Re: clinton surgery question

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What medication could they be talking about.
Clinton wouldn't have been on coumadin?

There are several medications he may have been taking. May be Plavix (The
Super Aspirin) Or Just plain aspirin. It takes several days for aspirin to
leave the system. No way to reverse it. Coumadin can be reversed by use of
Vitamin K.
Jennifer S.
206/160/135

"Jennifer S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What medication could they be talking about.
Clinton wouldn't have been on coumadin?

There are several medications he may have been taking. May be Plavix (The
Super Aspirin) Or Just plain aspirin. It takes several days for aspirin to
leave the system. No way to reverse it. Coumadin can be reversed by use of
Vitamin K.
Jennifer S.
206/160/135

Would y'all do us all a favor and stop crossposting, please?

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Jennifer S. said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What medication could they be talking about.
Clinton wouldn't have been on coumadin?

There are several medications he may have been taking. May be Plavix (The
Super Aspirin) Or Just plain aspirin. It takes several days for aspirin to
leave the system. No way to reverse it.

Typically, our cardiothoracic surgery colleagues are not bothered by the
presence of aspirin so that would not have been the reason for delaying
the bypass surgery.

Quoted message said:

Coumadin can be reversed by use of
Vitamin K.

We typically use FFP to reverse the lack of clotting factors caused by
warfarin(Coumadin).

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

On TV his doctor said he was taking Plavix.
~goddess~
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jennifer S. said:

Quoted message said:

> What medication could they be talking about.
> Clinton wouldn't have been on coumadin?
>

There are several medications he may have been taking. May be Plavix (The
Super Aspirin) Or Just plain aspirin. It takes several days for aspirin
to
leave the system. No way to reverse it.

Typically, our cardiothoracic surgery colleagues are not bothered by the
presence of aspirin so that would not have been the reason for delaying
the bypass surgery.

Quoted message said:

Coumadin can be reversed by use of
Vitamin K.

We typically use FFP to reverse the lack of clotting factors caused by
warfarin(Coumadin).

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

|
| We typically use FFP to reverse the lack of clotting factors caused by
| warfarin(Coumadin).

We? When do you have time to practice medicine? You spend hours each day
crossposting to newsgroups. Shouldn't you be using your spare time reading
medical journals; updating your knowledge, and studying your Bible?
--
Peter
Before/Current Pix:
http://users.thelink.net/marengo/weightlosspix/weightlosspix.html

marengo said:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

|
| We typically use FFP to reverse the lack of clotting factors caused by
| warfarin(Coumadin).

We?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

When do you have time to practice medicine?

All the time.

Quoted message said:

You spend hours each day
crossposting to newsgroups.

For the blessed, crossposting takes only a few seconds.

Perhaps being blessed might motivate you to be "saved" by Christ whom I
love.

Quoted message said:

Shouldn't you be using your spare time reading
medical journals; updating your knowledge, and studying your Bible?

I do :-)

Quoted message said:

--
Peter

You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

marengo said:

We? When do you have time to practice medicine?

I don't.

Quoted message said:

You spend hours each day
crossposting to newsgroups. Shouldn't you be using your spare time reading
medical journals; updating your knowledge, and studying your Bible?

I don't include any of those tasks as "spare time".

LOL!!!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We? When do you have time to practice medicine?

I don't.

Quoted message said:

You spend hours each day
crossposting to newsgroups. Shouldn't you be using your spare time

reading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

medical journals; updating your knowledge, and studying your Bible?

I don't include any of those tasks as "spare time".

"Jennifer S." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

LOL!!!

I sense despair in your feigned laughter.

You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

Please consider the following to save yourself:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

excuse my ignorance: what FFP stands for?
TIA
BRD
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> je napisal v sporocilo
news:[email hidden] ...

Quoted message said:

Jennifer S. said:

Quoted message said:

> What medication could they be talking about.
> Clinton wouldn't have been on coumadin?
>

There are several medications he may have been taking. May be Plavix (The
Super Aspirin) Or Just plain aspirin. It takes several days for aspirin
to
leave the system. No way to reverse it.

Typically, our cardiothoracic surgery colleagues are not bothered by the
presence of aspirin so that would not have been the reason for delaying
the bypass surgery.

Quoted message said:

Coumadin can be reversed by use of
Vitamin K.

We typically use FFP to reverse the lack of clotting factors caused by
warfarin(Coumadin).

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

DP said:

excuse my ignorance: what FFP stands for?

Fresh Frozen Plasma (has active clotting factors).

Quoted message said:

TIA

You are welcome.

All praises belong to my heavenly Father, whom I love with all my heart, soul,
and mind :-)

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048

What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48

Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.

Servant to the humblest person in the universe,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,
which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws
which need human help to locate.

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

SBH

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve, especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative. But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

lol

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws
which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

MU said:

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve,

Bwahahahahahaha... <wipes tears of laughter from eyes>

<LOL> Could MU_shroom be more at odds with himself...? Could he point
out his own hypocritical bluster any better?

Quoted message said:

especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative.

<LOL> This is what Steve means when he says, "believers have no sense
of humor" and it particularly applies to your inability to perceive
anything but the most literal of expressions.

Quoted message said:

But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

<LOL> Trot out the pejoratives, fool, and prove what you really are.

Quoted message said:

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

lol

The truly funny part is how far off the mark MU_dbucket is when he
tries to load up his [censored] comments like this. No one could make
him look more stupid than he does himself. Funnier than a Jerry Lewis
movie...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

Based on the examples in SMC, yes. You, Chung, Carol, "John"... fools
all and corrupt all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws
which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

Logical conclusions from your behavior. Fool.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

Boy, oh boy. Could anyone have proved how humorless you are any
better...? Humorless buffoon.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

I bet Chung would call that a judgement. He specifically cautions
against that. You need a course in Remedial Chunglish...

Or would that be Changlish? Hard to tell based on your incoherent posts.

Bob

MU <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve, especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative. But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

lol

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws
which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

MU <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve, especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative.

COMMENT:

And just exactly where did I do that? The idea of compelling never
entered into this. As for informative, did you miss that word "or"?
FYI, I'm using "helpful" in the broadest sense, to mean helpful to god
or helpful in getting the problem solved. If the believer prays for
god to do something nice for somebody that god wouldn't otherwise do,
and god does it, there's a nice philosophical problem. But if prayer
never influences god to do something he wouldn't have done anyway even
without the prayer, then what's the point of praying for intercession?
Besides, most Christians believe prayer for intercession by god works,
sometimes. That's what they say they believe, anyway.

Quoted message said:

But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

COMMENT:

Well, heck, if I do it and you don't like it, it must be an
"obsession" of mine, eh? I think you're misusing the language. I don't
think you'd know an obsession if it bit you on the ass. Want to google
USENET and look at the fraction of MY total postings on the subject of
Christianity or religion, vs., say, your own? I probably run less
than 1000 to 1. How come it's my obsession and not yours?

Quoted message said:

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

COMMENT
No, you don't have it right. It's believers who claim to know god
intimately, and (strange to tell) they still can't agree on much about
him. I'm just subjecting what they say, to logical analysis. The way
you would with the testimony of any group of people who'd claimed to
observe and be intimately familiar with something. Saucer abductees,
for example. Say that probe went WHERE?? No, I'm not intimately
familiar with that Probulator process myself, though I did see
something like it on Futurama. Does that mean I can't be skeptical?

Quoted message said:

lol

Ah, you laugh at my skeptical laughter. That's nice. Now, back to your
probe stories….

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

No. "Always" here being used in the sense of seemingly without
interruption, definition #4. One of those non-literal usages of the
word, you know. You have to be a native speaker to get it.

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws

Quoted message said:

which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

COMMENT:
You're always free to fix up my errors, instead of just claiming they
exist. Does asking god to do good to anybody EVER result in ANY good
works by god that wouldn't have been done by god, if you hadn't
prayed? Yes or no? I don't think there's an excluded middle ground.
Either it never does, or at least it sometimes does.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

COMMENT:
Yes, and if I said drunk drivers were dangerous you'd want to know if
I thought every single drunk driver was always dangers every second.
Which is beside the point. Most generalizations that are true in
aggregate, aren't uniformly true. So what?

Quoted message said:

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

COMMENT:
If you think that was funny, you're only adding evidence to my case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

COMMENT
I need prayer bad? For what purpose? You think it will influence god
to do something he wouldn't otherwise do? Same old question. Let's see
you dodge it again.

SBH

On 18 Sep 2004 17:09:31 -0700, [email hidden] (Steve Harris

) said:

MU <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve, especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative. But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

lol

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws
which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

MU <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Sep 2004 11:54:29 -0700, Steve Harris [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

COMMENT:

And Chung believes that prayers for intercession actually cause god to
do people good, which god wouldn't otherwise do. Which means Chung,
and everybody else who prays for intercession, thinks that it's
necessary or helpful to be god's executive secretary, drawing problems
to god's attention. How's that for egoism?

Unmatched by your own, Steve, especially when you lump all intercessory
prayer as both compelling and informative.

COMMENT:

And just exactly where did I do that? The idea of compelling never
entered into this. As for informative, did you miss that word "or"?
FYI, I'm using "helpful" in the broadest sense, to mean helpful to god
or helpful in getting the problem solved. If the believer prays for
god to do something nice for somebody that god wouldn't otherwise do,
and god does it, there's a nice philosophical problem. But if prayer
never influences god to do something he wouldn't have done anyway even
without the prayer, then what's the point of praying for intercession?
Besides, most Christians believe prayer for intercession by god works,
sometimes. That's what they say they believe, anyway.

Quoted message said:

But then, being a non Christian
and all, knowing about God has become a (obsessive) specialty of yours.

COMMENT:

Well, heck, if I do it and you don't like it, it must be an
"obsession" of mine, eh? I think you're misusing the language. I don't
think you'd know an obsession if it bit you on the ass. Want to google
USENET and look at the fraction of MY total postings on the subject of
Christianity or religion, vs., say, your own? I probably run less
than 1000 to 1. How come it's my obsession and not yours?

Quoted message said:

Let's see if I have this right. You know intimately about a God yu impugn
and deny even exists every chance you get.

COMMENT
No, you don't have it right. It's believers who claim to know god
intimately, and (strange to tell) they still can't agree on much about
him. I'm just subjecting what they say, to logical analysis. The way
you would with the testimony of any group of people who'd claimed to
observe and be intimately familiar with something. Saucer abductees,
for example. Say that probe went WHERE?? No, I'm not intimately
familiar with that Probulator process myself, though I did see
something like it on Futurama. Does that mean I can't be skeptical?

Quoted message said:

lol

Ah, you laugh at my skeptical laughter. That's nice. Now, back to your
probe stories….

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These people who go on and on about their humility, are actually some
of the most narcissitic weenies you'll ever run across. They are
always to be found verbally trying to help god fix up the universe,

Always? Every single time?

No. "Always" here being used in the sense of seemingly without
interruption, definition #4. One of those non-literal usages of the
word, you know. You have to be a native speaker to get it.

Quoted message said:

which god (apparently imperfectly) designed with all kinds of flaws

Quoted message said:

which need human help to locate.

Your words, incorrect as they are.

COMMENT:
You're always free to fix up my errors, instead of just claiming they
exist. Does asking god to do good to anybody EVER result in ANY good
works by god that wouldn't have been done by god, if you hadn't
prayed? Yes or no? I don't think there's an excluded middle ground.
Either it never does, or at least it sometimes does.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All this is pretty hilarious. Of course believers have no sense of
humor, so they don't really appreciate it.

Yes, Steve, all believers always do all the things all the time as you
command.

COMMENT:
Yes, and if I said drunk drivers were dangerous you'd want to know if
I thought every single drunk driver was always dangers every second.
Which is beside the point. Most generalizations that are true in
aggregate, aren't uniformly true. So what?

Quoted message said:

That was a funny, Steve, in case you missed it.

COMMENT:
If you think that was funny, you're only adding evidence to my case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pray for me, Chung. God doesn't read sci.med, so I need it bad....

You need it bad regardless of what God does or doesn't read.

COMMENT
I need prayer bad? For what purpose? You think it will influence god
to do something he wouldn't otherwise do? Same old question. Let's see
you dodge it again.

SBH

Steve,

The answer is yes - God does do things for those who believe in Him
who ask Him, in faith, for help. These would be things that He does
not do for nonbelievers. For example, if a believer asks God to send
His Holy Spirit, the Comforter, to help him through a time of trial or
trouble, I believe the God will do this. He will not send His
Comforter to you, for example, to help you in a time of trial or
trouble because you don't believe in Him anyway and would reject His
efforts on your behalf and He's already got plenty to do anyway. If
you were to become a believer, He'd find the time to help you too.

Try it.

John

p.s.

John said:

Steve,

The answer is yes - God does do things for those who believe in Him
who ask Him, in faith, for help. These would be things that He does
not do for nonbelievers. For example, if a believer asks God to send
His Holy Spirit, the Comforter, to help him through a time of trial or
trouble, I believe the God will do this. He will not send His
Comforter to you, for example, to help you in a time of trial or
trouble because you don't believe in Him anyway and would reject His
efforts on your behalf and He's already got plenty to do anyway. If
you were to become a believer, He'd find the time to help you too.

Try it.

John

p.s. He <may> answer the prayer of a non-believer or on behalf of a
non-believer just to try to get your attention. Just because you're a
non-believer now doesn't mean you will always be. Something may
'just happen' that'll change your mind. God's will is that no one be
lost but His commitment to free-will trumps that.

John said:

p.s.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:05:31 -0600, John <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Steve,

The answer is yes - God does do things for those who believe in
Him who ask Him, in faith, for help. These would be things that
He does not do for nonbelievers.

<LOL> And the proof for this thesis would be...? Note the word "proof"
slightweight "John." It's only conjecture. Nothing but belief.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For example, if a believer asks God to send His Holy Spirit, the
Comforter, to help him through a time of trial or trouble, I
believe the God will do this. He will not send His Comforter to
you, for example, to help you in a time of trial or trouble
because you don't believe in Him anyway and would reject His
efforts on your behalf and He's already got plenty to do anyway.

<LOL> "...already got plenty to do anyway..." "John" could you
understand the infinite any less...? That's rhetorical, slow-boy.

God the infinite, the omnipotent, the omniscient, the creator of the
universe is too busy? <LOL> Sounds like you get together every now and
then and God gives you an earful about his busy days - "Dammit, "John"
I sure wish those comets would stay in their orbits. Every day, some
drift and I have to go push them back where they belong. And don't get
me started on the matter-antimatter thing..."

So, "John" do you give God some kind of tip for good service rendered
in your constant listing of demands? Maybe another fresh bush for him
to burn so he doesn't have to find one himself?

Looks like prayers come in two main varieties for you, "John." One is
"Hey God, I want something." And "Hey God, thanks for that something."
Sounds like Ebay for believers. Star ratings and all... "...already
got plenty to do anyway..." Idiot.

Could your limited grasp of the all-mighty be more evident?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you were to become a believer, He'd find the time to help you
too.

Bwahahaha...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Try it.

John

p.s. He <may> answer the prayer of a non-believer or on behalf of
a non-believer just to try to get your attention.

"John" hedges his bets with another burst of theological sophistry.
How simply lame. Ignore the likely fact that and unbeliever would
pray, how to distinguish between a wish fulfilled and a splendidly
happy coincidence? Right...

Quoted message said:

Just because you're a non-believer now doesn't mean you will always
be. Something may 'just happen' that'll change your mind. God's
will is that no one be lost but His commitment to free-will trumps
that.

Poor featherweight "John" runs around in Chungish circles trying to
make Steve appear to be flawed because he says he doesn't believe. The
reality here is that "John" hasn't offered anything to convince
anybody of anything. It's faith by slight offers and little reasons.

Oughta read things by smarter people, "John" and that would probably
be anybody who could print his name with a crayon.

Try some Walt Whitman, who said:
"I believe a leaf of grass is no less than the journey work of the stars,
And the pismire is equally perfect, and a grain of sand, and the egg
of the wren,
And the tree-toad is a chef-d'oeuvre for the highest,
And the running blackberry would adorn the parlors of heaven,
And the narrowest hinge in my hand puts to scorn all machinery,
And the cow crunching with depress'd head surpasses any statue,
And a mouse is miracle enough to stagger sextillions of infidels."

"John," you can't huckster faith like some late night infomercial
slicker. You can't bludgeon belief. You can't smarmily try to shame
people into accepting your vision. You offer a sense of the universe,
if you absolutely must, and there it is. The recipient of your words
chooses to accept or reject based on your wit and wisdom, the story
and how compelling it is, their cutrrent beliefs, and their prior
understandings. You fail most catastrophically on those points,
"John." As do Chung, Carol and MU_ckraker.

None of you gets the notion that your offering has to be accepted by
reasonable people who, generally, are disposed to be believers. But
your shameful displays fairly well guarantee your dismissal. You none
sound like reasonable people. You none behave like reasonable people.
You none confer respect as would a reasonable person. You none feel
connected with reasonable people.

Carol pukes her inanities and lectures people in these ringing and
incoherent diatribes. You deliver half-formed ideas so loosely
connected they wouldn't even work as fishnets, even if you did have
the courage to come out from your anonymous hiding place. MU_le is
merely ugly and malicious and deserves no respect because he's merely
a molester and a fomenter, and a cowardly one at that, anonymous like
you. Chung is driven with the furies of the panicky who need to dash
about frantically showering everyone with his vanity and
self-absorption all the while claiming he's doing it for other
reasons. You are all deluded and doing far more bad than good.

Bob

John <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Steve,

The answer is yes - God does do things for those who believe in Him
who ask Him, in faith, for help. These would be things that He does
not do for nonbelievers. For example, if a believer asks God to send
His Holy Spirit, the Comforter, to help him through a time of trial or
trouble, I believe the God will do this. He will not send His
Comforter to you, for example, to help you in a time of trial or
trouble because you don't believe in Him anyway and would reject His
efforts on your behalf and He's already got plenty to do anyway. If
you were to become a believer, He'd find the time to help you too.

Try it.

John

Comment,

He'd "find the time"? You must be joking.

Sending spiritual comfort bores me. The world needs something more.
The amount of innocent suffering in the world, in both animals and
humans, is gigantic. So it's perfectly obvious god does NOT "find the
time" to help all those who could really use help. The trapped and
dying animal, the starving African child, the good person with the bad
disease.

So the question before us, is, why not? And if you think god cleans
away some fraction of that physical suffering mentioned above because
somebody *asks* him to, but not otherwise, the question is "why?" Why
does god wait until asked? For simplicity's sake, please confine your
answer to third party intercession, where the innocent suffer being
prayed for is too ill or too young or two mentally impaired (animal or
human) to pray for him/her/itself.

You know, if I had the power to do something about some of the nasty
things of the world, I do it. A snap of my fingers and HIV, malaria,
and tuberculosis in this world would go the way of smallpox. And
everybody would get something to eat, too. And I'm an evil old
atheist. So how come god's meaner than I am?

SBH