Re: Any bike recommendations?

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen said:

I'm and old CroMo guy, I have a '92 Bianchi Alfana set up for road
(not crit) racing. When I was in peak condition my farthest ride was
85 miles in just less than 5 hrs. Find a good (reputable) local bike
shop and explain to the owner what you want to do. They should be
able to set you up with a good fit. BTW I ride exclusively on sew-ups
(tubulars) in the long run they are cheaper than clinchers. They can
run at less (some what) than the recommended pressure and they don't
pinch flat. If you can afford titanium then go for it, otherwise
stick with CroMo for comfort.

Good news! In the last decade things have improved! You can now get
lighter bikes that will allow you to improve those times, and nobody has
to screw around with tubulars any more.

I happen to like tubulars, I can change a flat in less than one minute,
and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

--
Roy Owen

Keep the leather side up,
and the rubber side down.

Roy Owen said:

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen said:

I'm and old CroMo guy, I have a '92 Bianchi Alfana set up for road
(not crit) racing. When I was in peak condition my farthest ride was
85 miles in just less than 5 hrs. Find a good (reputable) local bike
shop and explain to the owner what you want to do. They should be
able to set you up with a good fit. BTW I ride exclusively on
sew-ups (tubulars) in the long run they are cheaper than clinchers.
They can run at less (some what) than the recommended pressure and
they don't pinch flat. If you can afford titanium then go for it,
otherwise stick with CroMo for comfort.

Good news! In the last decade things have improved! You can now get
lighter bikes that will allow you to improve those times, and nobody
has to screw around with tubulars any more.

I happen to like tubulars,

Better stock up while you can.

Quoted message said:

I can change a flat in less than one minute,

Sure, but what about the second, third?

Quoted message said:

and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen said:

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen wrote:

>
> I'm and old CroMo guy, I have a '92 Bianchi Alfana set up for road
> (not crit) racing. When I was in peak condition my farthest ride
> was 85 miles in just less than 5 hrs. Find a good (reputable) local
> bike shop and explain to the owner what you want to do. They should
> be able to set you up with a good fit. BTW I ride exclusively on
> sew-ups (tubulars) in the long run they are cheaper than clinchers.
> They can run at less (some what) than the recommended pressure and
> they don't pinch flat. If you can afford titanium then go for it,
> otherwise stick with CroMo for comfort.

Good news! In the last decade things have improved! You can now get
lighter bikes that will allow you to improve those times, and nobody
has to screw around with tubulars any more.

I happen to like tubulars,

Better stock up while you can.

Quoted message said:

I can change a flat in less than one minute,

Sure, but what about the second, third?

Quoted message said:

and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

Properly glued Tubulars don't either.

--
Roy Owen

Keep the leather side up,
and the rubber side down.

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I happen to like tubulars,

Better stock up while you can.

Quoted message said:

I can change a flat in less than one minute,

Sure, but what about the second, third?

Quoted message said:

and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

C'mon Peter, a little reality please, not hearsay or 4th hand info.

Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are tubular only, are
at their highest production level and subsequent sales levels in
probably the last 10 years. More are sold today than ever in the last
decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Tubulars are NOT disappearing(better stock up while you can)..More
tubular makers than ever.

Most tubular riders with 1 spare tire will have the same experience as
I. I have had more than 1 flat on one ride twice since 1985, when I
started riding tubulars. I get VERY few flats, where my clincher riding
buddies get many.

All things being equal, when riding on any road, tubulars get fewer
flats since there are no pinch flats. A nail will puncture either, no
pinch flats means less flats.

Clinchers when flat roll off the rim frequently. Tubulars glued on
properly, do not. I have never had a tire I have glued on roll, again
on my own and on the hundreds of tubulars I have glued for others.

So, if ya got some 1st hand info about tubulars, please share it. If
you don't, share your misinformation with your clincher riding buddies
at the coffee shop.

Quoting Roy Owen <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen said:

and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

Properly glued Tubulars don't either.

If we're allowed to specify proper installation, properly inflated
clinchers don't pinch flat.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Kill the tomato!
Today is Leicesterday, May.

David Damerell said:

Quoting Roy Owen <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Peter Cole said:

Roy Owen wrote:

>and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

Properly glued Tubulars don't either.

If we're allowed to specify proper installation, properly inflated
clinchers don't pinch flat.

It's been my experience that they do. I've pinch flatted everything
from 700c x 28 85 psi touring tires to 700c x 20 150 psi racing tires.
Although the latter were more resistant.

--
Roy Owen

Keep the leather side up,
and the rubber side down.

Roy Owen said:

I happen to like tubulars, I can change a flat in less than one minute,
and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

I happen to like clinchers. I can change a flat in approximately one
minute, and I've never had a clincher pinch flat. If I run out of spare
tubes (I bring several on long randonneur rides; they're very light and
compact), I can always resort to the patch kit. As an added bonus,
clinchers have lower rolling resistance than tubulars with road glue.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

Roy Owen said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm and old CroMo guy, I have a '92 Bianchi Alfana set up for road
(not crit) racing. When I was in peak condition my farthest ride
was 85 miles in just less than 5 hrs. Find a good (reputable)
local bike shop and explain to the owner what you want to do.
They should be able to set you up with a good fit. BTW I ride
exclusively on sew-ups (tubulars) in the long run they are cheaper
than clinchers. They can run at less (some what) than the
recommended pressure and they don't pinch flat. If you can afford
titanium then go for it, otherwise stick with CroMo for comfort.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Good news! In the last decade things have improved! You can now get
lighter bikes that will allow you to improve those times, and
nobody has to screw around with tubulars any more.

Quoted message said:

I happen to like tubulars, I can change a flat in less than one
minute, and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

You don't say. You might be surprised but the term "snake bite" flat
came about with tubulars using latex tubes mainly because we got so
many of them and riders who came to Wednesday night tire patch
sessions at my place learned to look for the (often smaller) second
hole in the tube. So we called them snake bites for the nice pin hole
pairs they made.

If you like tubulars so much, I suspect you don't ride much either. I
ride plenty of miles and with other riders. We all get flats and are
glad to not have to return home and find the hole, unstitch the
tubular, patch, sew, and latex glue the base tape back in place. Your
one minute tire change is on the short end of the operation.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-repair.html

[email hidden]

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I happen to like tubulars,

Better stock up while you can.

Quoted message said:

I can change a flat in less than one minute,

Sure, but what about the second, third?

Quoted message said:

and tubulars *don't pinch flat*.

Sure, but clinchers don't roll.

C'mon Peter, a little reality please, not hearsay or 4th hand info.

Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are tubular only, are
at their highest production level and subsequent sales levels in
probably the last 10 years. More are sold today than ever in the last
decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Got any numbers to back that claim up? Boulder must be way ahead of
Boston, the trend hasn't shown up here yet. Tubular riders are easy to
spot because of their bulging pockets.

Quoted message said:

Most tubular riders with 1 spare tire will have the same experience as
I. I have had more than 1 flat on one ride twice since 1985, when I
started riding tubulars. I get VERY few flats, where my clincher riding
buddies get many.

Why would clinchers get more, barring pinch flats (I've never actually
had a pinch flat, so that's at least as much hearsay as rolling tubulars).

Quoted message said:

Clinchers when flat roll off the rim frequently. Tubulars glued on
properly, do not. I have never had a tire I have glued on roll, again
on my own and on the hundreds of tubulars I have glued for others.

Never rolled a clincher off the rim, either.

Quoted message said:

So, if ya got some 1st hand info about tubulars, please share it. If
you don't, share your misinformation with your clincher riding buddies
at the coffee shop.

Oh yeah -- what do you "share" with your tubular buddies? How to wash
wool shorts? <neener, neener>.

Boulder Pete said:

Quoted message said:

Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are
tubular only, are at their highest production level
and subsequent sales levels in probably the last 10
years. More are sold today than ever in the last
decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Boston Pete said:

Got any numbers to back that claim up? Boulder must be
way ahead of Boston, the trend hasn't shown up here yet.

Dear Peter & Peter,

Just as "Peter" is popular, but no match for "Dave" on this
newsgroup, tubulars are sold, but not in clincher quantities.

My Performance catalogue lists 6 sewups out of 46 road tires, 13%.

My Nashbar catalogue lists 7 sewups out of 33 road tires, 21%.

Neither company is known for listing anything that they can't sell.

Possibly Sheldon Brown's refusal to carry tubulars has proved his
regional muscle and influenced perceptions in the Boston area:

"We don't carry tubular tires . . ."
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims.html

Carl Fogel

Peter Cole said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are tubular only, are
at their highest production level and subsequent sales levels in
probably the last 10 years. More are sold today than ever in the last
decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Got any numbers to back that claim up? Boulder must be way ahead of
Boston, the trend hasn't shown up here yet. Tubular riders are easy to
spot because of their bulging pockets.

I don't have any numbers either, but it does seem tubies have been making a
comeback, with the exotic wheel trend of late. The fussier it is, the more
special it seems... to some people.

Matt O.

Quoted message said:

Boulder Pete said:

Quoted message said:

Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are
tubular only, are at their highest production level
and subsequent sales levels in probably the last 10
years. More are sold today than ever in the last
decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Boston Pete said:

Got any numbers to back that claim up? Boulder must be
way ahead of Boston, the trend hasn't shown up here yet.

Dear Peter & Peter,

Just as "Peter" is popular, but no match for "Dave" on this
newsgroup, tubulars are sold, but not in clincher quantities.

My Performance catalogue lists 6 sewups out of 46 road tires, 13%.

My Nashbar catalogue lists 7 sewups out of 33 road tires, 21%.

Neither company is known for listing anything that they can't sell.

Possibly Sheldon Brown's refusal to carry tubulars has proved his
regional muscle and influenced perceptions in the Boston area:

"We don't carry tubular tires . . ."
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims.html

Carl Fogel

Interesting but not the point of my repsonse to Peter. Tubulars are not
disappearing, do not roll, tubie riders are not stranded all over
Boulder county each Saturday becasue of multiple flats with onlky one
spre. in addition, most tubie users know how to fold one, under thew
saddle.

Tubies are a great alternative, but not everyone wants to use them. MY
point is discuss the REALITY of these tires, not the BS and blackmagic
of either type.

Quoted message said:

If you like tubulars so much, I suspect you don't ride much either.

I

Quoted message said:

ride plenty of miles and with other riders. We all get flats and are
glad to not have to return home and find the hole, unstitch the
tubular, patch, sew, and latex glue the base tape back in place.

Your

Quoted message said:

one minute tire change is on the short end of the operation.

Define 'don't ride much'...I ride about 9000-11,000 miles per year. on
Tubies mostly, some on my fixie, wet weather bike.
Not mega-riding like you, but I gotta work some.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Quoted message said:

Boulder Pete said:

> Tubulars, a lot because high end, carbon wheels are
> tubular only, are at their highest production level
> and subsequent sales levels in probably the last 10
> years. More are sold today than ever in the last
> decade and are a much bigger percentage than you imply.

Boston Pete said:

Got any numbers to back that claim up? Boulder must be
way ahead of Boston, the trend hasn't shown up here yet.

Dear Peter & Peter,

Just as "Peter" is popular, but no match for "Dave" on this
newsgroup, tubulars are sold, but not in clincher quantities.

My Performance catalogue lists 6 sewups out of 46 road tires, 13%.

My Nashbar catalogue lists 7 sewups out of 33 road tires, 21%.

Neither company is known for listing anything that they can't sell.

Possibly Sheldon Brown's refusal to carry tubulars has proved his
regional muscle and influenced perceptions in the Boston area:

"We don't carry tubular tires . . ."
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims.html

Carl Fogel

Interesting but not the point of my repsonse to Peter.

Dear Peter,

Actually, it's not my job to make your point.

Peter asked if you had any numbers. I provided some.

Do you have any numbers?

Carl Fogel

Peter Chisholm said:

Quoted message said:

If you like tubulars so much, I suspect you don't ride much either.
I ride plenty of miles and with other riders. We all get flats and
are glad to not have to return home and find the hole, unstitch the
tubular, patch, sew, and latex glue the base tape back in place.
Your one minute tire change is on the short end of the operation.

Quoted message said:

Define 'don't ride much'... I ride about 9000-11,000 miles per
year. on Tubies mostly, some on my fixie, wet weather bike. Not
mega-riding like you, but I gotta work some.

I don't know that I questioned whether you ride much but the
originator of this claim for his tubulars had all the earmarks of a
good bicycle owner who prefers esoteric stuff whether it has merit or
not. For most (aka overwhelming and vast majority of) riders, there
is neither performance, convenience, nor cost benefits to riding
tubular tires.

[email hidden]

According to many, there is a difference between *good* tubulars and
everything else. Many swear that Dugast tubular tires like these are
the "bee's knee" and nothing else even comes close. For more on Dugast
tubies;

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tubulars.asp

http://www.jitensha.com/eng/dugast.html