A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing, and US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying attention and had this to say in Velonews:
"There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success is only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then it's a failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results against the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here. Certainly, over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the podium, you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure success based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain experience and do they have success at worlds."
Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They are in the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th.
"Clot Felter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing, and US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying attention and had this to say in Velonews:
"There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success is only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then it's a failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results against the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here. Certainly, over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the podium, you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure success based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain experience and do they have success at worlds."
Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They are in the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th.
The same type of experience LANCE and Ullrich were got when they started, but didn't finish the Tour.
"Clot Felter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing, and US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying attention and had this to say in Velonews:
"There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success is only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then it's a failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results against the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here. Certainly, over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the podium, you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure success based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain experience and do they have success at worlds."
Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They are in the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th.
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The same type of experience LANCE and Ullrich were got when they started, but didn't finish the Tour.
Ullrich has never abandoned a Tour.
In Geoff's defense he mentions in another part if the interview that his interests are with the "developing younger Elite riders." He also talks a lot in the context of helping riders make the jump to top European racing.
The first guy to make the jump is never the one to hit it big.
Jonathan Page was gaining experience in Europe to come back to the US and kick everybody's butts in December ... three years straight. Maybe Geoff knows what he's talking about.
Jerry Winter Portland, OR
"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Carl Sundquist said:
"Clot Felter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing, and US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying attention and had this to say in Velonews:
"There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success is only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then it's a failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results against the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here. Certainly, over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the podium, you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure success based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain experience and do they have success at worlds."
Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They are in the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th.
Quoted message said:
The same type of experience LANCE and Ullrich were got when they started, but didn't finish the Tour.
Ullrich has never abandoned a Tour.
In Geoff's defense he mentions in another part if the interview that his interests are with the "developing younger Elite riders." He also talks a lot in the context of helping riders make the jump to top European racing.
The first guy to make the jump is never the one to hit it big.
Jonathan Page was gaining experience in Europe to come back to the US
and
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kick everybody's butts in December ... three years straight. Maybe
Geoff
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knows what he's talking about.
Jerry Winter Portland, OR
"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
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Carl Sundquist said:
"Clot Felter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing,
and
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> US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying > attention and had this to say in Velonews: > > "There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success
is
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> only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then
it's a
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> failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results
against
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> the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here.
Certainly,
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> over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the
podium,
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> you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure
success
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> based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain > experience and do they have success at worlds." > > Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They
are in
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> the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. > What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th. >
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The same type of experience LANCE and Ullrich were got when they
started,
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but didn't finish the Tour.
Ullrich has never abandoned a Tour.
In Geoff's defense he mentions in another part if the interview that his interests are with the "developing younger Elite riders." He also talks a lot in the context of helping riders make the jump to top European racing.
The first guy to make the jump is never the one to hit it big.
Bob Schwartz [email hidden]
J. Page did win Nationals, as we all know, but the butt kicking he doled out the year before was not repeated this year. I do believe that he and Ryan Trebon duked it out pretty well. And then those 2 whipped it up on pretty much everybody else. What will happen next year? Will Trebon overtake Page in Nationals? It's possible, he has finished in front if him several times over in Europe in some of the bigger races.
Jonathan Page was gaining experience in Europe to come back to the US
and
Quoted message said:
kick everybody's butts in December ... three years straight. Maybe
Geoff
Quoted message said:
knows what he's talking about.
Jerry Winter Portland, OR
"Bob Schwartz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Carl Sundquist <[email hidden]> wrote:
>"Clot Felter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... > >>A few weeks ago we had a discussion on RBR about winning, losing,
and
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>>US riders racing cyclocross in Europe. Geoff Proctor was paying >>attention and had this to say in Velonews: >> >>"There's been a lot of Internet traffic lately about how success
is
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>>only measured in results. If you're not winning the race then
it's a
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>>failure - that kind of thing. I would prefer to balance results
against
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>>the rewards of what these guys learn while they're here.
Certainly,
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>>over here, results are what matter. If you didn't make the
podium,
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>>you're not publicly seen as a success. For us though, I measure
success
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>>based on the two goals we set out up front; do the riders gain >>experience and do they have success at worlds." >> >>Can someone tell me what they are gaining experience for? They
are in
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>>the "show", right? Also, please define "success" at Worlds. >>What is the over/under for top US placing? I say 20th. >>
>The same type of experience LANCE and Ullrich were got when they
started,
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>but didn't finish the Tour.
Ullrich has never abandoned a Tour.
In Geoff's defense he mentions in another part if the interview that his interests are with the "developing younger Elite riders." He also talks a lot in the context of helping riders make the jump to top European racing.
The first guy to make the jump is never the one to hit it big.
Bob Schwartz [email hidden]
J. Page did win Nationals, as we all know, but the butt kicking he doled out the year before was not repeated this year. I do believe that he and Ryan Trebon duked it out pretty well. And then those 2 whipped it up on pretty much everybody else. What will happen next year? Will Trebon overtake Page in Nationals? It's possible, he has finished in front if him several times over in Europe in some of the bigger races.
No, Page was sick and had like 10 hours coming off about a 10 hour jet lag. I figure he needed Nationals as badly as he needed a big Euro result, so why not have the form earlier than later. If he didn't have any form in the early races, all his starts would suck the whole year, even worse than they do now.
