Re: 84 Olympics memory

Recent photo at
http://tinyurl.com/dm7j5
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/georgia05/tech/?id=hed/JD05tdgstg317

Dan Lenski said:

Anybody have a photo of these? I'm curious and have never seen what
they look like...

Dan

LewW said:

Recent photo at
http://tinyurl.com/dm7j5
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/apr05/georgia05/tech/?id=hed/JD05tdgstg317

Very interesting - AX brake at the Tour de Georgia, but not the TdF:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/?id=tour051/cycling-tdf2005-itt-arms-56
....and...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tour05/?id=tour051/48

yet at the 2004 TdF, Discovery wasn't using AX's:

2004 TTT bikes:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour04.php?id=photos/2004/tour04/stage4/tdf04_137
and 2004 ITT bike:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour04.php?id=photos/2004/tour04/stage19/24

Go figure.

Mark

Despite your comment above, there is at least one set of AX brakes in a
fuzzy part of the photo, on the second-from-front bike, just outside of
the lens depth of field.
Pat Smith

spincircles said:

Despite your comment above, there is at least one set of AX brakes in a
fuzzy part of the photo, on the second-from-front bike, just outside of
the lens depth of field.
Pat Smith

Thanks for pointing that out.

Mark

I must say, I still don't really get it... What exactly is the
advantage of these brakes? They're a little more aerodynamic?

I know Lance uses a downtube shifter on the mountain stage for the few
grams of weight advantage, so I guess he really does pay attention to
minute component details...

Dan

I'm not sure there is any real advantage. Probably it's mostly just
habit. For some reason, Lance liked them so stayed with them. I don't
think he used them this year and it didn't seem to hurt. I also
believe they use a roller cam.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eagle Jackson said:

I'm not sure there is any real advantage. Probably it's mostly just
habit. For some reason, Lance liked them so stayed with them. I don't
think he used them this year and it didn't seem to hurt. I also
believe they use a roller cam.

Probably all correct. Compared to a sidepull brake, these centrepull
brakes allowed for a a cable routing and arms that were in the
aerodynamic "shadow" of the fork and seatstays. To put it another way,
they reduced the frontal area slightly.

Whether there was any actual aero benefit is another question. I have
not seen anyone recently use AX derailers 🙂.

Dad's old Sears bike had an Adamas AX group on it,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eagle Jackson said:

I'm not sure there is any real advantage. Probably it's mostly just
habit. For some reason, Lance liked them so stayed with them. I don't
think he used them this year and it didn't seem to hurt. I also
believe they use a roller cam.

Probably all correct. Compared to a sidepull brake, these centrepull
brakes allowed for a a cable routing and arms that were in the
aerodynamic "shadow" of the fork and seatstays. To put it another way,
they reduced the frontal area slightly.

Whether there was any actual aero benefit is another question. I have
not seen anyone recently use AX derailers 🙂.

Dad's old Sears bike had an Adamas AX group on it,

Yeah, there was a period when Shimano was pushing aerodynamic
EVERYTHING. Never mind that the rider is a huge sail. They even did wind
tunnel tests. I guess it makes sense for a time trialist, but I can't
see it making a difference for the average rider or even a very good rider.

The funny thing is that the aero trend came right after the
super-lightening trend. People were drilling little holes in their
components. Campy made Super Record brakes, which cost a lot more than
Record brakes. The difference was the holes in the levers. Then the aero
trend pointed out that these infinitesimally lighter brakes created more
drag. Whatever.

Some people even drilled their rims. Suicidal.

Tom

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Reingold said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Eagle Jackson said:

I'm not sure there is any real advantage. Probably it's mostly just
habit. For some reason, Lance liked them so stayed with them. I don't
think he used them this year and it didn't seem to hurt. I also
believe they use a roller cam.

Probably all correct. Compared to a sidepull brake, these centrepull
brakes allowed for a a cable routing and arms that were in the
aerodynamic "shadow" of the fork and seatstays. To put it another way,
they reduced the frontal area slightly.

Whether there was any actual aero benefit is another question. I have
not seen anyone recently use AX derailers 🙂.

Dad's old Sears bike had an Adamas AX group on it,

Yeah, there was a period when Shimano was pushing aerodynamic
EVERYTHING. Never mind that the rider is a huge sail. They even did wind
tunnel tests. I guess it makes sense for a time trialist, but I can't
see it making a difference for the average rider or even a very good rider.

Actually, there is some sense to it. Wind resistance is the most
important force on any rider at speed. The trend towards aero in the
peloton right now is mainly focused on wheels, which are the low-hanging
fruit aside from not-easily-changeable rider positioning.

Thanks to the number of bikes that are right on the edge of weight
limitations without any special parts, teams are loading up on
deep-section (relatively heavy, though relative is the key term, here)
carbon wheels for normal stages. Those things mean that if you do a
solo, run out your sprint, or even just sit in, you'll be a little bit
faster. It's probably a sensible choice for racers.

Quoted message said:

The funny thing is that the aero trend came right after the
super-lightening trend. People were drilling little holes in their
components. Campy made Super Record brakes, which cost a lot more than
Record brakes. The difference was the holes in the levers. Then the aero
trend pointed out that these infinitesimally lighter brakes created more
drag. Whatever.

The modern era allows for both insanely light and supremely aero
components. I think the new Dura-Ace cranks show some lip service being
paid to aero componentry again. Remember that in the vast majority of
riding circumstances, aero fetishism is a far more rational pathology
than weight weenieism. I think one major reason for weight weenies being
the predominant force in amateur bike projects is that you can't easily
quantify aerodynamics without a wind tunnel. That said, people have
published ways of checking your frontal area with only a good head-on
shot of your bike position and some photo editing software. Can
aeroweenies sites be far behind?

Obbike: I ride Fetish Cycle's "SAC" frame, which stands for specialized
aero component. the punchline is that every tube on the bike is
oversized round aluminum. Aero it is not.

Good enough to win tonight, though,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

Obbike: I ride Fetish Cycle's "SAC" frame, which stands for specialized
aero component. the punchline is that every tube on the bike is
oversized round aluminum. Aero it is not.

Good enough to win tonight, though,

Win what? Your wife's affections?

Thanks for the laughs and the perspectives. I enjoyed the stuff I didn't
quote, too.

--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

Ryan Cousineau said:

Actually, there is some sense to it. Wind resistance is the most
important force on any rider at speed. The trend towards aero in the
peloton right now is mainly focused on wheels, which are the low-hanging
fruit aside from not-easily-changeable rider positioning.

Thanks to the number of bikes that are right on the edge of weight
limitations without any special parts, teams are loading up on
deep-section (relatively heavy, though relative is the key term, here)
carbon wheels for normal stages. Those things mean that if you do a
solo, run out your sprint, or even just sit in, you'll be a little bit
faster. It's probably a sensible choice for racers.

Quoted message said:

The funny thing is that the aero trend came right after the
super-lightening trend. People were drilling little holes in their
components. Campy made Super Record brakes, which cost a lot more than
Record brakes. The difference was the holes in the levers. Then the aero
trend pointed out that these infinitesimally lighter brakes created more
drag. Whatever.

The modern era allows for both insanely light and supremely aero
components. I think the new Dura-Ace cranks show some lip service being
paid to aero componentry again. Remember that in the vast majority of
riding circumstances, aero fetishism is a far more rational pathology
than weight weenieism. I think one major reason for weight weenies being
the predominant force in amateur bike projects is that you can't easily
quantify aerodynamics without a wind tunnel. That said, people have
published ways of checking your frontal area with only a good head-on
shot of your bike position and some photo editing software. Can
aeroweenies sites be far behind?

Very informative. Thanks Ryan!! Can you give me a link to that
frontal area stuff? I happen to be good at coding up a storm when it
comes to image processing, would love to try my hand at this..
..

Quoted message said:

Obbike: I ride Fetish Cycle's "SAC" frame, which stands for specialized
aero component. the punchline is that every tube on the bike is
oversized round aluminum. Aero it is not.

Hahaha 🙂 Kind of like how Walmart claims that the frames of their
bikes are "hand built"...

Dan

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Reingold said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Obbike: I ride Fetish Cycle's "SAC" frame, which stands for specialized
aero component. the punchline is that every tube on the bike is
oversized round aluminum. Aero it is not.

Good enough to win tonight, though,

Win what? Your wife's affections?

It's not a miracle frame!

What I won was the World Tuesday Night Championship race:

http://www.escapevelocity.bc.ca/wtnc_results.html

Unfortunately the page is not yet updated, so you'll just have to trust
me when I claim that I won both the prime sprint and the race itself,
along with the prime sprint (and smaller placings) in the previous two
weeks.

If my calculations are correct, I should be at 16 points for the season,
putting me decisively in the lead for the Cat 4 season championship. For
all that, this week was the first race I have won since the citizen's
race that kicked off my road racing in 2003.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the laughs and the perspectives. I enjoyed the stuff I didn't
quote, too.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

In article <[email hidden]>,

Dan Lenski said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Actually, there is some sense to it. Wind resistance is the most
important force on any rider at speed. The trend towards aero in the
peloton right now is mainly focused on wheels, which are the low-hanging
fruit aside from not-easily-changeable rider positioning.

Thanks to the number of bikes that are right on the edge of weight
limitations without any special parts, teams are loading up on
deep-section (relatively heavy, though relative is the key term, here)
carbon wheels for normal stages. Those things mean that if you do a
solo, run out your sprint, or even just sit in, you'll be a little bit
faster. It's probably a sensible choice for racers.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The modern era allows for both insanely light and supremely aero
components. I think the new Dura-Ace cranks show some lip service being
paid to aero componentry again. Remember that in the vast majority of
riding circumstances, aero fetishism is a far more rational pathology
than weight weenieism. I think one major reason for weight weenies being
the predominant force in amateur bike projects is that you can't easily
quantify aerodynamics without a wind tunnel. That said, people have
published ways of checking your frontal area with only a good head-on
shot of your bike position and some photo editing software. Can
aeroweenies sites be far behind?

Very informative. Thanks Ryan!! Can you give me a link to that
frontal area stuff? I happen to be good at coding up a storm when it
comes to image processing, would love to try my hand at this..

http://www.biketechreview.com/frontalarea/kw.htm
http://www.biketechreview.com/performance/pareto.htm

As you can see, if you can develop a standardized rig and a nice
pixel-counting routine, frontal area is a pretty easy calculation from
there.

The two most important numbers for doing aero comparisons are the
frontal area and the coefficient of drag (Cd). The frontal area is what
it sounds like. The Cd is essentially an empirical measure of how well
the wind goes around a particular shape without reference to frontal
area. There's a lot more details (ooh! Reynolds numbers!) but that's the
stuff you can control.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Obbike: I ride Fetish Cycle's "SAC" frame, which stands for specialized
aero component. the punchline is that every tube on the bike is
oversized round aluminum. Aero it is not.

Hahaha 🙂 Kind of like how Walmart claims that the frames of their
bikes are "hand built"...

Hm...my FC also claims that...

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos