas "complementary" suggests using these therapies in
    addition to traditional medicine. Diet, supplementation, exercise, and stress
    reduction "really should be part of standard medicine," he said.

    Urologists must keep up

    "The growth of complementary and alternative medicine is real," said Dr. Fair.
    "It's being driven by patients, and we have to keep up with it. The demand is
    growing, and if we're not aware, the parade will pass us by. In 1997, there
    were more patient visits to providers of alternative and complementary medicine
    than there were to primary care physicians in the U.S."

    Dr. Fair was citing a recent study by David Eisenberg, MD, of Beth Israel
    Deaconess Medical Center, Boston, and colleagues (JAMA 1998; 280:1569-75).
    According to the study, 46% of the American population uses alternative
    medicine, but less than 40% of those individuals have told their physicians.

    However, one skeptic challenged those numbers. Stephen Barrett, MD, a retired
    psychiatrist who operates the Quackwatch web site (www.quackwatch.com), charged
    that Dr. Eisenberg "classified things as alternative that are part of standard
    practice so he could pump up his numbers." For example, Dr. Eisenberg's study
    included relaxation techniques-"which have been part of standard psychological
    practice for years," said Dr. Barrett-along with massage and self-help groups.

    Dr. Barrett was a reviewer for two other articles in the JAMA issue in which
    Dr. Eisenberg's study appeared. The issue was devoted mainly to discussions of
    alternative and complementary medicine.

    (Quack Barrett isn't qualified to review)

    The Wall Street Journal estimated the annual market for complementary and
    alternative medicine at $50 billion, said Dr. Fair. Dr. Eisenberg, meanwhile,
    estimated 1997 out-of-pocket expenditures for such therapies to be $27 to $34
    billion, or about equal to the $29 billion in out-of- pocket expenditures on
    physician services.

  2. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The Wall Street Journal estimated the annual market for complementary and
    alternative medicine at $50 billion, said Dr. Fair. Dr. Eisenberg,


    meanwhile,

    Quoted message said:

    estimated 1997 out-of-pocket expenditures for such therapies to be $27 to


    $34

    Quoted message said:

    billion, or about equal to the $29 billion in out-of- pocket expenditures


    on

    Quoted message said:

    physician services.

    The altie quacks are grossing $50 billion, but they can't afford to prove
    their stuff safe and effective? Hmm.

    --Rich

  3. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    http://tinyurl.com/z8r9

    When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good idea
    to *also* post the original URL.

    Quoted message said:

    Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other
    supplements for prostate disease show gains in popularity,
    credibility. Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    [snip to the only point that I'm addressing here]

    Quoted message said:

    Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than
    "alternative medicine." He believes the term "alternative" implies
    something other than standard medicine, whereas "complementary"
    suggests using these therapies in addition to traditional medicine.
    Diet, supplementation, exercise, and stress reduction "really should
    be part of standard medicine," he said.

    1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from conventional
    medicine in favor of alternative/complementary medicine; in fact, quite the
    opposite.

    2) Note that none of the things he said "really should be part of standard
    medicine" are truly "alternative." Mainstream doctors have been making
    diet and exercise recommendations for ages, and stress-reduction techniques
    are pretty well-accepted, if not used as often as they could be. Some
    aspects of supplementation could be considered "alternative" although they
    aren't associated with mysticism and anti-rationalism the way, say, Hulda
    Clark's practices or the chiropractic doctrine of subluxations are.

    BTW, it was discovered that the reason PC-SPES showed signs of
    effectiveness is that it was actually deliberately adulterated with a
    prescription pharmaceutical drug.

  4. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds
    From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
    Date: 12/15/2003 7:46 AM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:

    http://tinyurl.com/z8r9

    When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good idea
    to *also* post the original URL.

    I don't see why since the tiny one takes you to it.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Complementary medicine growing by leaps and bounds : PC-SPES, other
    supplements for prostate disease show gains in popularity,
    credibility. Urology Times, August, 1999, by Norman Bauman

    Quoted message said:

    [snip to the only point that I'm addressing here]

    Quoted message said:

    Dr. Fair prefers to call it "complementary medicine" rather than

    Quoted message said:

    "alternative medicine." He believes the term "alternative" implies
    something other than standard medicine, whereas "complementary"
    suggests using these therapies in addition to traditional medicine.
    Diet, supplementation, exercise, an


    stress reduction "really should

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    be part of standard medicine," he said.

    Quoted message said:

    1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from conventional
    medicine in favor of alternative/complementary medicine; in fact, quite the


    opposite.

    That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both to work
    together.

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    2) Note that none of the things he said "really should be part of standard
    medicine" are truly "alternative." Mainstream doctors have been making
    diet and exercise recommendations for ages, and stress-reduction techniques
    are pretty well-accepted, if not used as often as they could be. Some
    aspects of supplementation could be considered "alternative" although they
    aren't associated with mysticism and anti-rationalism the way, say, Hulda
    Clark's practices or the chiropractic doctrine of subluxations are.

    BTW, it was discovered that the reason PC-SPES showed signs of
    effectiveness is that it was actually deliberately adulterated with a
    prescription pharmaceutical drug.

  5. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good
    idea to *also* post the original URL.

    I don't see why since the tiny one takes you to it.

    For a couple reasons:

    1) There's no guarantee that the link-shortening services will stay in
    business or that they won't eventually start expiring their shortcuts, yet
    Usenet posts are likely to be archived for a long time. Including the
    original URL means that someone reading an archived post in the future
    would be able to find it even if the shortened URL broke.

    2) The original URL can tell you a lot about what you're going to
    encounter. For example, some people might not want to load a PDF document,
    or might not be able to load a Microsoft Word document, and the original
    URL can tell them if that's going to be the case. The shortened URLs,
    OTOH, don't convey any information about the nature of the resource.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from
    conventional medicine in favor of alternative/complementary medicine;
    in fact, quite the


    opposite.

    That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both
    to work together.

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning
    *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in place
    of* it.

  6. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds
    From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
    Date: 12/15/2003 3:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When posting URLs created by tinyurl or makeashorterlink, it's a good
    idea to *also* post the original URL.

    I don't see why since the tiny one takes you to it.

    For a couple reasons:

    1) There's no guarantee that the link-shortening services will stay in
    business or that they won't eventually start expiring their shortcuts, yet
    Usenet posts are likely to be archived for a long time. Including the
    original URL means that someone reading an archived post in the future
    would be able to find it even if the shortened URL broke.

    2) The original URL can tell you a lot about what you're going to
    encounter. For example, some people might not want to load a PDF document,
    or might not be able to load a Microsoft Word document, and the original
    URL can tell them if that's going to be the case. The shortened URLs,
    OTOH, don't convey any information about the nature of the resource.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    1) Note that there's no mention of people turning *away* from
    conventional medicine in favor of alternative/complementary medicine;
    in fact, quite the


    opposite.

    That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both
    to work together.

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning
    *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in place
    of* it.

    Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    Jan

  7. [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are
    turning *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative
    medicine *in place of* it.

    Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    After doing a Google search, I have to revise my assertion to "you have on
    several occasions posted articles written by others that claim that people
    are turning *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative
    medicine *in place of* it. You have not commented on those claims." You
    made such a post as recently as two months ago:

    Lines: 166
    X-Admin: [email hidden]
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Date: 14 Oct 2003 05:47:44 GMT
    Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
    Subject: Re: Turning Away From Conventional MD's
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    http://faculty.valenciacc.edu/ckatz/pathfinders/alternative%20medicine.htm

    SCOPE:
    An increasing number of people are turning away from conventional MDs and
    turning to unconventional medicine such as acupuncture, hypnosis,
    homeopathy,
    biofeedback, and the like. The cause of this movement toward alternative
    medicine is a topic of debate. So too is the efficacy of the individual
    techniques. Extreme opponents of alternative medicine claim practitioners
    are
    quacks practicing medical fraud. Others insist the techniques are
    legitimate
    and should at least be offered to patients and even be reimbursed by
    insurance.

    [remainder of post snipped: the Message-ID will enable anyone who wants to
    see the full post to retrieve it]

  8. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Re Complementary Medicine Grows By Leaps & Bounds
    From: Eric Bohlman [email hidden]
    Date: 12/15/2003 6:04 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    [email hidden] (Jan) wrote in
    news:[email hidden]:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are
    turning *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative
    medicine *in place of* it.

    Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    After doing a Google search, I have to revise my assertion to "you have on
    several occasions posted articles written by others that claim that people
    are turning *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative
    medicine *in place of* it. You have not commented on those claims." You
    made such a post as recently as two months ago:

    Thank you.

    I use both conventional and alternative. I am looking forward to the day they
    can work together.

    Articles posted have both pro and con, some I agree with, some I don't.

    Jan

    Quoted message said:

    Lines: 166
    X-Admin: [email hidden]
    From: [email hidden] (Jan)
    Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative
    Date: 14 Oct 2003 05:47:44 GMT
    Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
    Subject: Re: Turning Away From Conventional MD's
    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    http://faculty.valenciacc.edu/ckatz/pathfinders/alternative%20medicine.htm

    SCOPE:
    An increasing number of people are turning away from conventional MDs and
    turning to unconventional medicine such as acupuncture, hypnosis,
    homeopathy,
    biofeedback, and the like. The cause of this movement toward alternative
    medicine is a topic of debate. So too is the efficacy of the individual
    techniques. Extreme opponents of alternative medicine claim practitioners
    are
    quacks practicing medical fraud. Others insist the techniques are
    legitimate
    and should at least be offered to patients and even be reimbursed by
    insurance.

    [remainder of post snipped: the Message-ID will enable anyone who wants to
    see the full post to retrieve it]

  9. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for both
    to work together.

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are turning
    *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in


    place

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of* it.

    Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what
    you've stated. No need to thank me.

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "...when one has exhausted the
    conventional route and found no answers, they turn to alternative medicine.
    Many have found the answer been treated and are regaining their health. It's
    called RESULTS."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "Or one can turn to alternative medicine and find an answer,,,,,,,,,,,,and
    that
    is WHY one half of people are turning to alternative medicine."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "ONE of the MAIN reasons people turn to alternative medicine, is because
    conv. medicine HAS NO ANSWERS,,,,,,,,,,,,"

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "Defects of conventional medicine are just one more reason to turn to
    alternative medicine, and stay OUT of hospitals."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "Furthmore, have you any clue as to WHY people are turning to alternative??

    BECASE THEY ARE DISSATIFIED WITH CONVENTIONAL MEDIC!NE!!!"

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "When conv. has no answers, it's time to turn to
    alternative. Many are finding answers and treatment that is working."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "And many times they get NO diagnoses because it isn't in the recipe book.
    Many
    people turn to alternative because conv. has no answers."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "Their *real* doctor? The reason most people are turning to AM is because
    their
    conv. doctor has NO answers, because REAL conditions are being denied."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "In many cases conv. medicine has no answers, that's because many *real*
    diseases are denied.

    People tuurn to alternative to get to the *root* of the problem."

    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    "You will find that most people are turning to alternative because
    conventional
    medicine has no answers."

  10. "Nana Weedkiller" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > That's never been an issue, at least not with me. The goal is for


    both

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > to work together.

    You have on several occasions specifically stated that people are


    turning

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    *away* from conventional medicine and using alternative medicine *in


    place

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of* it.

    Please do copy and paste the proof of this claim.

    I thought I might help you out a little to remind you of what
    you've stated. No need to thank me.

    Thanks anyway. Be prepared to be ignored, or possibly read a rebuttal using
    the semantics she learned in third grade. Nevermind, you already knew that.

    carabelli

  11. (Jan) said:

    I use both conventional and alternative. I am looking forward to the day they
    can work together.

    Very funny, indeed. The naturopath mafiosi always invite the
    scientific medicine to cooperate with them. But the naturopath mafia
    seeds hatred against scientific medicine whereever possible.

    There will NEVER be any kind of cooperation, as it is the naturopath
    mafia which wants to rule the world ALONE, and may it cost the life of
    all patients.

    Regards,

    Aribert Deckers
    --
    World Conference
    "Health Care Systems: Public and Private Management"

    http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_p0.htm

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