Re: AHA on margarine

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily implemented
by people.

Likely.
Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

Quoted message said:

Personally I don't use butter nor margarine.

So you don't follow AHA recommendations! 😉

--
Enrico C

Enrico C wrote:
:: On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
:: <news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :
::
::: I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily
::: implemented by people.
::
:: Likely.
:: Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

Actually I think that rape seed oil would be the best choice for salads and
with bread, but olive oil is better for cooking. Just have a look at the
Lyon Heart Study and the importance of alpha-linolenic acid.

::: Personally I don't use butter nor margarine.
::
:: So you don't follow AHA recommendations! 😉

Should I? ;-)

--
Juhana

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:42:28 +0200 in sci.med.nutrition, Enrico C
<[email hidden]> wrote,

Quoted message said:

Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

Gee, why don't they, considering that the first bullet point under
their recommendations is:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Use naturally occurring, unhydrogenated oil such as
canola or olive oil when possible.

Enrico C <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily implemented
by people.

Likely.
Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

They do. Olive oil and canola are to be used if possible,
according to the site in question. Did you read it before
commenting on it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Personally I don't use butter nor margarine.

So you don't follow AHA recommendations! 😉

She does.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 23:42:04 GMT, David Harmon wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:42:28 +0200 in sci.med.nutrition, Enrico C
<[email hidden]> wrote,

Quoted message said:

Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

Gee, why don't they, considering that the first bullet point under
their recommendations is:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

* Use naturally occurring, unhydrogenated oil such as
canola or olive oil when possible.

You are right, they mention it, so I was wrong in writing that they "don't
mention" it.

My point, though, is that they just recommend olive oil as a good oil, not
as a possible substitute for butter.
They still say:

| Use margarine as a substitute for butter,

The bottom line I read in AHA recommendations is:

- if you are looking for some salad dressing, then use canola or olive oil;

- instead of your usual butter, use margarine.

AHA *doesn't* recommend olive oil (or canola) instead of butter.

Compare with Harvard recommendations (Harvard School of Public Health web
site):

"Butter (Use Sparingly):" [...] "switching from butter to olive oil." [can
improve cholesterol levels]

[...]

"Good sources of healthy unsaturated fats include olive, canola, soy, corn,
sunflower, peanut, and other vegetable oils, as well as fatty fish such as
salmon. These healthy fats not only improve cholesterol levels (when eaten
in place of highly processed carbohydrates) but can also protect the heart
from sudden and potentially deadly rhythm problems.(3)"

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/pyramids.html

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 01:44:25 GMT, Jim Chinnis wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily implemented
by people.

Likely.
Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

They do. Olive oil and canola are to be used if possible,
according to the site in question.

See my answer to David Harmon.

--
Enrico C

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 11:42:28 +0200, Enrico C wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily implemented
by people.

Likely.
Why don't they even mention olive oil though?

I meant: why don't they mention olive oil as a replacement for butter, in
most cases?, (as the Harvard School of Public Health clearly does, and as
is customary in the Mediterranean region).

Actually, AHA recommendations do mention olive oil in their web page (so my
former statement "Why don't they even mention olive oil?" was formally
incorrect).
The point is they don't expressly mention olive oil as a replacement for
butter.
They still say "Use margarine" as the recommended alternative to butter.

--
Enrico C

Enrico C <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

AHA *doesn't* recommend olive oil (or canola) instead of butter.

They seem to do that at the start, and then lose it.

The topic on the web page is "Trans Fatty Acids, Butter and
Margarine." The sub-heading is "Is butter better than margarine?"

The first recommendation in that context is: "Use naturally
occurring, unhydrogenated oil such as canola or olive oil when
possible."

Unfortunately, they then muddy it up by saying in the second
bullet: "Look for processed foods made with unhydrogenated oil
rather than hydrogenated oil or saturated fat."

That has nothing to do with choosing butter or margarine, really.

So I'll agree that they have goofed it up.

The first bullet alone would do the whole job, anyway. Why look
for processed foods at all if you are worried about heart disease?
And why choose butter or margarine, ever, when anyone can find
olive oil?

I agree the AHA has penned something of a mess.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA [email hidden]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 09:28:52 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
<news:[email hidden]> on sci.med.nutrition :

Quoted message said:

Enrico C wrote:
:: I don't understand why on earth the American Heart Association web
:: site recommends:
::
:: "Use margarine as a substitute for butter...".
::
:: even if
::
:: "In clinical studies, trans fatty acids or hydrogenated fats tend to
:: raise total blood cholesterol levels and LDL ("bad"😉 cholesterol and
:: lower HDL ("good"😉 cholesterol when used instead of cis fatty acids
:: or natural oils. These changes may increase the risk of heart
:: disease."
::
:: Why don't they just recommend olive oil instead of butter (in most
:: cases)?

I guess they they want to give recommendation that can be easily implemented
by people. Personally I don't use butter nor margarine.

:: Here is the complete AHA recommendation I am referring to.
::
:: http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4776

There are also margarines which have not been hydrogenated. This has been
the situation is many European countries for over ten years, but the US food
industry has not been willing to make necessary changes. That is the reason
for hydrogenated margarines in the US markets.

Some margarines in Italy now write "No hydrogenated fats" on the label.
Both (spreadable) tubs and (hard) sticks.
So, they shouldn't contain any trans fats, right?
Anyway, I still have some doubts about those higly processed fats, for the
reasons discussed on this newsgroup [nickel and other metals used in
processing, to say one].

But what worries me most are the "hidden" shortenings in commercial foods,
even in some "healthy looking" breakfast cereals. We consumers don't really
know much about that partially hydrogenated stuff, do we?

--
Enrico C

Enrico C said:

"Good sources of healthy unsaturated fats include olive, canola, soy, corn,
sunflower, peanut, and other vegetable oils, as well as fatty fish such as
salmon. These healthy fats not only improve cholesterol levels (when eaten
in place of highly processed carbohydrates) but can also protect the heart
from sudden and potentially deadly rhythm problems.(3)"

So they didn¨t care about linoleic acid may increase LDL and decrease
HDL, but sum LDL and HDL decreases slightly??

While omega-3 acids do increase HDL and lowering LDL and totally
decrease sum

Some saturated fats in fact also increase HDL and decrease LDL :-)
(But increase total slightly)

soy, corn, sunflower, peanut and other vegetable oils are very high in
omega-6, except rape seed oil (ratio 2) and olive oil (ratio btw. 2
and 5), while the others are mostly above 20, depending on refining
and type of seed. Soy seed producers now tries to make the ratio as
high as possibly in order to increase shelf life of soy oil not sold
in shops. Some soy oils has ratio of n-6 : n-3 above 100 :-(