Re: A new(ish) Cycle Lane

Quoted message said:

I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Cheers
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Quoted message said:

I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

In message <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Quoted message said:

I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

Of course not. But then that raises the question, why are my hard-earned
taxes used to construct useless cycle facilities? Also, car drivers can
get really aggressive when you are not using the adjacent facility.
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

It happens that Bob Downie formulated :

Quoted message said:

Also, car drivers can get
really aggressive when you are not using the adjacent facility.

Not to mention the police and judiciary... :-(

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:06:50 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

In message <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

>I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
>entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
>following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

Of course not. But then that raises the question, why are my hard-earned
taxes used to construct useless cycle facilities?

Perhaps you should add this to your letter.

in message <[email hidden]>, Bob Downie

('BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk') said:

Quoted message said:

I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

FWIW the Scottish Executive's guidance on cycle facility design is here:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/cbd/cbd-00.asp
The section on cycle lanes starts at paragraph 5.22; widths of cycle
lanes are specified in table 5.1, and the 'absolute minimum width' is
stated as 1.5 metres. Cycle lanes outside adjacent parking are tackled
in figure 5.4 and table 5.3, which specifies that that an absolute
minimum of 0.5 metres must be left between the outside of the parking
bay and the inside of the cycle lane.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"This young man has not the faintest idea how socialists think and does
not begin to understand the mentality of the party he has been elected
to lead. He is quite simply a liberal"
-- Ken Coates MEP (Lab) of Tony Blair

Quoted message said:

FWIW the Scottish Executive's guidance on cycle facility design is here:
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/library2/cbd/cbd-00.asp
The section on cycle lanes starts at paragraph 5.22; widths of cycle
lanes are specified in table 5.1, and the 'absolute minimum width' is
stated as 1.5 metres. Cycle lanes outside adjacent parking are tackled
in figure 5.4 and table 5.3, which specifies that that an absolute
minimum of 0.5 metres must be left between the outside of the parking
bay and the inside of the cycle lane.

Glistering even more!

Cheers
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

Quoted message said:

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

No, BUT:

- it is a huge waste of money for councils to install cycle lanes that
are not fit for purpose.

- by having cycle lanes that encourage riders to take a dangerous road
position, it is likely that many less experienced cyclists will simply
follow the markings, thus placing themselves at severe risk.

- some motorists are likely to be angered by cyclists riding outside
the marked lane and may react badly to those and other cyclists.

If it is worth installing a cycle lane, it's worth doing properly. If
you're not going to do it properly, don't do it at all.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

Quoted message said:

I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

No - but he ought to be, for obstruction.

ian henden said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

>I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
>entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
>following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

No - but he ought to be, for obstruction.

I'm sure there's a judge in Salop who would agree with you. He has been
roundly condemned in this very group.

ian henden said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 15:14:49 +0100, Bob Downie

BobMail@downie-geo#n0spam#.co.uk said:

>I appreciate all that you say (how about some pics for our
>entertainment?) but I suspect that all you'll get is a typical "We wuz
>following the approved guidelines so.... on yer bike!"

You are probably right but as I have to use the wretched thing, whether
I like it or not, I feel I have to pursue it. This one's personal!

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway outside
the cycle lane?

No - but he ought to be, for obstruction.

Then book everyone else who happens to want to use the road in a car
taking up goodness knows how much space on the highway. I have
absolutely no sympathy for your visions of a bicycling apartheid where
even the craziest facility is there as an excuse to try to remove
cyclists from the road.

At which point should a cyclist be allowed to use the road? When is a
cycling facility so bad that it is then permissible for a cyclist to
step into the holy of holies?

If the mere existence of a cycle facility, irrespective of its
condition, is a sufficient cause to ban cyclists form the road then it
raises interestign philosophical questions. How far away does a cycle
facility have to be from the carriageway to still be cause for
exclusion of cyclists? How dangersous/slow/congested? Taken to the
logical platonic conclusion, if an unrideable, distant cycle facility
is cause enough, why even bother with physical existence? is the
concept or idea, or even the desire for a cycle lane (which must exist
as we can envision it) a sufficient casue as it is to all intents and
purposes as unusable as many physical ones..

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, David

Martin (') said:

ian henden said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Are you prevented by law from using the surface of the highway
outside the cycle lane?

No - but he ought to be, for obstruction.

Then book everyone else who happens to want to use the road in a car
taking up goodness knows how much space on the highway. I have
absolutely no sympathy for your visions of a bicycling apartheid where
even the craziest facility is there as an excuse to try to remove
cyclists from the road.

At which point should a cyclist be allowed to use the road? When is a
cycling facility so bad that it is then permissible for a cyclist to
step into the holy of holies?

If the mere existence of a cycle facility, irrespective of its
condition, is a sufficient cause to ban cyclists form the road then it
raises interestign philosophical questions. How far away does a cycle
facility have to be from the carriageway to still be cause for
exclusion of cyclists? How dangersous/slow/congested? Taken to the
logical platonic conclusion, if an unrideable, distant cycle facility
is cause enough, why even bother with physical existence? is the
concept or idea, or even the desire for a cycle lane (which must exist
as we can envision it) a sufficient casue as it is to all intents and
purposes as unusable as many physical ones..

And, more to the point, is it better to have cyclists moving at 25mph
sharing a lane with babies in canvas push-chairs travelling at 2mph or
with motorists in steel cars travelling at 60mph?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

David Martin wrote on 04/09/2006 20:09 +0100:

Quoted message said:

ian henden said:

No - but he ought to be, for obstruction.

Then book everyone else who happens to want to use the road in a car
taking up goodness knows how much space on the highway. I have
absolutely no sympathy for your visions of a bicycling apartheid where
even the craziest facility is there as an excuse to try to remove
cyclists from the road.

Would love to see Ian's reaction if buses were booked for obstruction
every time they strayed outside a bus lane.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Simon Brooke said:

And, more to the point, is it better to have cyclists moving at 25mph
sharing a lane with babies in canvas push-chairs travelling at 2mph or
with motorists in steel cars travelling at 60mph?

I'll take my luck with the cars, they're less likely to suddenly stop in front
of me without warning because baby's chucked something out of the pram.

--
Stephen Patterson :: [email hidden] :: http://patter.mine.nu/
GPG: E3E8E974 :: Jabber: [email hidden]
"At night, the razor weasels come."

On Mon, 04 Sep 2006 22:34:31 +0100 someone who may be Tony Raven
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Would love to see Ian's reaction if buses were booked for obstruction
every time they strayed outside a bus lane.

Indeed. I have seen bus drivers doing this many times in Edinburgh
this morning. On a couple of occasions the bus drivers doing this
were causing an obstruction to cyclists.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

Indeed. I have seen bus drivers doing this many times in Edinburgh
this morning. On a couple of occasions the bus drivers doing this
were causing an obstruction to cyclists.

IMO the biggest obstruction to traffic flow in Edinburgh is that twunt
dressed in country gent gear at the door to the Balmoral. He seems to
think it is his God Given to stop any taxi in the middle of the road so
his over tipping yanks can take a ride to the castle. This invariably
prevents any traffic flowing onto Princes Street from the East.

For those souls who have never been to this fine city, the Balmoral is a
snobbish hotel on the main shopping street next to the train station.

I suppose I had better admit to being held up this morning thanks to
this weaselling groveller.

--
Don.

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:12:55 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

IMO the biggest obstruction to traffic flow in Edinburgh is that twunt
dressed in country gent gear at the door to the Balmoral. He seems to
think it is his God Given to stop any taxi in the middle of the road so
his over tipping yanks can take a ride to the castle. This invariably
prevents any traffic flowing onto Princes Street from the East.

He may prevent motorised traffic from flowing. However, cyclists and
pedestrians usually continue flowing.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 21:12:55 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

IMO the biggest obstruction to traffic flow in Edinburgh is that twunt
dressed in country gent gear at the door to the Balmoral. He seems to
think it is his God Given to stop any taxi in the middle of the road so
his over tipping yanks can take a ride to the castle. This invariably
prevents any traffic flowing onto Princes Street from the East.

He may prevent motorised traffic from flowing. However, cyclists and
pedestrians usually continue flowing.

Usually you are correct, but he has been known to cause buses turning
left off the Bridges to back up, and when this happens, you get a bus
stuck in the process of turning cutting off the entire width of the road
with it's front end over the central refuge. It can be tricky to pass.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"I fought the Dharma, and the Dharma won." (Allen Ginsberg)