Re: About Trek liquids

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dan Volker said:

I can see you as the tough guy in the chess club while in high

school, a kid

Quoted message said:

who carefully planned to stay away from the football team or other

more

Quoted message said:

physical types. Or maybe you were the "big dog" in the AV club.

This is so [censored] funny I can hardly believe it.

Quoted message said:

back in highschool, the guys who made
cycling their primary sport, were the guys to wimpy to go out for

football

Quoted message said:

or any other contact sport. Now that we are out of college and in the

real

Quoted message said:

world, contact sports are largely unavailable, and impractical, so

sports

Quoted message said:

like cycling will prevail

Are you serious? I have a suggestion: go get a tattoo on your forehead
that says "I am a meathead" and be done with it. You could save a lot
of people the trouble of bothering to talk to you.

CC

Corvus,
This is not a slam by Dan Volker against cycling...Hell, mountain biking is
presently my favorite sport.
What it is, is an indictment of our culture. Cultural norms lead athletes
in highschool, to go out for Football if they have the ability. If they
"could" be good at football in college, the rewards for doing well in this
sport far outweigh any sociological benefit they could receive through
cycling instead. A major sport like Football would mean being on the fast
track to a better social existence, it would mean having the cutest girls in
school far more interested in you, it would mean local companies offering
you easy and good paying summer jobs, and it could mean high paying
scholarships if you are good enough to play college ball. This is a cultural
issue, and one very deeply ingrained in the Western New York area---I grew
up in Eden, and believe me, the only kids riding bikes competitively then,
were the ones who could not make Football or one of the other major sports.
What sports you participated in while in Highschool and College will have a
lot to do with shaping the way you relate to people the rest of your
life...and this gets us back on track in the discussion about JD.
If you did not grow up in the Buffalo area, maybe you should ask some local
kids what they think about what sports they would most like to star at. If
they are a gifted athlete, it will most likely be one of the major team
sports.

On another note, are you a member of the BBC ?

Dan V

On 2004-08-18, Dan Volker penned:

Quoted message said:

This is not a slam by Dan Volker against cycling...Hell, mountain biking is
presently my favorite sport.
What it is, is an indictment of our culture. Cultural norms lead athletes
in highschool, to go out for Football if they have the ability. If they
"could" be good at football in college, the rewards for doing well in this
sport far outweigh any sociological benefit they could receive through
cycling instead. A major sport like Football would mean being on the fast
track to a better social existence, it would mean having the cutest girls in
school far more interested in you, it would mean local companies offering
you easy and good paying summer jobs, and it could mean high paying
scholarships if you are good enough to play college ball. This is a cultural
issue, and one very deeply ingrained in the Western New York area---I grew
up in Eden, and believe me, the only kids riding bikes competitively then,
were the ones who could not make Football or one of the other major sports.
What sports you participated in while in Highschool and College will have a
lot to do with shaping the way you relate to people the rest of your
life...and this gets us back on track in the discussion about JD.
If you did not grow up in the Buffalo area, maybe you should ask some local
kids what they think about what sports they would most like to star at. If
they are a gifted athlete, it will most likely be one of the major team
sports.

So what you're saying is, mainstream people with mainstream motivations would
choose a high-profile sport if given the choice.

That's nice.

A major sport like football would mean being on the fast track to permanent
injury, blown-out knees, back, and brain. Brilliant. All of those are
distinct possibilities *before* you ever have a chance to hit the pros. Given
the extreme punishment football deals out and the extremely small chance of
making it to the big time, the only folks who would actually pin their hopes on
football are those who have no other expectation of success. Football is
live-action chess played with the bodies of those who didn't have the hope of
a less dangerous occupation.

Er, I think I got distracted. What I meant to say was, screw your cultural
norms. Just because you grew up thinking that football was hot [censored] doesn't
mean everyone else did.

Also, wtf does your growing up in Buffalo have to do with JD? Did JD grow up
in Buffalo? Or was that a round-about way of excusing your own prejudices by
explaining that you share them with the rest of NY?

Jeesh. I can't believe that you've gotten my back up enough that I'm
practically defending JD.

(Hint: there are plenty of gifted athletes that don't choose football. There
are plenty of athletes whose gifts aren't suited to football. Maybe you
should turn on the TV and check out some of the Olympic competition. Are you
saying they're all just failed football players? I bet they're crying all the
way to the podium.)

Grrr!

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2004-08-18, Dan Volker penned:

Quoted message said:

This is not a slam by Dan Volker against cycling...Hell, mountain biking

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

presently my favorite sport.
What it is, is an indictment of our culture. Cultural norms lead

athletes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in highschool, to go out for Football if they have the ability. If they
"could" be good at football in college, the rewards for doing well in

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sport far outweigh any sociological benefit they could receive through
cycling instead. A major sport like Football would mean being on the

fast

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

track to a better social existence, it would mean having the cutest

girls in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

school far more interested in you, it would mean local companies

offering

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you easy and good paying summer jobs, and it could mean high paying
scholarships if you are good enough to play college ball. This is a

cultural

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

issue, and one very deeply ingrained in the Western New York area---I

grew

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up in Eden, and believe me, the only kids riding bikes competitively

then,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

were the ones who could not make Football or one of the other major

sports.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What sports you participated in while in Highschool and College will

have a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

lot to do with shaping the way you relate to people the rest of your
life...and this gets us back on track in the discussion about JD.
If you did not grow up in the Buffalo area, maybe you should ask some

local

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

kids what they think about what sports they would most like to star at.

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they are a gifted athlete, it will most likely be one of the major team
sports.

So what you're saying is, mainstream people with mainstream motivations

would

Quoted message said:

choose a high-profile sport if given the choice.

That's nice.

A major sport like football would mean being on the fast track to

permanent

Quoted message said:

injury, blown-out knees, back, and brain. Brilliant. All of those are
distinct possibilities *before* you ever have a chance to hit the pros.

Given

Quoted message said:

the extreme punishment football deals out and the extremely small chance

of

Quoted message said:

making it to the big time, the only folks who would actually pin their

hopes on

Quoted message said:

football are those who have no other expectation of success. Football is
live-action chess played with the bodies of those who didn't have the hope

of

Quoted message said:

a less dangerous occupation.

Er, I think I got distracted. What I meant to say was, screw your

cultural

Quoted message said:

norms. Just because you grew up thinking that football was hot [censored]

doesn't

Quoted message said:

mean everyone else did.

They are not "my" norms. They belong to American culture. You can ridicule
them for the obvious stupidities, but they are still governing for more like
98% of the population, compared to cycling's less than 2% ( just pulled the
numbers out of thin air, but I imagine they are not far off).

Quoted message said:

Also, wtf does your growing up in Buffalo have to do with JD? Did JD grow

up

Quoted message said:

in Buffalo? Or was that a round-about way of excusing your own prejudices

by

Quoted message said:

explaining that you share them with the rest of NY?

This was to Corvus, who now lives in Buffalo. His comments did not sound
like they were from someone who had grown up in Buffalo, thus the question.

Quoted message said:

Jeesh. I can't believe that you've gotten my back up enough that I'm
practically defending JD.

(Hint: there are plenty of gifted athletes that don't choose football.

There

Quoted message said:

are plenty of athletes whose gifts aren't suited to football. Maybe you
should turn on the TV and check out some of the Olympic competition. Are

you

Quoted message said:

saying they're all just failed football players? I bet they're crying all

the

Quoted message said:

way to the podium.)

Actually I was talking about the larger team sports, and Football was just
the poster child for the discussion. Working class America will watch
football or baseball and glorify the athletes--these same working class
Americans will look at us on our bikes and have something for us, closer to
contempt. Again, this is the population at large, and not my attitude or
behavior.

As it relates to JD, if he could not play a major sport well enough to
letter in Highschool or college, it would explain alot about his
disfunctional personality here. Like I said, he looks more like a "Big Dog"
from the chess club :-)
If he is careful about the groups he interacts in, maybe he can keep talking
the way he does here.

As to the military angle, if he talked like this in bars with Navy, Marines
or Army guys, its pretty likely he'd have gotten his ass kicked regularly,
and at the very least, he would have been ( would still be) visiting the
brig on a regular basis. More likely, if he does hang out with other
military types, he talks differently than he does on AMB.

Dan V

Quoted message said:

Grrr!

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

"Corvus Corvax" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dan Volker said:

I can see you as the tough guy in the chess club while in high

school, a kid

Quoted message said:

who carefully planned to stay away from the football team or other

more

Quoted message said:

physical types. Or maybe you were the "big dog" in the AV club.

This is so [censored] funny I can hardly believe it.

Quoted message said:

back in highschool, the guys who made
cycling their primary sport, were the guys to wimpy to go out for

football

Quoted message said:

or any other contact sport. Now that we are out of college and in the

real

Quoted message said:

world, contact sports are largely unavailable, and impractical, so

sports

Quoted message said:

like cycling will prevail

Are you serious? I have a suggestion: go get a tattoo on your forehead
that says "I am a meathead" and be done with it. You could save a lot
of people the trouble of bothering to talk to you.

That might even make him more fun to laugh at as well.

JD

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

This is not a slam by Dan Volker against cycling...Hell, mountain biking is
presently my favorite sport.

How stylish of you. Too bad there are no mountains in Florida.

Quoted message said:

What it is, is an indictment of our culture.

No, it's an indictment of yourself.

Quoted message said:

Cultural norms lead athletes
in highschool, to go out for Football if they have the ability.

In what culture? You have got to be one of the most uncultured [censored]
in the USA.

Quoted message said:

If they
"could" be good at football in college, the rewards for doing well in this
sport far outweigh any sociological benefit they could receive through
cycling instead.

What planet are you from? Planet of the clones?

Quoted message said:

A major sport like Football would mean being on the fast
track to a better social existence, it would mean having the cutest girls in
school far more interested in you, it would mean local companies offering
you easy and good paying summer jobs, and it could mean high paying
scholarships if you are good enough to play college ball.

Where I went to high school, the surfers got all of the "cutest
girls". Your world is pathetically small.

Quoted message said:

This is a cultural
issue, and one very deeply ingrained in the Western New York area---I grew
up in Eden, and believe me, the only kids riding bikes competitively then,
were the ones who could not make Football or one of the other major sports.

No, it's a lack of culture issue because you obviously have a severe
lack of culture.

Quoted message said:

What sports you participated in while in Highschool and College will have a
lot to do with shaping the way you relate to people the rest of your
life...and this gets us back on track in the discussion about JD.

Idiocy at its finest, thanks for another laugh. How do you function
while being so narrow-minded?

Quoted message said:

If you did not grow up in the Buffalo area, maybe you should ask some local
kids what they think about what sports they would most like to star at. If
they are a gifted athlete, it will most likely be one of the major team
sports.

Buffalo is a flyspeck. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you
need to get out more often. If you think mainstream sports (which are
quite lame and full of crybaby multi-millionaires) are where the only
"gifted athletes" can be found, you need milti-millions of dollars to
buy yourself a clue. Now go watch more tv.

JD

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jeesh. I can't believe that you've gotten my back up enough that I'm
practically defending JD.

I don't need to be "defended". However if you wish to keep laughing
at Vo2lker and pointing out his idiocy, have at it. The more, the
merrier.

JD

JD said:

Where I went to high school, the surfers got all of the "cutest
girls".

In my school, it was the euphonium / valve trombone player, who also
lettered in golf despite never breaking 90.

Bill "perfectly accurate memory of all events at all times" S.

On 2004-08-18, S o r n i penned:

Quoted message said:

JD said:

Where I went to high school, the surfers got all of the "cutest girls".

In my school, it was the euphonium / valve trombone player, who also
lettered in golf despite never breaking 90.

Bill "perfectly accurate memory of all events at all times" S.

And in my school, there were a fair number of actors and artists we all
drooled over ... no, really! And then there was this gymnist guy freshman
year of college ... can you say "built"?

I didn't pay any attention to football players except for one friend of
mine who did varsity football and wrestling, as well as being just about
the smartest guy in the school. The sports may have contributed to his
awesome tush, but other than that didn't make much of an impression on
me. (He went for a career in physics rather than college football ...
funny, that.)

When I think back to college and who was "most popular", football players just
weren't any better represented than any other group. Cheerleaders were, but I
think that just goes to show that cute people tend to be popular.

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

On 2004-08-18, Dan Volker penned:

Quoted message said:

They are not "my" norms. They belong to American culture. You can ridicule
them for the obvious stupidities, but they are still governing for more like
98% of the population, compared to cycling's less than 2% ( just pulled the
numbers out of thin air, but I imagine they are not far off).

I think I've figured it out. You must have grown up on the set of one of
those cookie-cutter high school "my life sucks" movies. Your description of
"reality" looks much more like parody from my end. Was it Heathers, perhaps?

Quoted message said:

Actually I was talking about the larger team sports, and Football was just
the poster child for the discussion. Working class America will watch
football or baseball and glorify the athletes--these same working class
Americans will look at us on our bikes and have something for us, closer to
contempt. Again, this is the population at large, and not my attitude or
behavior.

Working class America also watches figure skating and gymnastics. Go
figure. There aren't enough people in the rest of America to justify the air
time.

Something occurs to me, though. Your description of "reality"
demonstrates a conspicuous lack of female representation. You talk
about guys learning social and business interactions by playing sports
-- now, where do you suppose women learn to interact? You talk about
all sorts of social scenarios, and yet never do women show up, except as
prizes to be earned. Your theories are all based on a subset of the
population. Give that some consideration.

Quoted message said:

As it relates to JD, if he could not play a major sport well enough to
letter in Highschool or college, it would explain alot about his
disfunctional personality here. Like I said, he looks more like a "Big Dog"
from the chess club :-) If he is careful about the groups he interacts in,
maybe he can keep talking the way he does here.

Right. Cuz everyone who didn't letter in a "major" sport turns into a
misanthrope. Like my husband the swimmer. Or me and my martial arts.

Your theories are ridiculous. Most people don't letter in team sports,
so suggesting that those people are all somehow disfunctional is
laughable. There just isn't enough room. I don't know about you, but
my graduating class was 650 people strong. You had to be a freakin'
prodigy to get onto the football team, the track team, to even get a bit
part in the school play ...

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

On 2004-08-18, JD penned:

Quoted message said:

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

If you did not grow up in the Buffalo area, maybe you should ask some local
kids what they think about what sports they would most like to star at. If
they are a gifted athlete, it will most likely be one of the major team
sports.

Buffalo is a flyspeck. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you need
to get out more often. If you think mainstream sports (which are quite lame
and full of crybaby multi-millionaires) are where the only "gifted athletes"
can be found, you need milti-millions of dollars to buy yourself a clue.
Now go watch more tv.

Wait, wait! This triggered something in my memory. Specifically, an Ani
DiFranco concert (she's from Buffalo, Dan, though I doubt she's your type)
where she said that, now that Buffalo has ice hockey, "there's so much hockey
it's just not safe to go out anymore!" I have the bootleg somewhere and can
probably dig up the soundbite.

Anyhoo, Dan, have you been back to Buffalo lately? Maybe ice hockey is
the new pink.

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

On 2004-08-18, JD penned:

Quoted message said:

"Monique Y. Mudama" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Jeesh. I can't believe that you've gotten my back up enough that I'm
practically defending JD.

I don't need to be "defended". However if you wish to keep laughing at
Vo2lker and pointing out his idiocy, have at it. The more, the merrier.

No worries, I'm not defending. Not laughing, either. Just shaking my
head in disbelief.

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As to the military angle, if he talked like this in bars with Navy,

Marines

Quoted message said:

or Army guys, its pretty likely he'd have gotten his ass kicked regularly,
and at the very least, he would have been ( would still be) visiting the
brig on a regular basis. More likely, if he does hang out with other
military types, he talks differently than he does on AMB.

I don't think you have a clue how people of certain backgrounds and
capabilities interact.
If you did you would understand that there is a camaraderie within certain
groups
(especially Special Opns). It's rough; it's loud; and it's sometimes
physical.

I would argue that it's your SEAL friends who act differently around YOU.

Marty

Marty said:

I would argue that it's your SEAL friends who act differently around YOU.

Well, after seeing him in day-glo tights, you can't really blame them, can
you? :-)

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

"Marty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As to the military angle, if he talked like this in bars with Navy,

Marines

Quoted message said:

or Army guys, its pretty likely he'd have gotten his ass kicked

regularly,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and at the very least, he would have been ( would still be) visiting

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brig on a regular basis. More likely, if he does hang out with other
military types, he talks differently than he does on AMB.

I don't think you have a clue how people of certain backgrounds and
capabilities interact.
If you did you would understand that there is a camaraderie within certain
groups
(especially Special Opns). It's rough; it's loud; and it's sometimes
physical.

I would argue that it's your SEAL friends who act differently around YOU.

Marty

In this case, we are not talking about a situation where any camaraderie
exists---the posts here in comparison, are to near total strangers. I doubt
you are trying to say that SEALs that are wondering around within the
public, typically are rough, loud, and physical to people they don't know.

Dan

Monique says:

Quoted message said:

Most people don't letter in team sports,

Me, me! I lettered in rifle shooting (honest, no kidding) at URI in 1973/4. A
great year.

Steve "now THERE's a sport where you need a HRM..."

On 2004-08-19, Stephen Baker penned:

Quoted message said:

Monique says:

Quoted message said:

Most people don't letter in team sports,

Me, me! I lettered in rifle shooting (honest, no kidding) at URI in 1973/4.
A great year.

Steve "now THERE's a sport where you need a HRM..."

I'm pretty sure that's not what I meant by team sports =P

--
monique

"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live."
-- Mark Twain

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:18:43 GMT, S o r n i <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

JD said:

Where I went to high school, the surfers got all of the "cutest
girls".

I know absolutely nothing about this :-) :-)

Quoted message said:

In my school, it was the euphonium / valve trombone player, who also
lettered in golf despite never breaking 90.

Bill "perfectly accurate memory of all events at all times" S.

Alright, what the heck does "lettered" mean, or are you guys misspelling
littered?!?!?!

--
Slacker - the uneducated [censored]

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Marty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dan Volker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As to the military angle, if he talked like this in bars with Navy,

Marines

Quoted message said:

or Army guys, its pretty likely he'd have gotten his ass kicked

regularly,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and at the very least, he would have been ( would still be) visiting

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

brig on a regular basis. More likely, if he does hang out with other
military types, he talks differently than he does on AMB.

I don't think you have a clue how people of certain backgrounds and
capabilities interact.
If you did you would understand that there is a camaraderie within

certain

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

groups
(especially Special Opns). It's rough; it's loud; and it's sometimes
physical.

I would argue that it's your SEAL friends who act differently around

YOU.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Marty

In this case, we are not talking about a situation where any camaraderie
exists---the posts here in comparison, are to near total strangers. I

doubt

Quoted message said:

you are trying to say that SEALs that are wondering around within the
public, typically are rough, loud, and physical to people they don't know.

Dan

I know SEALS who are all of that and more but no that's not what I'm saying.

You missed my point but for the life of me I don't feel like explaining
it...............

Marty

Marty said:

You missed my point but for the life of me I don't feel like explaining
it...............

It's a lot like talking to a doorknob, isn't it. Only less rewarding. 😉

gabrielle