Re: Barrett The Loser

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had due to
thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that practices
homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is called freedom of choice
and personal responsibility. Denying a patient the right to seek out a person
practicing homeopathy is a denial of freedom, and a paternalistic invasion of
privacy.
BL

"As the waves pass the rock, their shape is changed. There is a hologram of
the rock within the wave that comes forward and crashes on the beach, then
there's a reflected wave back." Ralph Abraham

"I'd like to learn to windsurf." BL

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had due to
thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

Hopefully, it is zero. I gave a rather extreme example, but more moderate ones
will do. How about someone telling their patient that taking Sea Silver means
they no longer need their insulin? How about giving someone a homoepathic to
take instead of their anti-epileptic meds? These are plenty more real world
examples where the promotion of UNPROVEN methods, usual with a profit motive,
leads to a patient doing something harmful. Even when intentions are good, a
person has a reasonable expection of their practitioner KNOWING what has been
ESTABLISHED as right and wrong. Trust has to be based on the absolute
certainty that their practitioner knows [censored] from Shine-ola. People who
prescribe homeopathics as anything other than a placebo are not able to make
such a distinction.

Quoted message said:

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that practices
homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is called freedom of
choice
and personal responsibility.

I'll agree that most people seeking out a homeopath aren't doing so for ER
conditions and that they have a notion about what homeopathy is.

Quoted message said:

Denying a patient the right to seek out a
person
practicing homeopathy is a denial of freedom, and a paternalistic invasion of
privacy.

In the absence of any replicated RCTs that show its efficacy for anything
(after 200 years, mind you!) why allow it to be called medicine?

I should further say that I don't see where paternalism enters into it. I
think there is nothing particularly "paternalistic" in seeing that one's
friends, family, co-workers, and fellow citizens go to properly qualified
healthcare professionals for their healthcare Needs. Actually, doesn't it seem
a bit maternalistic to insist on the best available healthcare for your loved
ones?

Perhaps homeopathy should be classifed as a religion, so its occult practices &
revenue would have the protections of a tax-exempt insitution. Professional
scam artists like carnival barkers & TV evangelistics can peddle it to the true
believers. That way, when the forelorn and fatalistic types that need some
kind of drama or occultism in their life can live iit up, big time!

Quoted message said:

BL

"BL 1204" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had due to
thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that

practices

Quoted message said:

homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is called freedom of

choice

Quoted message said:

and personal responsibility. Denying a patient the right to seek out a

person

Quoted message said:

practicing homeopathy is a denial of freedom, and a paternalistic invasion

of

Quoted message said:

privacy.
BL

I agree that patients should have what ever health care provider they
choose. However, the health care provider should not be free to offer
'therapies' that have no sound basis. Patients/consumers should be confident
that the choices offered actually work, or be informed that this or that
particular choice has no good basis and all bets are off.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed
It'll look great on the TV

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Barrett The Loser
From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
Date: 7/4/2003 4:32 PM Central Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"BL 1204" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had due to
thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that

practices

Quoted message said:

homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is called freedom of

choice

Quoted message said:

and personal responsibility. Denying a patient the right to seek out a

person

Quoted message said:

practicing homeopathy is a denial of freedom, and a paternalistic invasion

of

Quoted message said:

privacy.
BL

I agree that patients should have what ever health care provider they
choose. However, the health care provider should not be free to offer
'therapies' that have no sound basis

*sound* *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut*
*reasonable*
*significant* *credibile* *compelling*

And just who decides this??

Quoted message said:

Patients/consumers should be confident
that the choices offered actually work, or be informed that this or that
particular choice has no good basis and all bets are off.

Informed by Whom??

Jan

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Patients/consumers should be confident
that the choices offered actually work, or be informed that this or that
particular choice has no good basis and all bets are off.

Informed by Whom??

Big Brother.
BL

"As the waves pass the rock, their shape is changed. There is a hologram of
the rock within the wave that comes forward and crashes on the beach, then
there's a reflected wave back." Ralph Abraham

"I'd like to learn to windsurf." BL

In article <[email hidden]>,

(JDrew63929 at aol.com) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do not want there to be any licensure of homeopathy. There should be no
licensed healthcare practitioners using homeopathy in their practice.

I do not want it to be illegal for a person to make their own "remedies",

but

Quoted message said:

I
do not think they should be legal for sale.

As for amalgams, there may come a day when an even better compound comes
along
and replaces it. As for homeopathy, far better methods and medicines have
surpassed it one billion fold.

Control freak?
BL

Absolutely! Why, I'm so freaky, I think that people should be held
accountable for their actions, especially in the realm of healthcare.
Healthcare needs to be "controlled", BL, less cretinous quacks
peddle their water-based snake-oils as if they were medicines.

Surely, you don't advocate allowing MDs the right to lie to patients
and sell them specious remedies, like homeopaths do? Surely, you
wouldn't condone an MD giving a homepathic to a person suffering from
a peanut allergy. Yeah, I can hear it now, "My daughter died from
anaphalagic shock, but at least she didn't have to take some
pharmaceutical that would have saved her life. The doctor made such
a fine decision!"

You could add: "We don't need no stinking Benadryl and epinephrine!"
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(BL 1204) said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had
due to thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that
practices homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is
called freedom of choice and personal responsibility. Denying a
patient the right to seek out a person practicing homeopathy is a
denial of freedom, and a paternalistic invasion of privacy.

Only if they are told the truth about homeopathy's effectiveness (which
is pretty much zero for a peanut allergy). If they are lied to about it,
then it is NOT a "parternalistic invasion of privacy" to insist upon
accountability of homeopaths.
--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
| inconvenience me with questions?"

No therapies are 100%. That luxury can NEVER be offerred.

Only better than placebo can be offerred and if the placebo was given
correctly most medications would lose.

"Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"BL 1204" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yeah, I can
hear it now, "My daughter died from anaphalagic shock, but at least she
didn't
have to take some pharmaceutical that would have saved her life.

Hmmmm. And exactly how many anaphylactic reactions have people had due

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thinking their peanut allergy was cured due to homeopathy?

People *know* it when they are going to a health care provider that

practices

Quoted message said:

homeopathy. They are getting what they want. This is called freedom of

choice

Quoted message said:

and personal responsibility. Denying a patient the right to seek out a

person

Quoted message said:

practicing homeopathy is a denial of freedom, and a paternalistic

invasion

Quoted message said:

of

Quoted message said:

privacy.
BL

I agree that patients should have what ever health care provider they
choose. However, the health care provider should not be free to offer
'therapies' that have no sound basis. Patients/consumers should be

confident

Quoted message said:

that the choices offered actually work, or be informed that this or that
particular choice has no good basis and all bets are off.

--

Robert Bronsing

But that's okay, see the children bleed
It'll look great on the TV